FH Player who wants character to BE an amulet

[Osye3]

One of my players for a new FH using 6e rules has an odd idea for his character.

His idea is that his mind\spirit has been moved into an amulet, and via the amulet he can mentally control a "host" body wearing the amulet. He wants to be able to keep control of the body for long periods of time with little or no difficulty.

Any suggestions on how to model this?

Thanks!

[jtelson]

Without more specifics - What happens to the host when he leaves?, Does he have acces to the Hosts Stats? Knowledge? Powers? etc the two first choices are Transform (Severe) or Mind Control (0-End Persistant). I beleive a Possession power is expected in the upcoming Advanced Players' Guide

[Hyper-Man]

If the host is a willing participant then this is a lot like Doctor Fate.

An easy way to model it in 5er would be to build the amulet as a highly limited Multiform (the main limitation being focus as in IIF).

Build the 'host' (characteristics, skills & other abilities) and then build the abilities that the amulet adds (different INT, EGO & PRE plus different skills and other abilities like magic?!).

[Osye3]

...What happens to the host when he leaves?, Does he have acces to the Hosts Stats? Knowledge? Powers?

The host would regain his\her body when the control is over.

The logic we are using in discussing this idea is that he has access to the physical stats, but the host mind is "suppressed" so the PC has no access to mental stats or knowledge\skills of the host. He would need access to the host physical stats since he effectively has none himself as an "inanimate" object.

One way we were looking at building it was with him buying mind control and buying all the physical characteristics as powers up to maxima, with some limitations:

Possession: Mind Control 3d6 (Human like class of minds), Telepathic (+1/4), Constant (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Cumulative (72 points; +1) (49 Active Points); Limited Class Of Minds - Only the wearer of the amulet [Single species/type of mind] (-1), No Range (-1/2)

+20 STR (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), OIF (the host)(-1/2)

If the host is a willing participant then this is a lot like Doctor Fate.

In general the host is going to be unwilling, and unknowing of what the amulet does.

[Nolgroth]

Not that I want to shoot down interesting character concepts, but my abuse alarm just pinged. If my cynical mind were to dwell on this, I would say that the player wants a character that is practically immortal/invulnerable. I mean, if the host dies, all he has to do is wait around until somebody goes "Oooh pretty!" and picks him up.

At the very least, I would require a Regeneration with the Resurrection adder and the limitation No Conscious Control added on to the character sheet. Just to reflect that, barring specific attacks against the amulet, the character is never in danger. The NCC is to reflect that the character can only be active when a blithering idiot finds an amulet on a skeleton and decides to try it on.

I would suggest a Variable Power Pool to cover the differing physical characteristics with a limitation that the values can only change when the amulet changes hands and a successful mind control is made. Easy enough to handle when the host is alive; a mental command to hand over the amulet.

I think you are on the right track with the Mind Control power.

I'm sorry if this seems sort of harsh. I have just run across too many strange concept for characters that seem some runaround to abuse. In order to keep things on the legit side, I would make the character pay for all the benefits that accompany the strange form.

If I may ask, which edition and how many points are you working with?

[Osye3]

At the very least, I would require a Regeneration with the Resurrection adder and the limitation No Conscious Control added on to the character sheet.

That is one of the things that already have for the character

I would suggest a Variable Power Pool to cover the differing physical characteristics with a limitation that the values can only change when the amulet changes hands and a successful mind control is made. Easy enough to handle when the host is alive; a mental command to hand over the amulet.

We looked at the VPP, but I also thought that making the PC buy all the physical characteristics up to maxima normal, and saying that they are unable to take advantage of characteristics that exceed that amount might work. So something like this:

+20 STR (20 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (-1), OIF (the host)(-1/2)

I'm sorry if this seems sort of harsh. I have just run across too many strange concept for characters that seem some runaround to abuse.

NP I know what you mean, but this player is one of my reliable players. He isn't into the game to screw things up or to min max. He is trustworthy with a "risky" concept.

In order to keep things on the legit side, I would make the character pay for all the benefits that accompany the strange form.

That is one of the reasons I am asking this question here. I wanted other ideas and viewpoints regarding what powers and limits should be required for this idea, to make it fair and make it work.

If I may ask, which edition and how many points are you working with?

6E (I bought the PDF\Book bundle). Well it was going to be a 175(50) but I am giving the players an extra 10 points since I didn't provide all the setting info they needed when I had them make the characters. Like the very large city the game will operate from only allows citizens to openly bare arms (swords etc) or people who have been awarded the right (perk).

[Nolgroth]

Good players are a treat.

So, believe it or not, this concept has been rolling around in my head all day long (minus an hour or two for Battlefield 2142). I have a lot of conflicting ideas so who knows which one(s) is/are good or bad.

One idea was Duplication, the duplicate being the new vessel/host. One idea was Summon. One idea was to pay for a Follower. Honestly, I am stuck on the original concept.

• Variable Power Pool for physical Characteristics.
• Buy all the "amulet's" physical and movement characteristics to 0.
• Buy extra DCV for the "amulet" to represent that it is a small target.
• Buy resistant PD and ED to represent that it is tough.
• House Rule that the amulet is for all intents and purposes like a Focus in that it has to be targeted specifically or be damaged in an Area of Effect attack.
• Maybe buy some Damage Negation, Not versus (insert weakness here)
• Buy the Regeneration > Resurrection
• Buy the Mind Control/Possession ability.
• Physical Limitation: Character cannot move or act unless actively possessing a host. Infrequently, Fully. If you intend to torture the player more often, you can bump up the frequency.
• If you still have points left over, buy some pertinent skills and other goodies.

I'll see if I can come up with some examples. I am barely familiar with 6E myself, but have plenty of time with the previous two editions (three if you count 5E Revised as its own edition).

[Alcamtar]

I agree it seems potentially abusive. But that depends on the player and the GM.

If the host body dies, does the character die? In some "possession" scenarios that's how it works. If so I would think that is an adequate limitation on the power, since the character is effectively mortal.

If the character can only be destroyed by destroying the amulet, then I'd suggest buying BODY and resistant defenses to simulate the amulet's physical characteristics. Also, "healing" damage to the amulet is likely to require a skilled jeweler do do repairs. It is likely that at some point the amulet would be subject to damage -- and if a victim's friends figure out the truth they are likely to attempt to destroy it. To that end the character should probably take some sort of "secret identity" limitation, and possibly a mystery hunted. THe character might have a Physical Limitation equivalent to "IAF".

Another question: can the amulet be suppressed or dispelled? I'm not sure how that would work.

[Hugh Neilson]

Part of the issue becomes who the character is. If the character is the amulet then, in addition to the Possession abilities, it will need its own physical stats, although many can be quite low. It needs resistant defenses and its own BOD. It probably needs a suite of automaton powers, unless the amulet itself can be Stunned or KO'd. It needs Life Support, since amulets don't breathe or eat. It needs Shrinking-like abilities for its constant reduced size.

I wonder if some kind of Multiform construct, perhaps a VPP only of Multiform, might simulate the ability to possess targets. This would have to be coupled with some means of "removing" the original host characters (say, Transform that automatically ends when the amulet, or its influence, is removed, or some kind of EDM kludge).

If the amulet is merely SFX, a multiform alone could do the trick.

[Ian Mackinder]

I also see some possibilities for abuse.

On the other hand, I also see possibilities for really scaring the #### out of the Player using this concept - and that is not a bad thing.

I assume there will be built-in safeguards against ... would it be theft OR abduction, in his case? Even so, stuff can still happen.

Anyhow, having the Amulet put into a box and/or get inadvertently buried or just lost (Dropped into a river? Or a volcano?), or introducing a high-powered baddie who likes to "collect" artifacts (the Character would surely qualify as some kind of artifact or major magic item). All these could be worrying for the PC.

Another thing to keep in mind is this. Unless the Character is the product of some incredibly rare process or event, then there will be others like him / her somewhere out there. Possibly more powerful, or with different ability sets.

[Killer Shrike]

As always, I would start by reasoning backwards from the effect, asking some questions with the intent of boxing the actual behavior in so that the appropriate mechanic(s) can be identified.

The first question that springs to my mind is...how is this different than Mind Control / Possession?

How absolute is this effect? Can the base character take over _anything_, including named characters, important NPC's, other PC's? Is there a contest of wills involved? Or are the "hosts" merely nameless custom built write-ups for the purpose of serving as hosts and really just window dressing / sfx?


Can the base character do anything when lacking a host? I.e., are they entirely inert or can they have some effect on their environment, lure a new host, etc?


Assuming we could get to the bottom of the desired effect, I would ask a few subsidiary questions:

Is the effect worth the cost? I.e. is the cost in character points to properly model the effect worth the result? If the answer is no, the player might reconsider. If the answer is not just yes, but "definitely" it might be too powerful. If yes, proceed.

Is the effect worth the complexity? Some effects, particularly when you start involving "alternate states of being", can get very complex even to the point of requiring interpretation or convention to make sense of. Such characters can slow the game down, as they are more likely to bump into unusual edge cases that require adjudication. The effect may or may not be worth the potential headaches.

Is the effect fair and / or balanced to the campaign? This one should be self explanatory. Does this effect fit the general power level of the campaign (balanced), and even if yes is it also fair to the other players or does it allow the character to do things that relegate the other pc's to second stringers...or even seem to in the eyes of the other players. I learned this one the hard way, as I've allowed really cool character concepts into play under the piloting of players I respected / trusted and personally felt that the character(s) were both fair and balanced only to discover that one or more other players felt otherwise. Now, you can't please everyone all of the time and its part of the Gm's job to make hard decisions, but it doesn't hurt to consult the other players about a possibly problematic character concept and at least give them an opportunity to have a say.

[Ice9]

• Variable Power Pool for physical Characteristics.
• Buy all the "amulet's" physical and movement characteristics to 0.
• Buy extra DCV for the "amulet" to represent that it is a small target.
• Buy resistant PD and ED to represent that it is tough.
• House Rule that the amulet is for all intents and purposes like a Focus in that it has to be targeted specifically or be damaged in an Area of Effect attack.
• Maybe buy some Damage Negation, Not versus (insert weakness here)
• Buy the Regeneration > Resurrection
• Buy the Mind Control/Possession ability.

These two seem to conflict. If the amulet is actually possessing people (not just as the SFX for a Multiform, for instance), then why would it have any STR/DEX? Personally, I'd do it one of two ways:


A) High Risk, High Reward:
The amulet is a character with no STR/DEX, very small size, probably the automaton powers (takes only BODY, no hit locations), and a major physical limitation (immobile). It has the powers Clinging (to keep from falling off when the host goes flying), Possession (a BoECV Transform, Major, only on host), and Mind Link (only to people wearing the amulet).

On the plus side, you can control anyone, even those with unique abilities.
On the down side, you can no guarantee that there will be anyone available to control, or that someone doesn't grab the amulet away from them (although Clinging will at least make that non-trivial).


B) Playing it Safe
The possession is mostly SFX. You get a Multiform, with one form being the amulet, and the other being a possessed person. The possessed form has OIF (available host) to enter. The "possessed person" form should probably have a limitation on their physical stats (Only up to level of Host), and maybe a small VPP to represent different abilities the host may have. Also, Ressurection (Only if killed in Possessed form, not in Amulet form).

On the plus side, with the host effectively being a focus, you have a reasonable expectation to usually have one, and you don't have to defend the amulet separately.
On the down side, you might not have access to the abilities of an unusually strong host, and the "host" isn't really gone, unless you link an EDM in there.

[PhilFleischmann]

How often does the character change hosts? If it's not that often (he keeps the same host for many game sessions, and changing hosts is a "special occasion"), then you might just call it SFX - "My mind is in the amulet, instead of my skull." And every once in a while, he can rebuild his physical abilities every once in a while to reflect that he's in a new body.

Then add a few things to reflect what he is:

Complications - must enslave someone to live.
Powers - Resurrection, as Nolgroth said.

Assuming he can't just take over a significant enemy and "become" him, or a fellow PC. I'm assuming all the hosts are NPCs of convenience rather than significant foes or people of importance; that the enslaved host is of little consequence.

If the host is a real enemy (I take over his mind and them make him kill himself), or someone with game-shaping power (I take over the body of the king and the whole kingdom must obey me), then you'll need to actually buy the Mind Control.

[Vondy]

What about Summon "Host" with apropos power modifiers attached?

[Vondy]

Incidentally, the character concept reminds me of Malice from the X-Men comics (a looooooong time ago).