What powers frustrate u & disrupt your campaigns?

[Mystendanian]

This is kind of a spin-off from my other post, "Would U allow this?", but I would like to pose this question to all you GM's out there...

What powers do your PC's have in your campaign that you always end up arguing over or find very unbalancing in your campaigns? And, what have you done to compromise on the powers? Give specific breakdowns of the powers please and the arguements regarding them.

[Supreme]

Great topic.

For me the power most disruptive to the current campaign is Danger Sense. Primarily, I keep forgetting to roll for it. I think this is because this is the first player I've had in years with this power. More disruptive than that to me are DNPCs. Not a power, I know, but they're just an annoying detail I don't have a lot of practice with.

[Monolith]

Precognition is always the hardest power for me to deal with. Trying to balance a sense of mystery in the game against someone who can look into the future and "see" who the villain is and what he is going to do can be a pain in the butt. It is pretty much the same for Postcognition where the player can "see" what happened in the area during the incident they might be investigating. I have basically just banned the power in my game to avoid all the "I would have seen that" arguments.

[Nucleon]

Precognition, Postcognition, and that god awful rules for Multiform and Duplication at 5 pts for each additionnal form.

I end up biffing out the first two, and fix the later's price to 1 for 10 in the second form after the prime, 1 for 20 for the tird, and so on.

[RDU Neil]

Strangly, yes... Hand Attacks are a problem because they are subtle. On paper, they look quite balanced... I mean, they are no different than an Energy Blast, right?

Unfortunately, no. Even with new, 5th Edition way of buying them, HAs quickly drive the Damage Class of attacks beyond the average for the campaign. The ability to add your STR to the damage done is just a huge advantage (especially since STR is so undercosted in the game.)

To this end, Hand Killing Attacks are also a bit unbalancing... but for some reason, my players look at a 2d6 HKA, and quickly see that it is really 3d6 to 4d6 Killing, and keep themselves in check.

Hand attacks just look so innocuous, that thirty points for 10d6 doesn't LOOK like much... until you realize that is a 25d6!!!!! attack with your 75 STR brick. (That's an exaggeration, but not much of one. It would easily fall within my campaigns average as two separate powers, but once used as intended, is WAY over powered.)

The fact is, HA should be, at least, four real cost per die, if not five. The ability to add your STR to the damage is just much bigger than is credited by the point cost. (Same could be said of HKA, again.)

As a GM, I just always have to check these two powers, closely.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by RDU Neil
Hand attacks just look so innocuous, that thirty points for 10d6 doesn't LOOK like much... until you realize that is a 25d6!!!!! attack with your 75 STR brick. (That's an exaggeration, but not much of one. It would easily fall within my campaigns average as two separate powers, but once used as intended, is WAY over powered.)

If your dice of damage are limited to 14 DC, as FREd suggests, then it really does not matter whether those 14 DCs come from STR, HTH Attacks, or something else like velocity from Stretching. The only way that 14 DC cap can be exceeded is with certain combat maneuvers (Haymaker, Move-Through, etc).

[BarryB]

It's hard to say. I think almost any power can be abused somehow. I've had problems with flight, running, energy blasts, and other powers.

I think defining the special effects carefully is important. That helps to avoid some of the problems that I've had with things like "I've got 12" of flight, usable on a surface. That means I can run on this frictionless surface. because it's flight and doesn't depend on having friction." (Example made up avoid any member in my current group)

I'm tempted sometimes to make everyone have "GM discretion" as a disad on every single power and characteristic.

[RDU Neil]

Originally posted by Monolith
If your dice of damage are limited to 14 DC, as FREd suggests, then it really does not matter whether those 14 DCs come from STR, HTH Attacks, or something else like velocity from Stretching. The only way that 14 DC cap can be exceeded is with certain combat maneuvers (Haymaker, Move-Through, etc).

But I've never needed caps on DCs before... because most of the time, point costs balance out. Put more points into attack, you will be vulnerable in other areas.

HAs and HKAs just give you more bang for you buck, because EVERYONE has at least 10 pts. of STR free... so both those powers start out with +2 DC... to their effect, for no points.

I'm actually trying a DC limit in part of my campaign, simply because of HAs... and I've never had to do this, before.

This is just my experience, and it is only recently become a problem. Others may never have an issue.

[Gary]

Originally posted by RDU Neil
Strangly, yes... Hand Attacks are a problem because they are subtle. On paper, they look quite balanced... I mean, they are no different than an Energy Blast, right?

Unfortunately, no. Even with new, 5th Edition way of buying them, HAs quickly drive the Damage Class of attacks beyond the average for the campaign. The ability to add your STR to the damage done is just a huge advantage (especially since STR is so undercosted in the game.)

To this end, Hand Killing Attacks are also a bit unbalancing... but for some reason, my players look at a 2d6 HKA, and quickly see that it is really 3d6 to 4d6 Killing, and keep themselves in check.

Hand attacks just look so innocuous, that thirty points for 10d6 doesn't LOOK like much... until you realize that is a 25d6!!!!! attack with your 75 STR brick. (That's an exaggeration, but not much of one. It would easily fall within my campaigns average as two separate powers, but once used as intended, is WAY over powered.)

The fact is, HA should be, at least, four real cost per die, if not five. The ability to add your STR to the damage is just much bigger than is credited by the point cost. (Same could be said of HKA, again.)

As a GM, I just always have to check these two powers, closely.

Remember, HA is based on Str with the no figured characteristics limitation. It's not even as useful as that, since it can't be used for lifting or breaking out of grabs or casual str.

Allowing a 75 str brick to have a 10d6 HA would be like allowing a 125 str brick in your campaign. If you wouldn't allow the 125 str, you shouldn't allow the 75 str with 10d6 HA.

[Acroyear]

None. Sometimes the GM will get frustrated if there's a totally invisible desolid guy running around... but he's not exactly doing anything like that anyway so it's not really an issue.

As for hand attacks... uh, just buy STR, not to figured and not only do you get more damage, but more lifting ability, better grabs, etc for the same cost. Raising the price of hand attacks wouldn't do much except change the way people buy extra HtH damage (in fact, HA is already not cost effective in comparison). Seems the problem is that GMs are being unattentive. If I see a HA then I look at the Strength to see the total damage. I don't just assume "oh, 10d6 HA. He does 10d6" or whatever. I don't see what's so complex about it.

Of course, the common Str cost complaint has never been a problem for us, either.

[tesuji]

Well, understand that in general i head off the problems by saying no to things i see as too problematic...

So precog and postcog are usually not allowed unless limited somehow.

VPPs (not a power but...) are in my experience the most abusive and disruptive in game terms unless highly restrictive. its not the combat impact but the strategic impact. need to move the party across the state... have magicman dial up a flying carpet. need a scout... have magic man dial up improved invisibility. need to go talk to the hostages in the shed... have magicman whip up a turn the martial artists into a dog spell. i do not allow broad power VPPs in my games anymore.

Of the powers that normally get in under the wire... telepathy. Of course, every so often if the villain is evil enough he feeds his thugs misinformation and hopes they will get telepathied... but in general it turns every ally or minion of the BGs into a serious security risk... same for te PCs too.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Monolith
Precognition is always the hardest power for me to deal with. Trying to balance a sense of mystery in the game against someone who can look into the future and "see" who the villain is and what he is going to do can be a pain in the butt. It is pretty much the same for Postcognition where the player can "see" what happened in the area during the incident they might be investigating. I have basically just banned the power in my game to avoid all the "I would have seen that" arguments.

I've found requiring the "vague" (or unclear) limitation for this power - or No Conscious Control - works wonders.

It can still be used to add flavor (or to serve as a plot device), but doesn't kill the story.

[JmOz]

The most abusive character I have ever seen was named Golem, an Earth Elemental:

10" Tunneling (tunnel closes after)

50 Strength

Grabbed poor guy

moved 10" underground

Left guy

Returned

repeated

Any power can be abusive...

On Pre and Post con I require lims to make it inacurate and unreliable, I also strongly recomend limited Clairsentience as well...

[Crowd]

Originally posted by Nucleon
Precognition, Postcognition, and that god awful rules for Multiform and Duplication at 5 pts for each additionnal form.

I end up biffing out the first two, and fix the later's price to 1 for 10 in the second form after the prime, 1 for 20 for the tird, and so on.

These are definitely things that need to be limited by the GM. I don't allow reliable, detailed Pre- or Postcog. Vague, unreliable is OK. For Multiform and Duplication I count the highest point total character as the base and add 1/5th of the point totals of any duplicates or multiforms. This gets rid of the possibility of the "million man march" of Duplicates.

[Storn]

I'm with Neil on Hand Attacks.

I've got a character, who for 1 pt, was a mystical martial artist who could routinely dish out 20d6. 14d6 occasionally for the current game would be fine. 20d6 is ridiculous.

The problem is subtle. HA often get put into Multipowers. Hey, if an EB can be put in, why not a HA. Well...IMO, Strength is already too cheap (seperate arguement)... added to the fact that this is a STrength derived power with limitations makes it cheaper, added to the fact it can legally go into a Multi... that is overwhelmingly ridiculous.

I am voluntarily reducing my characters HA because it is beyond the scope of the game to deal with. My 500+ character does NOT have a 20d6 attack (a 15d6 attack, yes, but he goes up against real heavies)