Powered Suits as Vehicles

[rentauri]

I am crafting a fantasy world to run and one of the ideas I wanted was magic to be supremely powerful but to counter this the great Knight that adventures in the land does not do it on a proud steed but instead rides a powerful magical suit of armor, called the Golemsuit. Being that these Golemsuits are more standardized in creation and not custom built (but they can be customized and improved upon over time) I thought it better to buy it as a Vehicle since the player is 'forced' to start with the standard unit and improve upon it later. There are some other reasons as well but that was a big one.

I can't seem to find anything in the entry for Vehicles about this but would the character's stats stack with the Golemsuit or would they use the suits stats and not touch the players stats? I could understand if it went either way but I was trying to see if something more official existed.

[CrosshairCollie]

If I'm reading your question right, the answer is 'depends'.

For STR, you use the vehicle's stat. A 10 STR character in a 60 STR vehicle gets to use the 60 STR.

For DEX and SPD, you use whichever is lower of the character's or the vehicle's. A regular Sunday driver like you or I can't use a NASCAR hotrod at maximum performance, and Jimmie Johnson can't use his skills at their utmost in a Prius.

[Escafarc]

Typicaly you use which ever is lower of the two. If the stats of the "suit" are higher than the characters the character should buy up his stats with the limitation Only with Suit. There's an example of a set of Power Armor as a vehicle either in the 5E UV or 5E Vehicle Sourcebook.

[BNakagawa]

Typicaly you use which ever is lower of the two. If the stats of the "suit" are higher than the characters the character should buy up his stats with the limitation Only with Suit. There's an example of a set of Power Armor as a vehicle either in the 5E UV or 5E Vehicle Sourcebook.

that approach doesn't seem reasonable. I don't want to spend a ton of points for my crane operator to buy 90 str only when driving his crane...

[Escafarc]

that approach doesn't seem reasonable. I don't want to spend a ton of points for my crane operator to buy 90 str only when driving his crane...

That's what it says in the example I listed above.

[steamteck]

That's what it says in the example I listed above.

Actually I interpeted from the example on page 83 of the Ultimate vehicle, that just the DEX and SPD are bought that way and only if they exceed his normal while in the suit. the suits STR is what powers the STR. If it was meant the other way I agree not a reasonable approach at all.

[Zeropoint]

Actually I interpeted from the example on page 83 of the Ultimate vehicle, that just the DEX and SPD are bought that way and only if they exceed his normal while in the suit.

As I understand it: the vehicle and the operator are two separate entities, each acting on their own SPD and DEX. If the drive and vehicle have the same speed, everything is cool . . . when your action comes up, you drive the vehicle. If you have a higher SPD than the vehicle you're driving, then you have an extra action to use; i.e. driving the vehicle does not occupy your full attention and therefore you have time to do something else. Imagine, for instance, driving the Shuttle Transport Vehicle . . . that thing probably has a SPD of 1/2. Point it in the right direction, go make a sandwich . . .

On the other hand, a highly responsive and fast vehicle might have a higher SPD than you do. This, according to my understanding of the rules, gives you two options: First, you can drive the vehicle on each of your phases and no more; in this case you are not going as fast as the vehicle could go with a better driver. Your other option is to let the vehicle operate at its full SPD--the problem with this being that when it has a phase and you don't, it's moving but you can't control it! Better hope you got it pointed somewhere safe on your last phase!

Finally, this is where buying SPD or DEX limited to "only when in vehicle" comes in. It represents training, practice, or just natural aptitude for driving, and allows you to operate a vehicle with a higher SPD than your own at its full potential.

[rentauri]

What would be a reasonable Limitation for that be in 6e? I was thinking something around -1 or -1.25 being that the Vehicle is a giant Obvious Focus.

[Killer Shrike]

Vehicles are well covered in the rules, there is no mystery involved. Just read the applicable Vehicles, Vehicle Combat, and Combat Piloting / Driving skills.

The vehicle has its own stats and is a separate construct. When using the vehicle's to move something you use it's STR, not the pilots or passengers. When the vehicle is attacked you use its various defense and body stats not the pilots or passengers. A vehicle with high SPD and DEX is very responsive, but individual pilot's may not be able to pilot the vehicle effectively.

The limited SPD / DEX trick is just to allow a "pilot" character who is supposed to be a bad ass pilot to purchase limited SPD / DEX only for piloting a vehicle. Thus you could make Maverick or Iceman and out of a cockpit they are not also quicker than Bruce Lee and more agile than an olympic gymnast. Really, IMO, driving / piloting skill should be used to overcome this mechanical meta consideration, but that's a Heroism for you, stat's are generally more important.

Vehicle DEF used as armor is better than worn armor as it stops stun outright. However, when the DEF is exceeded and the vehicle takes damage it starts to breakdown.

You can use Vehicle rules for mecha or power armor, and i've got some example character's on my site where I do that. It works ok. However it is more complicated and difficult to manage for the player and especially the GM.

[steamteck]

You can use Vehicle rules for mecha or power armor, and i've got some example character's on my site where I do that. It works ok. However it is more complicated and difficult to manage for the player and especially the GM.

Actually I like the powered armor vehicle construct and really don't find it any more complex to manage myself. a Actually simplfies some things IMO.

[JmOz]

The issue to me of power armor as a vehicle is the defence issues, having said that, it is more a matter of being aware of the issues and keeping an eye on it...

[megaplayboy]

The issue to me of power armor as a vehicle is the defence issues, having said that, it is more a matter of being aware of the issues and keeping an eye on it...

Pegging the right Defense level is pretty important. If the campaign average DC is X, then you probably want the defense to be at least X, otherwise the vehicle will be trashed within a turn or two. Higher than X+2 for defense, and the character inside the vehicle is nigh-invulnerable to most conventional attacks, likely going whole fights without taking damage.

[steamteck]

I think the "personal defense" limitation pretty much solves that myself.

[Fearghus]

First things first... This doesn't sound like a vehicle to me it sounds like a focus, or some kind of multi-form. I'd be very wary of allowing a character to build it as a vehicle much less forcing them to. Points spent on vehicles are significantly cheaper than points spent on your character. They are cheaper for a simple reason... You are not expected to have your vehicle with you at all times. Vehicles should have logical limitations. You can't remain inside them indefinitely, they may require maintenance or fuel, they are too large to be brought inside most building, their powers can not be pushed, they don't naturally have limbs or fine manipulators, characters can not perform most physical skills while inside a vehicle etc. That is not to say you can't build a giant automaton vehicle, but I would be very hesitant to let a player build it that way, and if I did I would make them pay for EVERY SINGLE THING that vehicle can do.

Second... What's the point in playing HERO if you want all knights to be the same? It seems to me that is counter to what HERO intends to accomplish. play D&D if you want to pigeon hole your players. Create a template for a knights powers as a launching pad, but I would once again be very wary of forcing a huge template onto any character.

OK Off my soap box now.

Having said all that Vehicles use the vehicle's characteristics. As was pointed out above Dex and Spd are special you use the character's Dex or the vehicle's Dex which ever is LOWER, and the same goes for speed. As I said above vehicles don't automatically get many of the things characters get. Leaping, and Swimming Movement, limbs with hands on the end, they don't heal automatically, senses... In fact a real argument could be made that being in a vehicle can hamper your senses. So when building your golem suit you have to be very careful that you build it properly and completely, and you are not letting your player have powers like life support or enhanced senses for free.

[rentauri]

First things first... This doesn't sound like a vehicle to me it sounds like a focus, or some kind of multi-form. I'd be very wary of allowing a character to build it as a vehicle much less forcing them to. Points spent on vehicles are significantly cheaper than points spent on your character. They are cheaper for a simple reason... You are not expected to have your vehicle with you at all times. Vehicles should have logical limitations. You can't remain inside them indefinitely, they may require maintenance or fuel, they are too large to be brought inside most building, their powers can not be pushed, they don't naturally have limbs or fine manipulators, characters can not perform most physical skills while inside a vehicle etc. That is not to say you can't build a giant automaton vehicle, but I would be very hesitant to let a player build it that way, and if I did I would make them pay for EVERY SINGLE THING that vehicle can do.

I don't like the idea of a multiform and I did think think seriously of having it set to be a Focus and using it as that however I wanted the Golemsuit to be self-contained, its own Defenses, Body, Endurance and abilities to be wholly its own. Needing to be re-fueled and repaired as it operates with the user as well appealed to me. I also wanted those that started with it to start with base models that are commonly available units and then the players put points, money and time into customizing, modifying or improving the units (or hire someone to do it for them). With those two main ideas I felt that the Golemsuit as a vehicle fit what I wanted more then the Focus.

Second... What's the point in playing HERO if you want all knights to be the same? It seems to me that is counter to what HERO intends to accomplish. play D&D if you want to pigeon hole your players. Create a template for a knights powers as a launching pad, but I would once again be very wary of forcing a huge template onto any character.

Because I don't the idea of a character with no magical (or whatever) power in the world being able to keep up with those that do without something giving him an equalizer (sorta like champions throws out the occasional hero that uses powered armor). If everyone wants to play one of the huge variety of characters in the world capable of manipulating magic (the power of my world) that is fine however like many fantasy settings this is a pre-generated spell list with the ability to for the spell casters to create their own spells with research.

Those that don't have the ability to manipulate magic but do want to keep up with those that do have two real alternatives (at this time, may expand it later) 1) Ride a Golemsuit and then either modify and improve it, if they can, or hire someone to work on it themselves. 2) Use magical items, runes crafted in flesh or the like.

If the players want I can run a low magic setting in this world and simply not have the characters deal with the magical items. All that said I am excepting them to play some type of magical character but I wanted flesh out this side in case someone was interested in it. Besides I have a soft spot for Mecha and thought this would be an interesting addition even if it is never used.

Having said all that Vehicles use the vehicle's characteristics. As was pointed out above Dex and Spd are special you use the character's Dex or the vehicle's Dex which ever is LOWER, and the same goes for speed. As I said above vehicles don't automatically get many of the things characters get. Leaping, and Swimming Movement, limbs with hands on the end, they don't heal automatically, senses... In fact a real argument could be made that being in a vehicle can hamper your senses. So when building your golem suit you have to be very careful that you build it properly and completely, and you are not letting your player have powers like life support or enhanced senses for free.

I have a set of pre-generated items that the suit needs such as lifesupport, END reserve, ground movement and mind link (only with other golemsuits) for communication. I was using the Hero designer and the 6e2 both said that ground movement based was 12m and I didn't see anything listed about needing to purchase limbs but since I missed the entire thin on how DEX and SPD work I could have missed that section easily.