2012 Release Schedule

[Steve Long]

A little ways upthread someone was asking about the Hero System Vehicle Sourcebook. Wouldn't it be relatively easy to kickstart HSV (and maybe other popular 5th edition books as well) because you won't have to rewrite tons of new material? I realize that there are certain things that would be updated (builds, maybe a handful of new rules or clarifications, etc.), but having a lot of the content of the prior edition ready at hand means less research and writing, and hence, lower labor costs on the kickstarter overall. Heck, for something like a vehicle sourcebook, there are stock image libraries that can get you much of the art needed relatively cheaply. If nothing else, just updating the rules and releasing the same material doesn't seem all that intensive. Is it likely that we could see the core library completed relatively cheaply?

HSV would certainly be easier to write/create than a book written entirely from scratch. But that doesn't mean it's easy. Take it from the guy who converted 330-some villains for CV -- reworking character sheets for a new edition of the rules, even allowing for judicious and clever use of automation, is quite a chore.

What it really all boils down to, as I've said before, is this: is the book likely to make money, in light of the costs involved to complete it? Hero has to pay me to "write" the book, buy at least some new art for it, print it, etc., etc. All that's a pretty hefty chunk of change. So, does the perceived customer demand justify going to that effort?

One of the great things about Kickstarter is that if Hero chose to try one for the HSV, it would answer the question of customer demand definitively, and in advance. So there's no risk of losing a whole lot of money. However, as I've also mentioned before, preparing, launching, and managing a Kickstarter is not "free." Hero doesn't have to pay Kickstarter to launch a project, but the time and effort involved has a non-zero cost. So Hero has to ask itself, what projects are the most likely to repay that cost by succeeding? I can't speak to Hero's official views on the subject.

However, I do feel safe in saying that if you want to see a particular book -- like HSV -- then saying so in a polite, public manner (as several of you have been) is a great way to demonstrate that there's at least some consumer demand for that book. (OTOH, making insulting comments about existing books, the work ethics of the people involved, the company, or related matters generally isn't.) Similarly, if Hero were to run a poll seeking fans' input as to what book they should Kickstarter next, be sure to vote!

[Steve Long]

[Several fans mention Kickstartering CV3. Teflon Billy agrees, and goes on to say:]

For projects such as this, which I realize this may be the only one left of this kind, where the book has already been written and layed out even. Just initiate the Kickstarter on it, with a generous lead time (90-120days) with whatever goal DoJ feels is necessary economically and see if it can garner enough support to be published.

I understand with projects that have not been produced that there is an opportunity cost to putting them up as a Kickstarter project, regardless whether than reach their funding goal, but I fail to see what the risk or cost would be for a project such as Villains 3 that has already been completed (production-wise) and I only see is an opportunity to generate funds.

You could even have a teir or two that directly encourages the sale of the other two volumes of the Villains series (at whatever is considered a reasonable price for bundling them to induce people to pay in to the Kickstarter.)

I can't speak officially for Hero Games, but I think I can address some of these points.

First, I would be willing to bet good money that if Hero decides to do more Kickstarters (and I can't see why it wouldn't), that CV3 is very likely to be the next one they try.

Second, while it is true that Kickstartering a book that's already been written, laid out, illustrated, etc. is easier than doing one from scratch, there are a lot of factors that need to be taken into account that I don't think some of you are considering. One, printing hardcover color books is extremely expensive compared to a b&w softcover book of the same size. That means having to raise a lot more money, which makes success via KS much less likely. And as I said above, preparing and managing a Kickstarter has a cost; if success seems less likely, Hero has to consider whether it's worth incurring that cost.

Two, that's just talking about the printing costs. If Hero wants to fully recoup its costs for producing CV3, it has to calculate what I was paid during the time I wrote it (and to some extent what Darren and Jason were paid, since it all factors into the cost of goods). And then there's shipping -- hardcover color books are heavier, so it costs more to ship them. It all adds up to a lot of money.

Three, the fact that the book's already been written means that some rewards Hero might want to offer to encourage Kickstarter donations aren't possible. For example, Hero can't include "help Steve make up a character and put it in the book!", because the book's done. There are workarounds -- for example, a PDF like the one we're doing for BotE backers -- but for a book like CV3 that's definitely a consolation prize rather than the full magilla. This could potentially inhibit large pledges that might otherwise be available.

Four, because CV3 has been available in PDF for a year now, people who just want the PDF have probably already bought it. That means they probably won't pledge to support the Kickstarter. OTOH, Hero also has to consider that some people may not have bought CV1 and CV2 because they want to buy all three books at once; that makes it possible to create a reward tier for "pledge $X and get all three volumes!". It's a question of trying to devise reasonable estimates of how many people fall into each camp, and how that may affect the success of a Kickstarter.

So -- while I personally have no doubt there will be a CV3 Kickstarter at some point, probably a few months down the line once the BotE money has been received and BotE itself has been printed, it's not necessarily the cakewalk it might seem to be. As with any major business decision, there are a lot of considerations involved.

[Goradin]

Thanks for heads up, Steve. I will put down money for a hard copy. I don't care for PDF's at all. I would pay $100 alone for the book.

[Hugh Neilson]

Given the changes at Hero, perhaps this thread should no longer be sticky?

[CorPse]

Given the changes at Hero, perhaps this thread should no longer be sticky?

There's certainly some sense in that...

... but I would love to see what the plans are for 2012, even if it is for a much reduced production schedule.

[megaplayboy]

There's certainly some sense in that...

... but I would love to see what the plans are for 2012, even if it is for a much reduced production schedule.

I dunno. DDC is coming up this weekend, traditionally they roll out their plans. Maybe even with the huge upheaval, they could still lay out a more modest set of plans next week?

[CorPse]

I'd love to see plans of any kind. Perhaps we will know more in the post DDC world.

[Lord Liaden]

The thread does make a good reference, though, for projects that Hero Games was looking seriously at before the downsizing. Implicitly those have a better chance of ultimately getting the green light than other things we fans might suggest.

[megaplayboy]

You can throw in Time Travel Hero, Legendary Hero, Stormlords, Dark Champions 6th ed., Golden Age Champions and Silver Age Champions. I think Darren mentioned a couple other projects too, but that's probably 2-3 years' worth of material given the current constraints.

[Darren Watts]

My understanding is that Jason will do a seminar at DDC talking about the 3rd-party Hero projects coming this year (and even further out) that he knows about, from Steve, myself, and the various other licensees like Blackwyrm, D3, etc. I'd bet he'll also post that info here on the boards at some point. dw

[Steve Long]

Implicitly those have a better chance of ultimately getting the green light than other things we fans might suggest.

Well, it's true that those are books Hero has thought about and at least made back-of-envelope sorts of plans for. But while I can't speak for the company officially, I don't think that means it's not open to other ideas. If there's extensive fan support for something that hasn't been considered previously, or that hasn't been "green-lighted" for some reason, I'm sure Hero would take that into consideration.

[Myrlyn]

I've gotta say, I'm a bit disappointed with the line of releases... Of those listed the only one that really caught my eye (and is a definite purchase) is HERO System Vehicles. The others either are interesting to me, or are just updates of my 5th edition books.

[CorPse]

I'm still curious to know if there's a revised "official" 2012 Release Schedule.

[gojira]

I'm still curious to know if there's a revised "official" 2012 Release Schedule.

See if this DunDraCon report clarifies up-coming releases for you:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/show...Seminar-Report

[kehrer1701]

sorry, I must have missed it. But do we know when the first core rulebook is coming back into "new" print status?