Physical Limitation: Can Do No Evil

**Acroyear** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:12 AM

Joe is a galactic criminal who also happens to be real powerful. However, since his rehabilitation hasn't been "taking" he has been fitted with implants that prevent him from taking any action that has been pre-programmed as evil by the data stored in them.

He can't beat information out of a mook. He can't murder. He can't steal.

Now, you can trick him with illusions... or he can do something on accident, but you can't Mind Control him into it or anything like that. It's not a matter of his opinion of morality, but if you make a baby look like a seriel killer with an illusion, he can blast it. But you can't just make him blast a baby if he recognizes it as a baby. Basically, he can't do anything of the sort "on purpose" (just like you can't mind control someone without legs to kick someone).

To take it further, he may have another implant (or additional program) that requires him to do good or right wrongs. It's not a choice, he is forced to do so no matter what.

Whatcha think?

**ZootSoot** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by Acroyear
Joe is a galactic criminal who also happens to be real powerful. However, since his rehabilitation hasn't been "taking" he has been fitted with implants that prevent him from taking any action that has been pre-programmed as evil by the data stored in them.

He can't beat information out of a mook. He can't murder. He can't steal.

Now, you can trick him with illusions... or he can do something on accident, but you can't Mind Control him into it or anything like that. It's not a matter of his opinion of morality, but if you make a baby look like a seriel killer with an illusion, he can blast it. But you can't just make him blast a baby if he recognizes it as a baby. Basically, he can't do anything of the sort "on purpose" (just like you can't mind control someone without legs to kick someone).

To take it further, he may have another implant (or additional program) that requires him to do good or right wrongs. It's not a choice, he is forced to do so no matter what.

Whatcha think?

I think you want to break this into a series of specific limitations, else you are going to spend hours out of every game arguing whether something falls into its parameters or not. (And you'll get more points for it that way

)

**JohnTaber** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:15 AM

Sounds fine to me. I would build these as Physical Limitations instead of Psych Limitations but other than that it should be fine. I have an NPC that is a demon and has similar restrictions. He is being forced into action by powers out of his control. SImilar situation.

**Talon** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:18 AM

Firstly, I would clarify how "evil" is defined to avoid ugly "discussions" in-game.

Secondly, if this is a PC, I would reduce the value of the Limitation greatly due to the "can't Mind Control me to do evil" effect -- purchasing immunity to such Mind Controls should cost something.

**Acroyear** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:21 AM

Well, I have it as 2 (can do no evil and must right wrongs) because just because you are out there righting wrongs, doesn't mean you don't disintigrate bad guys and beat muggers into a pulp.

Also trying to simulate that they were 2 different parts of an influence outside of his control. I don't recall ever being involved in a hook with a partial phys lim repression...but I figured if separate it might be interesting if one of the two broke (a vicious galactic thug who "must right wrongs" isn't going to be a boyscout in his methods).

Maybe I'll throw some amnesia in there (failed attempt to alter his personality into a good person) so that even he thinks he's a super moral guy...

"What do you mean I eat infants?!"

**Blue** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:25 AM

I don't understand the "You can't mind control him into it" aspect. I can see that's why you took it as a physical limitation rather than psychological (Because even someone with claustrophobia can be mind controlled into climbing into a crate, but someone with no legs can't be mind-controlled into walking). I just don't understand why they can't be compelled against their "programming".

Someone with a psychological limitation "Can't do evil" would get a certain number of points. Someone with the physical limitation of the same name would get 5pts less, I would think, because it's less limiting. The only case where I would call it even would be if, say, the character tries to do evil but the GM stops him due to the physical limit and the character loses that action as a result of his programming stopping him from acting.

But there may be some aspect of physical limit that I'm overlooking that makes it just as limiting in this case as a psych.

**Acroyear** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Geoff Speare
Secondly, if this is a PC, I would reduce the value of the Limitation greatly due to the "can't Mind Control me to do evil" effect -- purchasing immunity to such Mind Controls should cost something.

One of the reasons I was asking for opinions and explained that aspect. He can still be mind controlled, just not to do anything evil, himself.

However, we don't diminish the value of "Phys: Blind" if you can't see images or flashes, aren't affected by darkness, and target that invisible guy like anyone else nor "deaf" if you can't hear a Mind Control command (not all of them are telepathic).

"Evil" would be in a sort of golden age morality kind of way. He can still bust into villain's lairs, fight with them, etc... but he's not torturing people by hanging them off buildings, being violent beyond need ("I hit him again! The bastid!"), etc

**FlyBoy** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:28 AM

In a one shot, I had a character who was resurrected by God herself. He had a susceptibility that would go off anytime he broke one of the 10 commandments. Perhaps susceptibility would work better for the character than a psych lim. Anytime he does something evil, the implants give him a shock, or he has "Clockwork Orange" type nausea, or something similar...

**Blue** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:31 AM

That's pretty good, Fly. Aversion therapy, like getting an electrical shock each time you try to smoke a cigarette.

**Acroyear** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:35 AM

Some examples I thought of that might help demonstrate my idea:

Simon Phoenix couldn't shoot Dr. Cocteau no matter how much he was willing to in Demolition Man.

Robocop had that hidden directive in the first flick concerning senior officers of OCP.

That sort of thing.

**Acroyear** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:36 AM

Not a bad idea, at all, FlyBoy

**FlyBoy** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:40 AM

Thank ye, Blue and Acroyear.

**Talon** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Acroyear
One of the reasons I was asking for opinions and explained that aspect. He can still be mind controlled, just not to do anything evil, himself.

Right -- but a villain who says "Attack [or kill] your friends!" will have his command fail, because that would be Evil. Instant Mental Defense.

However, we don't diminish the value of "Phys: Blind" if you can't see images or flashes, aren't affected by darkness, and target that invisible guy like anyone else nor "deaf" if you can't hear a Mind Control command (not all of them are telepathic).

Actually, I would say that those things are taken into consideration, but the overwhelming frequency of the disad pretty much subsumes those things.

For Phys Lim: Does No Evil, unless you're playing in a villainous game, the Mind Control scenario is much more likely relative to the frequency with which the character would want to do evil but cannot -- especially if he has no problems with other people doing evil (e.g., Simon's method of circumventing his mental block in Demolition Man). Thus, the reduction should be significant.

**Acroyear** · Feb 26th, '03, 10:55 AM

Good point. I'm not sure it really is, though, Geoff, because the value of many physicals (blind, deaf, etc) is the same if you are playing soap opera, secret agents, fantasy, or supers from what I've seen. The frequency of free protections they might offer varies wildly by setting (psychs, too...it's harder to mind control someone who is "Devoted to opposing injustice" to do something bad than someone who doesn't have such a psych... yet psychs like that maintain their value from genre to genre).

It's certainly a healthy way to look at it, however. Would you suggest Infrequent/Total? Or reduce it even further based on your take on it?

The player in question, however, has earned the nickname "Body Count" and, uh, a lot of that count isn't the bad guys... so I'm sure he'll want to do the bad stuff often. The disad is kind of a way of self policing, perhaps, in addition to being an interesting background thingy.

**tiger** · Feb 26th, '03, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by Acroyear
However, we don't diminish the value of "Phys: Blind" if you can't see images or flashes, aren't affected by darkness, and target that invisible guy like anyone else nor "deaf" if you can't hear a Mind Control command (not all of them are telepathic).

But to give someone the Physical limitation can do evil and then have it also act as a defense is unbalancing.

While Blind or no legs could stop someone from using them in some ways. For a PC to be blind but a superhero he has other thing to offset the blindness many of which are affected by the flashes etc.

Also some Mind Control's would allow someone to control a blind person to walk across the room and hit someone. Because they are not blind and can control the person's body.

While it is a cool idea you also have to consider the affect it will have in game play. If you and the rest of the people you play with think it will work then have ball. As long as everyone is happy the rules can bend as you see fit.