martial maneuvers: ocv and dcv +v/5 or +v/3

[dugfromthearth]

martial arts lets you buy str + v/5 or str + v/3

since buying up strength costs the same as buying up OCV or DCV (in the martial arts system), why not allow buying OCV + v/5 or DCV + v/3, etc?

OCV bonus would be based upon surprise and sheer speed. Blur is standing on the other side of the room, suddenly he is hitting you, before you have time to react.

DCV bonus would be based upon speed and moving. Blur isn't just dodging in place, he is zigzagging at high speeds.

The mechanics are easy. The numbers are the same in the current martial arts system. There is at least as much realistic justification for it as for most hero abilities.

Obviously it is abusable by high speed characters. But I worry more about high damage then high OCV or DCV, and it is allowed for damage.

[Dust Raven]

High damage means nothing it the attack doesn't hit. Granted, the opposite can be said as well, but character's are already likely to have a decent CV or else the rest of their attacks will be useless. And getting a +3 OCV just because you have 15" Running and spend 5 or less points on a maneuver is a bit much; +5 OCV would be obsene.

[dugfromthearth]

+5 OCV for a 5pt maneuver is more obscene the +5d6 dmg for a 5pt maneuver?


I can easily consider both to be obscene, I don't think the OCV is worse then the extra damage.

[Bartman]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth
+5 OCV for a 5pt maneuver is more obscene the +5d6 dmg for a 5pt maneuver?


I can easily consider both to be obscene, I don't think the OCV is worse then the extra damage.

The problem is the extra damage is already availible to anyone through the move through/by maneuvers. All the martial forms do is buy off some of the OCV/DCV penalties. This is equivalant to buying several penalty skill levels, something a non-martial character could do for 3-7pts. To get the +5 OCV or DCV a non-martial character would have to spend 10-20pts.

[Dust Raven]

Originally posted by dugfromthearth
+5 OCV for a 5pt maneuver is more obscene the +5d6 dmg for a 5pt maneuver?


I can easily consider both to be obscene, I don't think the OCV is worse then the extra damage.

To be honest, they are equally obsene in a low powered or Heroic level game. LIke one where the max damage is around 6 dice. I tend to run Superheroic games where an extra 5 dice boots an attack by quite a bit, but not enough to fly head and shoulders over what is "normal".

A +5 OCV though, is always obsene. It turns an 8- chance to hit (24.6% chance of a hit) into a 13- (84.6%). And it will do this regardless of power level. As far as I'm concerned, +5 OCV with a single maneuver costa 10 points, plus the cost of the attack and movement used with it.

Besides...aren't there rules concerning the attacker's velocity reducing OCV?

[dugfromthearth]

never seen rules for velocity reducing OCV.

and yes move by does +v/5 dmg, that is my point. They allow it for dmg, why not OCV and DCV? I know they don't, but saying "they don't" isn't a reason, just a statement of the current rules.

If you don't do this is a maneuver, just buying it regularly, +5d6 dmg for a punch costs 15pts - it is 5 hand attacks. Whereas +5 OCV for a punch is 10pts - 5 2pt levels. So normally +5d6 is 50% more expensive then +5 OCV.

[Dust Raven]

Check the CV Mods for Move Through and Move By for the penalties.

10 points gets you a +5 OCV with a single attack, where +5d6 HA for 15 points gets you 5 additional dice of damage on all hand to hand attacks, including Move Through, Move By, Haymaker and any Martial Arts Maneuvers you happen to have.

Now that I think about it...isn't there a formal warning about making new maneuvers in the UM about the effeciency of Martial Art Maneuvers and keeping balance in the game?

Heck with it....I'm just buying 8 levels in HTH and being done with it. 40 points and I can assign them any way I want among by OCV, DCV or damage. Still can't to NND stuff though...

[prestidigitator]

Originally posted by Dust Raven
Check the CV Mods for Move Through and Move By for the penalties.

I would also give penalties equal to the DCV bonuses for fast movement, if we are talking that fast.

Heck with it....I'm just buying 8 levels in HTH and being done with it. 40 points and I can assign them any way I want among by OCV, DCV or damage. Still can't to NND stuff though...

...unless you have one Martial Art maneuver (well, plus enough to make 10 points), in which case your Combat Skill Levels can increase the DCs from that attack....