The "Essay"(ESSE/UEH) Project(Warning: mature/controversial content contained herein)

[Ranxerox]

One question I've always had is the relationship between COM, Seduction, and various situational and preference modifiers. Yes, I know COM has been eliminated in 6e (argument for elsewhere, I still like it), but physical attractiveness still applies, one way or another.

1) Is a person who is not attracted to your gender necessarily affected in any way by a sexually-oriented Seduction attempt? A Player might easily decide that a given character is susceptible to that particular person, or to fake it, but is the PC/NPC required to respond in any way?
2) Can EGO rolls be used to resist an otherwise successful Seduction? Never been clear on this. What about PRE?
3) How does one clearly simulate extra effort and preparation put into the Seduction attempt? I'm thinking clothing, makeup, location, music and other ambient elements, perfume/cologne, and the like. What about complementary skills, such as Fashion Sense, Disguise, various Performing skills, and so on?
4) A fetish would normally be bought as a Complication, I assume. But since it might provide some degree of defense from Seduction attempts that don't include that fetish (sorry, darling, but your shoes just don't do it for me), how would that affect the point cost and process in a game with a lot of Seduction going on?
5) The whole concept of physical attractiveness is a very personal one. While there are statistical measures of 'what is attractive' that work over large groups, each individual has his or her own triggers and preferences. How do these factors play into Seductions? Does the blonde face a penalty to her roll because my character prefers redheads?
6) How does one represent being jaded? The Seduction that works very effectively on the 17-year old virgin may fail to even mildly amuse the person with a few dozen more years under their belt. Even if the older character is no seducer him/herself, they have still seen all of the approaches, all of the gimmicks, and lived through all of the aftermaths.

Seduction (Charm in 6th Ed) does not work PCs. As a GM, I will make the roll and how well the NPC made it or failed it influences how I describe the scene but the ultimate choice is up to the player. When players use these skills, I am differential to the fact that the player spent points on the skill, but I am still mindful of the wants and desires of the NPC that is being charmed. Trying to use charm to get a guard to let a PC out of their cell or somehow loosen security when that guard knows that their boss will literally kill them if the prisoner escapes is an uphill battle. The guard can bonus to their resist from making INT rolls, EGO rolls, any psych limitations they have related to their boss, etc.

As for the question of individual taste, out of respect for the points the PC spent on the skill I would not decide on the spur of the moment that the NPC preferred redheads to blonds. However, if in my creating of the NPC I had decided that he was still morning the death his beloved, wife Scarlet, I might penalize a PC making a Charm roll on him for both the NPC's grief and for the wrong hair color.

[megaplayboy]

I think it's important to define what "does not work on PCs" means, even in a campaign where that's the normal rule. Does it simply mean that the PCs aren't susceptible to social manipulation, unless they have an applicable psych complication which makes their resistance non-automatic? Or does it mean that the PCs are magically indifferent to the charms of NPCs, which would seem to be a little on the suspension-of-disbelief-breaking side? One could say, in the first instance, that a PC is duly impressed/flattered by the attention of an attractive/seductive NPC(or other PC), but that the decision on how to react is left solely to the player's discretion. In the second instance, blithely blowing off the queen of the succubi(who's taken the shape of the person the PC most desires but has been unable to get with) might be a little jarring to the atmospherics of a setting/adventure.
Also, people spend points on this stuff. They should get game value for doing so, even NPCs, imo. I don't want to manipulate or railroad players any more than anyone else, but they should be at least partly bound by the laws of the campaign universe, including the laws of social interaction. YMMV and probably does.

[megaplayboy]

Continuing the Babe Magnet theme:

Ladies Love Him: 1d6 Mind Control, telepathic, cumulative, x8, 0 Endurance, Persistent, Constant, Fully Invisible, Effects Are Invisible to Others and to Target, Area of Effect: Radius 4 meters(27 active points), No Range, Always On(doesn't really hinder the character, -0), Only vs. Women(-1/2), Single Command: Fall In Love/Lust With Me(-1/2): Real Cost 11 points
Ladies Really Love Him: as above but raise MC to 2d6, AoE to 8 meters(57 active points): No Range, AO, Only vs. Women(-1/2), Single Command: Fall In Love/Lust With Me: Real Cost 23 points
Lovely Ladies Really Love Him: as above but "only vs. women with 2 points or more in SA(-1)" Real Cost 19 points
Super Lovely Ladies Can't Resist Him: 4d6 Mind Control, telepathic, cumulative, x8(max effect 192 points), Penetrating, 0 Endurance, Persistent, Constant, Fully Invisible, Effects invisible to target and observers, AOE Radius 32 meters(135 active points): No Range, AO, Only vs. Female Superhumans and Females with 4+ points in SA(-1), Single Command: Fall in Love/Lust With Me(-1/2): Real Cost 45 points

[megaplayboy]

Where Did That Babe Come From?: Summon 100 Point "Hot Babe"(competent female NPC with SA and Charm), Friendly and Weak-Willed(-2 to EGO Rolls)(+1/2), limited group(attractive, competent women who live in locality, +1/4), usable 4x/day, arrives under own power, must inhabit locale: Real Cost 11 points
Where Did These Hot Babes Come From?: Summon 4 100 point "Hot Babes", Friendly and Weak-Willed, limited group, usable 4x/day, arrive under own power, must inhabit locale: Real Cost 17 points
My God, They're Swarming!: Summon 64 100 point HBs, Friendly and Weak-Willed, LG, 4x/day, AUOP, MIL: Real Cost 29 points

Attack of the Super Babes and Super Hot Babes: Summon up to 16 500 point female superhumans and up to 64 Super Hot Babes(250 points (superagent level, 2+ levels SA), Slavishly Devoted, x4 tasks, limited group(+1/2: attractive female humanoids), 1x/day, Arrive Under Own Power: 600 Active Points, Real Cost 240 points

[Lucius]

Originally posted 19FEB2011 in the thread "Where do gangsters get pool babes?"


From a Variable Babe Pool, of course.



It was probably inevitable that I write it up.

Variable Babe Pool, 50 base + 84 control cost, (92 Active Points); OAF Immobile (Swimming Pool; -2), Limited Special Effect Uncommon SFX (Babes; -1) Real Cost:60

Slots

Call Bimbo: Summon 20-point Babe, Weak-Willed -4 on EGO Rolls (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (8 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1 1/4), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Bevy of Bimbos: Summon 8 20-point Babe, Weak-Willed -4 on EGO Rolls (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (38 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, -1 1/2), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Call Bitch: Summon 175-point Babe, Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX; So many ways to be a bitch...; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Class of Beings (Limited Group: Bitches; So many kinds of bitches...; +1/2) (79 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; You don't pick the bitch; the bitch picks you; -1), Antagonistic Hostile (-1/2), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Pack of Bitches: Summon 4 125-point Babe, Variable Special Effects (Limited Group of SFX; So many ways to be a bitch...; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Class of Beings (Limited Group: Bitches; So many kinds of bitches...; +1/2) (79 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; You don't pick the bitch; the bitch picks you; -1), Antagonistic Hostile (-1/2), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Starlet, Stripper, or Strumpet: Summon 75-point Babe, Expanded Class of Beings (Very Limited Group; Also Escorts, Models, Nurses...; +1/4), Friendly (x2 as many tasks; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (34 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, -1 1/2), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Troupe of Starlets, Strippers, and/or Strumpets: Summon 16 75-point Babe, Expanded Class of Beings (Very Limited Group; Also Escorts, Models, Nurses...; +1/4), Friendly (x2 as many tasks; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (79 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Only to Activate, -2), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Call Moll: Summon 90-point Babe, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); This simply means that if the Moll has unused "tasks" and the character does not, or is not in a position to, give orders, the moll will execute some logical "task" unprompted. Examples of such spontaneous tasks: Arrange bail, call the lawyer, call an ambulance, shoot the hitman that's about to finish off the character, etc.; +1/4), Loyal (x4 as many tasks; +1), Time Limit (1 Week; +2 1/4) (81 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, Only to Activate, -2), 3 Charges which Recover every 1 Week (Loyal molls don't come along every day. Only about once a week.; -1 3/4), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Call Doll: Summon 80-point Babe, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Devoted (x2 as many tasks; +1), Time Limit (1 Month; +2 1/2) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, -1 1/2), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Collection of Dolls: Summon 4 30-point Babe, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Devoted (x2 as many tasks; +1), Time Limit (1 Month; +2 1/2) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Hour, Only to Activate, -1 1/2), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Attract Groupie: Summon 80-point Babe, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); This simply means that if the Groupie has unused "tasks" and the character does not, or is not in a position to, give orders, the Groupie will execute some logical "task" unprompted. Examples of such spontaneous tasks: Arrange bail, call the lawyer, call an ambulance, shoot the hitman that's about to finish off the character, etc.; +1/4), Slavishly Devoted (x2 as many tasks; +1 1/4), Time Limit (1 Month; +2 1/2) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Week, Only to Activate, -2 1/4), 2 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances (Must do something to enhance reputation or draw attention); -1 1/4), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Grope of Groupies: Summon 4 30-point Babe, Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger, Trigger can expire (it has a time limit); This simply means that if the Groupie has unused "tasks" and the character does not, or is not in a position to, give orders, the Groupie will execute some logical "task" unprompted. Examples of such spontaneous tasks: Arrange bail, call the lawyer, call an ambulance, shoot the hitman that's about to finish off the character, etc.; +1/4), Slavishly Devoted (x2 as many tasks; +1 1/4), Time Limit (1 Month; +2 1/2) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Week, Only to Activate, -2 1/4), 2 Charges (Recovers Under Limited Circumstances (Must do something to enhance reputation or draw attention); -1 1/4), Arrives Under Own Power (-1/2)

Looks like the place is packed with babes: Touch Group, Normal Sight and Normal Hearing Images, +/-6 to PER Rolls, Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Uncontrolled (Turn it off by turning them off. They'll probably scatter when the fight starts anyway) (+1/2) (70 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, -1 1/4), Set Effect (-1), Difficult to Alter simple changes take a Full Phase (Plus verbal instructions. "Why don't you girls all get in the pool?"; -1/2), Physical Manifestation (Because it IS packed with babes; -1/4)

Nice Scenery: Change Environment (-4 Characteristic Roll and all Skill Rolls based on Characteristic, Long-Lasting 1 Day, Varying Combat Effects), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Radius; +1/2) (70 Active Points); 3 Charges (-1 1/4), Limited Power Only effects justifiable based on babes (-1/2), Physical Manifestation (But who would want to hurt the babes?; -1/4), Variable Limitations (requires -1/2 worth of Limitations; Usually either Extra Time, or Conditional: must have some babes around already; -1/4)
Note:Filling it with babes is a nice way to change the environment. Possible Variable Combat Effects include: up to 5 STR Telekinesis, to represent casual use of babes to fetch drinks, make sandwiches, give footrubs, and do other tasks requiring little strength or skill, or -5 to either PRE or EGO (whichever is higher) to do anything requiring focus or concentration. Note that setting it to -4 PRE rolls and PRE skills is very useful if one is negotiating something with a guest...

Not so dumb after all: Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group, Normal Smell And Normal Hearing), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (75 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Only Through The Senses Of Babes (-1/2), Limited Power Sometimes babes are confused, make something up, or are vague and uncertain (-1/2), Limited Range (-1/4)
Note: Sometimes a babe will notice something and even mention it - at the time or later

Naked Advantage: Line Of Sight (+1/2) for up to 3 Active Points (1 Active Points)
Note: Seeing them naked is one of the great advantages of a Variable Babe Pool...

Orgy: Swinging 1m, Uncontrolled (Completely wild and out of control!; +1/2) (1 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes, Only to Activate, To get the party started; -1), Required Multiple Users ([3-4] people; Sort of by definition....; -1/2)
Note: Oh wait, not THAT kind of swinging....



Edit: Thought of one more possibility: Her Own Car/Her Own Place ("Let's hang out at your place for a while...") a Summon Vehicle or Base.

Edit: Another I added later

Don't be like that, babe, just listen to me...: Mind Control 7d6+1, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Cumulative (86 points; +3/4) (83 Active Points); Limited Class Of Minds Babes (-1), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Only to Activate, -3/4), Variable Limitations (requires -1 worth of Limitations; Normally some combination of: Skin Contact Required, Eye Contact Required, Expendable Focus (cash or gifts,) Requires Skill Roll: Charm, Literal Interpretation (especially for Bimbos); -1/2), Incantations (Fast Talking; -1/4)




Lucius Alexander

Variable Palindromedary Pool

[Ranxerox]

I think it's important to define what "does not work on PCs" means, even in a campaign where that's the normal rule. Does it simply mean that the PCs aren't susceptible to social manipulation, unless they have an applicable psych complication which makes their resistance non-automatic? Or does it mean that the PCs are magically indifferent to the charms of NPCs, which would seem to be a little on the suspension-of-disbelief-breaking side? One could say, in the first instance, that a PC is duly impressed/flattered by the attention of an attractive/seductive NPC(or other PC), but that the decision on how to react is left solely to the player's discretion. In the second instance, blithely blowing off the queen of the succubi(who's taken the shape of the person the PC most desires but has been unable to get with) might be a little jarring to the atmospherics of a setting/adventure.
Also, people spend points on this stuff. They should get game value for doing so, even NPCs, imo. I don't want to manipulate or railroad players any more than anyone else, but they should be at least partly bound by the laws of the campaign universe, including the laws of social interaction. YMMV and probably does.

No, my mileage doesn't vary all the much. However, I lump that into the description of the scene. If the NPC made their charm roll, I will describe them in much more inviting and or compelling than if the NPC failed the roll or didn't have the skill. Under extreme circumstances I might consider making the player succeed at an EGO roll to resist, though this smacks of railroading so I would probably reserve this for situations where the PC's actions seemed based entirely on knowledge that the player had but the PC lacked.

[megaplayboy]

Giving someone pleasure can be simulated(stimulated?) in a variety of ways. As a skill check, with how well you make the roll indicating your degree of success; as a role-playing "off screen" gimme, assuming that winning consent or seducing the target generally also implies success in "doing the deed" as well; in the case of superhuman levels of pleasure-giving, as something that has a tangible effect on the target(MC: Single Command: Feel Sexual Pleasure; Mental Illusions: Feel Sexual Pleasure; Images vs. touch; Entangle or Entangle vs. EGO(locked in the throes of pleasure, unable to move); NND(experiencing powerful waves of bliss, slowly beginning to pass out from pleasure overload); Change Environment(levels of arousal); Transform(Cosmetic or Minor, partial effect, person into person experiencing a powerful climax); etc.)

[megaplayboy]

No, my mileage doesn't vary all the much. However, I lump that into the description of the scene. If the NPC made their charm roll, I will describe them in much more inviting and or compelling than if the NPC failed the roll or didn't have the skill. Under extreme circumstances I might consider making the player succeed at an EGO roll to resist, though this smacks of railroading so I would probably reserve this for situations where the PC's actions seemed based entirely on knowledge that the player had but the PC lacked.

That sounds reasonable. Yeah, in a game with those ground rules, I'd probably still require the player to make an EGO roll for his PC, if it seemed like the root of his resistance was player paranoia more than a good faith interpretation of his character's response.

[Steve]

I think it's probably helpful to attempt at least a semi-accurate, semi-detailed breakdown of the "process" of attraction/flirtation/courting/foreplay/intercourse/afterplay/intimacy. It would probably help, because we could then think of abilities in terms of what effect they have on which stage of this process.

Here is my take on the stages using skills and talents.

1) Attraction: Since this is dramatic fiction, points spent on Striking Appearance and/or Charm can assist here to get noticed. Good roleplaying can cover for a lack of them.
2) Flirtation: They're noticing you, so what now? Charm is the main skill used, maybe Acting to pretend emotional responses. Conversation would be helpful in learning their favorite topics of discussion.
3) Courting: This can be more role-playing territory, but Charm continues to be the main skill needed.
4) Foreplay: From first kiss to third base, here a skill at PS: Perform Sexual Techniques (not sure what untrained level would be, maybe 6- or assumed everyman 8- familiarity) begins being used. More Charm gets applied to overcome any resistance.
5) Intercourse: Use above PS here, maybe assisted by Contortionist and Double-Jointed.
6) Afterplay and Intimacy: More roleplaying than skill use, but Conversation to find out what they liked.

[megaplayboy]

In terms of Intimacy, KS: Specific Person is probably operative here, as a complementary skill for, well, pretty much every interaction or other skill used on the person. It can take weeks, months, years, even decades to get to know someone really well, but once you do, it makes a lot of basic things pretty much automatic.

Okay, I think I wasn't being sarcastic...

[James Gillen]

I think it's important to define what "does not work on PCs" means, even in a campaign where that's the normal rule. Does it simply mean that the PCs aren't susceptible to social manipulation, unless they have an applicable psych complication which makes their resistance non-automatic? Or does it mean that the PCs are magically indifferent to the charms of NPCs, which would seem to be a little on the suspension-of-disbelief-breaking side?

Rules for Psychological Complications are already in the main book. Thus while I normally wouldn't say a PC MUST follow the intent of an Interaction Skill roll, the right Complication could change that. This would apply to a "Greedy" character targeted with Bribery as much as a "Hedonist" character targeted with Charm.

JG

[James Gillen]

Attack of the Super Babes and Super Hot Babes: Summon up to 16 500 point female superhumans and up to 64 Super Hot Babes(250 points (superagent level, 2+ levels SA), Slavishly Devoted, x4 tasks, limited group(+1/2: attractive female humanoids), 1x/day, Arrive Under Own Power: 600 Active Points, Real Cost 240 points

This should be bought with the IAF Focus / Axe Cologne.

JG

[phoenix240]

I think it's important to define what "does not work on PCs" means, even in a campaign where that's the normal rule. Does it simply mean that the PCs aren't susceptible to social manipulation, unless they have an applicable psych complication which makes their resistance non-automatic? Or does it mean that the PCs are magically indifferent to the charms of NPCs, which would seem to be a little on the suspension-of-disbelief-breaking side? One could say, in the first instance, that a PC is duly impressed/flattered by the attention of an attractive/seductive NPC(or other PC), but that the decision on how to react is left solely to the player's discretion. In the second instance, blithely blowing off the queen of the succubi(who's taken the shape of the person the PC most desires but has been unable to get with) might be a little jarring to the atmospherics of a setting/adventure.
Also, people spend points on this stuff. They should get game value for doing so, even NPCs, imo. I don't want to manipulate or railroad players any more than anyone else, but they should be at least partly bound by the laws of the campaign universe, including the laws of social interaction. YMMV and probably does.

This discussion illustrates another reason why people chose to use Powers over Skills. There is no clause the Mind Control even purchased as "Super Persuasion/Seduction" doesn't work on PCs.

[James Gillen]

This discussion illustrates another reason why people chose to use Powers over Skills. There is no clause the Mind Control even purchased as "Super Persuasion/Seduction" doesn't work on PCs.

That is indeed a good point. That's why it's "Super."

JG

[megaplayboy]

One question I've always had is the relationship between COM, Seduction, and various situational and preference modifiers. Yes, I know COM has been eliminated in 6e (argument for elsewhere, I still like it), but physical attractiveness still applies, one way or another.

1) Is a person who is not attracted to your gender necessarily affected in any way by a sexually-oriented Seduction attempt? A Player might easily decide that a given character is susceptible to that particular person, or to fake it, but is the PC/NPC required to respond in any way?
2) Can EGO rolls be used to resist an otherwise successful Seduction? Never been clear on this. What about PRE?
3) How does one clearly simulate extra effort and preparation put into the Seduction attempt? I'm thinking clothing, makeup, location, music and other ambient elements, perfume/cologne, and the like. What about complementary skills, such as Fashion Sense, Disguise, various Performing skills, and so on?
4) A fetish would normally be bought as a Complication, I assume. But since it might provide some degree of defense from Seduction attempts that don't include that fetish (sorry, darling, but your shoes just don't do it for me), how would that affect the point cost and process in a game with a lot of Seduction going on?
5) The whole concept of physical attractiveness is a very personal one. While there are statistical measures of 'what is attractive' that work over large groups, each individual has his or her own triggers and preferences. How do these factors play into Seductions? Does the blonde face a penalty to her roll because my character prefers redheads?
6) How does one represent being jaded? The Seduction that works very effectively on the 17-year old virgin may fail to even mildly amuse the person with a few dozen more years under their belt. Even if the older character is no seducer him/herself, they have still seen all of the approaches, all of the gimmicks, and lived through all of the aftermaths.

Sorry I'm late answering this.
1) Ultimate Skill/Hero System Skills has a specific modifier for "target not normally attracted to members of user's gender", with the penalty starting at -3. I'd peg that range at -3 to -5. They also have a modifier for "target already in a committed relationship", with a range from -1 to -3. They don't have one for "target is closely related to user", but based on those mods, I'd guess this is in the -1 to -4 range(e.g., in-law/2nd cousin, -1; aunt/uncle/1st cousin, -2; step-parent or step-sibling, -3; parent or sibling, -4). Yes, I know: Eww. These mods would be cumulative, of course. As a general rule, if the cumulative mod is -10 or worse, only a character with an unmodified Charm/Seduction roll of 18-(or better) can attempt it. Optionally, a GM might permit a character whose roll is modified to equal or exceed 18(by circumstances, taking extra time, striking appearance, complementary skill rolls, etc.) to attempt such a task.
2. I believe that Seduction/Charm attempts are technically Skill vs. Skill, or Skill vs. Ego roll, so yes, one could roll an EGO roll(with a penalty based on how well the Charm roll was made) to resist. Once you blow the Ego roll, as a GM I'd rule there has to be some intervening change in circumstance which would permit another Ego roll.
3. One can simulate these either with specific Talents, as I noted earlier, or by just giving bonuses for extra time, use of appropriate "equipment"(clothes, hair, makeup, perfume/cologne, etc.). Note that TUS/HSS specifies one may spend up to 20 minutes studying a target before approaching them, making a Charm roll which if successful is complementary to the subsequent seduction attempt. If one spends "extra time" studying the target(1 hour, 6 hours, 1 day), then one gets a bonus to that roll.
4. Fetishes as psych complications could use the TUS rules on page 38(with bonuses or penalties from +/-1 to +/-3 depending on the intensity of the complication, and whether it complements or goes against the circumstances/task attempted).
5. I think I'd extrapolate from the "character not normally attracted to members of user's gender", and say what you're talking about could be a -1 or -2 penalty, maybe even -3 depending on how far the user is from what the target is normally attracted to. I wouldn't go higher than -3 though(that's the same penalty as going against a total commitment psych lim)
6. I'd represent this as simply a bonus to resist Charm attempts, from +1 to +5, but probably no higher than +5. Though, if you wanted a character who was nearly impossible to seduce, I suppose +10 would be one way to do it.