What is your favorite Star Wars rpg? and why?

[Starcloud]

Yeesssss... and if I *just* wanted to play a Rebel-only campaign in the Rebellion Era, WEG's 1st edition D6 Star Wars would be ideal. However, I and most of the other people I've played with aren't *just* interested in the Rebellion Era. That's why, for us, 2nd edition works better than 1st, period.

Further, there is nothing wrong with criticizing a rules systems for the holes it has even in the intended setting and time period. Jedi advance faster in 1st edition than in 2nd, and as a result, it is up to the GM to hold tight reins on the campaign, which in turn restricts the kinds of stories the GM can tell.

[Kap]

Yeesssss... and if I *just* wanted to play a Rebel-only campaign in the Rebellion Era, WEG's 1st edition D6 Star Wars would be ideal. However, I and most of the other people I've played with aren't *just* interested in the Rebellion Era. That's why, for us, 2nd edition works better than 1st, period.

Further, there is nothing wrong with criticizing a rules systems for the holes it has even in the intended setting and time period. Jedi advance faster in 1st edition than in 2nd, and as a result, it is up to the GM to hold tight reins on the campaign, which in turn restricts the kinds of stories the GM can tell.

It's interesting that you can't seem to address the facts but have to change the subject. Keep the dream alive. I admire your persistence if not your ability to prove your point.

[Starcloud]

And I find it interesting that you're projecting. I have addressed the facts; 1st edition is very tightly bound to a specific campaign style, 2nd edition is not.

[Michael Hopcroft]

OK, time out guys. Back to your corners. Don't come out again until the bell rings.

(Do we need to find a bell? I can't find one....)

[ercarlson1974]

WEG d6 1st edition is indeed geared for a Rebellion era setting...if you take the main RPG book and Sourcebook as the only allowable sources. Even before 2nd edition, WEG was releasing source material that was still set in the Imperial/Rebellion era, but didn't require players to play Rebel operatives. Galaxy Guide 6 (Tramp Freighters) is the best example I can think of offhand. In that sourcebook, rules were set forth for customizing ships with money and not skill points, fringe life was described in greater detail than anywhere before (except maybe the Han Solo and Lando Calrissian novels of those days), and it moved the spotlight away from the Rebellion quite nicely. By the time 2nd edition came around, the Rebellion didn't fade completely, but dang, was there a staggering array of source material for playing Imperials, bounty hunters, military forces of many factions, and so forth.

WEG 1st edition was also wide open to modification, which we did many times. 2nd edition codified some of our house rules and a few others we hadn't thought of. I am closer to Kap's point of view, as never once did I feel that Rebel characters were the only way to go; the system was way too flexible to be bound irrevocably to one setting and faction. The source material was just geared for Rebel characters. On the flip side, Starcloud makes good points too. The 2nd edition source material is more supportive of playing other eras and factions. And ultimately, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and I will always respect that.

As I see it, it just boils down to two things: what game do you like to play, and what rules best fit your vision? For us it was houseruled 1st edition. Another group will likely come up with another solution.

[Ninja-Bear]

That's why I like to think that WEG SW d6 2nd edition 'brought balance to the Force.'

There were few restrictions on what powers a Jedi could learn under 1st edition. If you were playing during the Rebellion Era, great, teachers were few and far between, and it could be an adventure just to find one. Outside of the Rebellion Era, though, the difficulty of finding a teacher plummets to near zero. 2nd edition at least restricted the number of powers you could learn to the number of pips you had in a Force Power/Attribute, and abilities that drew on multiple skills counted as a choice under every one of those skills (IIRC).

The other day, I ran across a site and it had a comparison of all three WEG editions. (Wish I could find the site again) The main point was that the skills got specializations in 2nd because they (fans) wanted more "crunch" to the system.

[Ninja-Bear]

1st edition is specifically set during the rebellion.

From what I'm seeing here, it appears people have trouble with the Force because GMs are making it waaaaay too common and waaaay too easy to find a teacher. Even if a PC gets lucky and finds a Jedi, it doesn't or shouldn't mean the Jedi consents to teach the PC anything without serious scrutiny that could last months or years.

So far all the "holes" and "problems" with the WEG system are actually just bad gamemastering

Since first edition though, Star Wars expanded universe has well expanded. I have a rulebook to play the Tales of the Jedi, which is set 4,000 years bby. (And alot of Jedi and Sith running around). The following editions took into consideration that people may want to play different eras in the Star Wars Uninverse, including the New Jedi Academy. The first edition didn't have to address this these issues. Now was some people doing the montey haul with the Jedi, that probally true, but that could also be that there wasn't a good guideline to follow too. (If going by canon, there shouldn't be any jedi characters set during the classic era.) Whether or not one chooses to play the other eras is a moot point. To me its like having a DC Heroes game, but then not allowing Golden Age supers because the rules don't support it.

[Vondy]

As for Jedi being boring got me thinking (which is dangerous). First, although I don't use everything that's cannon, there is an expanded list of different types of Jedis. I got the Tales of the Jedi companion book for Christmas, and it has Battlemaster, Healer, and Shadow as archetypes and mentions Jedi minstrels in book. The Shadow Jedis hunt down the Sith. On Wookieepedia, it mentions that besides Jedi and Sith, you have Gray Jedi, Dark Jedi, and a few others that don't follow the traditional Jedi. I mentioned the Teepo Paladins? They ae a branch of Jedi that went with the blaster insteed of the lightsaber. I also got to thinking, hmm a wookiee Jedi? Well Wookiees have a battle rage, how hard would it to be to keep that in control woth out going to the Darkside? Or how hard would it be to be a Trandoshan Jedi, especially if there's a wookiee in the party? I know using WEG (more because of the mechanics), I'd be walking a fine line of not calling on the Darkside. (I role crappy as a hero so calling on the darkside to gain extra dice, espeically if I was fighting a foe is tempting to say the least.) I not picking up why there seems to be no love for the Jedi, or somehow they're boring?

One could also introduce one of the "lost 20" who raised up disciples. In the books these are the 20 Jedi masters who left the order for various reasons. Its possible that not all of them turned to the dark side (like Dooku did). Maybe the difference is just interpretation of the force, or principled differences in applied ethics, rather than the light-side, dark-side dichotomy.

Another "book canon" option are the Jedi from Corellia, who have had their own distinct approach since before the Jedi order built a central headquarters on Corsucant. They maintained family bonds and seem to have married as well. In some of the books a group of them remained aloof on Corellia when the planet evoked its separatist clause during the Galactic Civil War. This could have bought a few of them time to escape.

Also, there were other survivors of the Jedi Purge in the books, comics, games, etc. Some of them, with the Jedi Order dead, might have "evolved" and sought to practice, and raise up new disciples, in their own way. This would allow for a post RotJ scenario in which there are allied Jedi Orders.

I've always viewed the Jedi as depicted in the films as having become deadlocked and stagnated in dogmatic orthopaxy.

[Vondy]

The problem is that from a role-playing standpoint Jedi, despite their power, aren't that interesting.

I don't think a Jedi as an individual is any more or less interesting than anyone else.

It all depends on how you craft their backstory, circumstances and persona.

It also depends on whether or not they are the sole protagonist or in a Jedi-centric campaign.

One could certainly craft an individual Jedi, opponents, and scenarios that are interesting.

On the other hand, if you have a mixed group that de-emphasizes the story of the Jedi it becomes much harder.

[Vondy]

As I see it, it just boils down to two things: what game do you like to play, and what rules best fit your vision?

I've always wanted to run a game that takes the six films as canon, except... the original concept for how Jedi ended is in play.

In other words,

1. The final battle is on Kashyyyk,
2. Han is killed during the raid on the shield generator
3. Leia is left to lead both the assault and rebellion
4. Luke goes "Clint Eastwood" in the throne room and strides off alone at the end

I would then also take a few ideas I like from non-film sources, including that a handful of Jedi survived Order 66 and the Great Jedi Purge.

Young Master Skywalker would likely seek them out and not be the sole voice in re-building the order.

And there would be plenty of adventures for those seeking to continue against the now shaken Empire to restore the Republic.

[wrestlinggeek]

I've had several ideas for Star Wars campaigns in my head lately. Including one that starts just before the Battle of Coruscant in RoTS. The idea behind that one would be that the movie timeline has been in force up until that time. After that, anything that follows could theoretically be chaged by the PCs' actions.

[Zen Archer]

I've always viewed the Jedi as depicted in the films as having become deadlocked and stagnated in dogmatic orthopaxy.

The latter for sure. And so blind in the prequels that they never seem to consider what "bringing balance to the force" might actually *mean*.

[Zen Archer]

I've had several ideas for Star Wars campaigns in my head lately.

I think about these a lot as well. Usually, as with most games licensed from other media, I find ways to either kill off or sideline the main characters in order to give PCs a shot at being the heroes.

[Ninja-Bear]

One could also introduce one of the "lost 20" who raised up disciples. In the books these are the 20 Jedi masters who left the order for various reasons. Its possible that not all of them turned to the dark side (like Dooku did). Maybe the difference is just interpretation of the force, or principled differences in applied ethics, rather than the light-side, dark-side dichotomy.

Another "book canon" option are the Jedi from Corellia, who have had their own distinct approach since before the Jedi order built a central headquarters on Corsucant. They maintained family bonds and seem to have married as well. In some of the books a group of them remained aloof on Corellia when the planet evoked its separatist clause during the Galactic Civil War. This could have bought a few of them time to escape.

Also, there were other survivors of the Jedi Purge in the books, comics, games, etc. Some of them, with the Jedi Order dead, might have "evolved" and sought to practice, and raise up new disciples, in their own way. This would allow for a post RotJ scenario in which there are allied Jedi Orders.

I've always viewed the Jedi as depicted in the films as having become deadlocked and stagnated in dogmatic orthopaxy.

I think that there could be be great roleplaying potential here. If you have a "traditional" Jedi and a different sect of Jedi now working together. The tension could be great. You mentioned the Correllian sect not interfering. Imagaine one of those now working with another Jedi who was on the front lines. I'd imagine being the GM/darkside whispering something like this "Look at him, if the Correllian sect would have acted, your master wouldn't have died, this wouldn't have happen."

[Ninja-Bear]

Ran across on Wookieepedia some other Jedi/Force user groups.
Altisian Jedi: who could have multiple apprentices, marriage and taught non-sensitives.
Antarian Rangers: who are non force users helped the Jedi
Jensaarai: Sith/Jedi created by Sith but later made pece with Jedi.

The only problem with so many groups, then it (to me) dilutes both Jedi and Sith.