Turakian Age meets Terran Empire

[The Main Man]

For a long time I have owned both the Turakian Age and Terran Empire campaign books, but I could never quite get a campaign off the ground for a variety of reasons. Then I came up with a way to merge them.

It comes down to this: what if that apocalyptic battle against Takofanes never happened? The Valdorian and Atlantean Ages never happened, nor any dark ages in between them. Magic never crashed, but instead slowly waned until society uses advanced artifacts (i.e. "magitech" or the like) to conduct much of what magic used too do. Last, it managed to take to the stars and become a member of the galactic community.

The idea is that of a more literal fusion of High Fantasy with Space Opera. Perhaps it could be called "High Science Fantasy."

First, what does anyone think of the idea? Second, while I plan to share some of my ideas regarding the possibilities, I'd like to hear some of my fellow HEROphiles' uninfluenced ideas first. What kinds of possibilities might such a different history hold for Earth and the alien races of the galaxy?

[Shadowsoul]

Fascinating idea.

I can see some big racial issues. The Terran Empire would consist of many different races even before they encountered any 'aliens'. Would the Terrans stick together?

If they did then they would probably excel at boarding actions and ground battles. Lots of monsters like Ogres and Manticores who could crush the enemy at close quarters.

If not then you might have something which faintly resembles WH40K, one empire of space-elves, one of space-orcs and so on.

Apart from this you would presumably just have magitech replacing tech, which in Hero terms means filing the serial numbers of a particular piece of equipment and then using it as normal. E.g. death-staves instead of death-rays, same power but with a different name.

BTW. You would be obligated to pit a dragon against a starfighter.

[The Main Man]

You're on a similar track to what I think. First, I do intend for it to have "magitech" in a similar vein to WH40K, where everything seems too fall somewhere in between magic and science. Basically, Clarke's Third Law meets Niven's Corollary.

Second, racial issues was indeed an early thought. I have two ideas that could be compatible. One is that, due to proportion of races, humans continue to dominate the planet. Additionally, "half-races" are more common and possibly rival pure races. I had the idea that a similar phenomenon occurring amongst Dwarves and Halflings - thus more Gnomes - as well as among the Orc-kin (Orcs, Goblins, and Trolls), which made me think of two possible new "subraces" that would be like Hobgoblins (1/2 Orc, 1/2 Goblin) and Bugbears (1/2 Orc, 1/2 Troll) in D&D. I do wonder the fates of the Drakine, Erqigdlit, Leomachi, Pakasa, and Seshurma.

The other idea, which could work with the preceding idea, is that of a colonized moon and terraformed Mars and Venus, possibly other works throughout the sugar system.

And yeah, I pretty much do need to have dragons versus space fighters.

[Lord Liaden]

You'll need to consider the effect of the presence of magic on the alien societies described in Terran Empire. Technology and psionics are the only "magical" effects that the default setting allowed for, but other background elements implicit in it could become more prominent if magic is still present. For example, the "avatars" of the Velarian religion Scomaru Shaan could be actual avatars of their gods, with the powers of demigods. The Thane, and perhaps even the Elder Worm, might be a greater threat in this era with access to their spell powers and magitech.

Instead of or in addition to the covert/ criminal organizations and societies mentioned in Terran Empire (and further detailed in Scourges Of The Galaxy), magic-based conspiracies would also likely be a feature of the merged setting. I would suggest that the Circle of the Scarlet Moon (from Champions Villains Vol. 2) would adapt well to this concept as an interstellar conspiracy for PCs to oppose.

Speaking of Scourges Of The Galaxy, IMHO the development of the Church of the Infinite Dark in that book makes it perfect as a major adversary in the world it sounds like you're going for. Physically and mentally warped worshippers of the Kings of Edom, traveling the galaxy in enormous grotesque starships, annihilating whole worlds in order to free the Kings into this universe? What's not to like?

[The Main Man]

Ah yes. I've given some thought to the fact that alien races would have magic too. I think that most races would know all of the general arcana just as they have the same general technology in TE, with various strengths and shortcomings compared to Earth/Ambrethel. Some unique magic to boot of course, just as Trolls have their own magic and the like.

I do know that I must consider psionics versus magic. Psionics probably ought to be a branch of magic, but perhaps they are more akin to "wild talent" magic. That could be interesting considering that most magic is conducted through magitech...


I think I could easily fuse the Church of the Infinite Dark with DEMON rather easily. Actually, it will probably be quite fun translating Champions characters to such a setting.

[The Main Man]

Update: I worked out a rough alternate history that takes the world from the Turakian Age to the Terran Empire age.

First, there is extended prosperity for the world since Kal Turak never returns as Takofanes to fight an apocalyptic battle against the world.

Magic never crashes, the continents remain the same. I have some vague idea of a Dark Age brought about by stagnation and chaos.

From there, I have the idea that the Valdorian Age doesn't happen, but barbarism becomes the rule of the day, and magic knowledge is lost in raids, plunder, battle, and other general strife. Magic is taught more exclusively and is used by an elite class who use it to maintain power within feudal establishments.

I think Valdor could still rise to prominence, but more as a hybrid of Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan. He conquers an enormous part of the known world, bringing about cultural syncretism to his newfound allies and subordinate kingdoms and complete annihilation to those that resist or oppose him. I think this could and should have an effect on the races of Ambrethel.

Furthermore, long-hidden magic knowledge is rediscovered as spoils of war, and a sort of "Atlantean Revolution" begins, where magic is, for lack of a better word, "reengineered."

Society slowly shifts from monarchical feudalism to an age of mostly republics. Magic comes in two general varieties: technology and raw power - Incantations, Gestures, and Material components are seen as primitive means of harnessing magic.

Eventually, the world manages to first land on the moon. Soon enough, colonization follows, then terraforming of at least Mars and Venus. Then, first contact happens. I think the Xenovore Wars can still happen, possibly strengthening ties between the worlds' races, propelling them onto the Galactic Stage.

And now it is the "present."

I think it needs work. I still want to figure out the racial situation of Earth up to the present of the campaign add well as how it got there.

What are my fellow HEROphiles' thoughts?

[Peregrine]

[QUOTE=The Main Man;2248777]I think I could easily fuse the Church of the Infinite Dark with DEMON rather easily. /QUOTE]

Very easily. The CotID is DEMON, or rather the descendants of the surviving remnants after Luther Black got consumed by the Kings of Edom after failing once too often....

[Lord Liaden]

[QUOTE=Peregrine;2271819]

I think I could easily fuse the Church of the Infinite Dark with DEMON rather easily. /QUOTE]

Very easily. The CotID is DEMON, or rather the descendants of the surviving remnants after Luther Black got consumed by the Kings of Edom after failing once too often....

Actually, as presented in Scourges of the Galaxy the CotID is a totally distinct entity with no connection to DEMON, other than that its leaders also seek to free Kings of Edom. Stylistically and structurally the two groups are very different, although I agree with the Main Man that at least some elements from both could be merged without much difficulty.

[The Main Man]

[QUOTE=Lord Liaden;2272307]

Actually, as presented in Scourges of the Galaxy the CotID is a totally distinct entity with no connection to DEMON, other than that its leaders also seek to free Kings of Edom. Stylistically and structurally the two groups are very different, although I agree with the Main Man that at least some elements from both could be merged without much difficulty.

Precisely. They both ultimately work towards the same purpose, and since DEMON is already magic-based, I can use the Church of the Infinite Dark as a guide for how to "Sci-Fi them up."

[Lord Liaden]

While I appreciate your desire to make use of your copy of Turakian Age, for this type of campaign you could also benefit from picking up The Atlantean Age. That book places considerable emphasis on "magitech," particularly for the Atlanteans and Lemurians: weapons, vehicles, and golems. There's no reason people from Ambrethel, as they explored the rest of the planet, couldn't have discovered and learned to use orichalcum and ignaetium, the magic materials of the Atlanteans and Lemurians respectively. Devices like theirs would meld better with the motifs of sci-fi technology than would straight-up spellcasting.

[The Main Man]

While I appreciate your desire to make use of your copy of Turakian Age, for this type of campaign you could also benefit from picking up The Atlantean Age. That book places considerable emphasis on "magitech," particularly for the Atlanteans and Lemurians: weapons, vehicles, and golems. There's no reason people from Ambrethel, as they explored the rest of the planet, couldn't have discovered and learned to use orichalcum and ignaetium, the magic materials of the Atlanteans and Lemurians respectively. Devices like theirs would meld better with the motifs of sci-fi technology than would straight-up spellcasting.

Yes, my thoughts exactly as of this week. And that's why I decided that an Atlantean Agree of sorts still happened, just differently. Hm... Maybe it replaced the "Superhero Age" as well...

That said, I still need to read up on the history and world of the Atlantean Age.

[Lucius]

If we go by what's in Turakian Age, the Drakine are extinct. In fact, they never could have existed. They're a non-starter as a species.

The other "minor races" or less numerous sentient species would probably be lost as well, but remember - with the rise of biothaumaturgy, any or all of them could also be revived Perhaps the Pakusa are forgotten except for a few fossils and artifacts in museums, but as long as there are cats - either housecats or the "big cats" - there will be people who admire them and want to be like them, and some enterprising wizard will find the way to transform someone into a cat person. Such people and their descendents would form their own community....


If one effect of magic is that a given planet hosts, not a single dominant sentient species, but a score of them, often closely related, this should be true of all inhabited worlds and not just Earth. Rather than speaking of a "sentient species" or a planet's "dominant species" terms like "sentient genus" or "dominant genus" might be in use.

And given the amount of hybridization going on, I can't doubt that Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, Orcs, Goblins, and Trolls, are all one genus.

I suggest you make a set of "types templates" for various niches that variant species would fill, that could be applied to Humans to get the above creatures and could apply to other species to get their equivalents.

Lucius Alexander

Palindromedary Enterprises

[Lucius]

Awareness. Will. Symbolism.

For magic to work, always, there must be a mind. Even primitive organisms that use it instinctively, have some level of consciousness.

That is why every machine must have an Operator. Modern thaumaturgy may use tools far more sophisticated than wands and potions and incantations, but still there must be Intention and Attention, or a device will remain like Schroedinger's Black Box with the possibly dead cat inside, suspended between possibilities and unable to definitely manifest.

From the massive engine of a starcrosser, to a simple household ablutorium or illuminator that any child can Operate, a thaumaturgical artifact can only function when an individual Awareness of some sort is involved.

But not all self-aware intelligences are natural. Even the earliest shamans and witches, who called their conjurations "spirits" or "demons," were able to create AIs - Aware Invocations. Modern AIs have the potential to make life even more convenient and pleasant. But they must be used carefully....

Lucius Alexander

Sator Arepo Tenet Opera Rotas

[Captain Obvious]

I was thinking about the magic/science concept earlier today, and decided that orichalcum, the "philosopher's stone", must be a subatomic particle. This explains why certain atoms (those with the orichalcum in them) tend to spontaneously transmute into other elements.

It is, of course, common knowledge that phlogiston has negative weight. This explains why ashes (dephlogisticated matter) is heavier than the original material. Phlogiston, as an aside, makes for a great lifting gas in balloons and such, but due to its inflammable nature, is very dangerous. (Oh, the humanity!)

[The Main Man]

Couple of interesting ideas so far. It seems that the path is through metaphysics. Makes me think of how the Greeks once thought all matter was composed of the four elements. Four elements versus four forces hm...

Then along comes Anaximander IIRC with his hypothesis of the fifth element: Milla Jov- er... Um, I mean the "apeiron," defined more or less as an absence that balances the other four elements.

So what if this so-called "Source" I mentioned earlier was this fifth element that creates void in the elements and physical forces and thus allows for manipulation aka magic?