Why I prefer HERO System over Pathfinder/OGL/D&D for fantasy

[Ndreare]

While choice can slow things down. Over commingled it can be done by the gm just getting an idea from the player and making the first character.
the the players learn as they go when they get experience the can use it to learn about new rules...

[Captain Obvious]

While choice can slow things down. Over commingled it can be done by the gm just getting an idea from the player and making the first character.
the the players learn as they go when they get experience the can use it to learn about new rules...

GM assistance is probably really the best way to get newbies started out in Hero. Let them have an idea of the world's background, let them pick a general concept, build to that concept while making a few suggestions, and maybe make them spend the last few points on their own. After that, XP are easy to spend.

[Ninja-Bear]

As for the ease for new players, I think part of it is that when trying to comprehend a new game, having limits sometimes HELPS to make it a little easier. In D20, the player knows what their character's abilities and limits are pretty quick because it is built into the class. And when facing another member fo their class, they have SOME idea of what to expect. Hero is SO wide open when it comes to choices that for a new player it can be very frustrating not being able to do everything you want to do because you have to balance those points. In D20, you roll dice, and they are what they are. You may decide what stats go where and MAYBE if the GM allows, you can make some small modifications. But mostly the dice make the decisions for you. In Hero you have to think about and decide each and every thing. And for a new player, the task of deciding..."Hmmmm is a 13 str. good enough, or should I cut down my con from 15 to 14 so I can up my str by two points?" ... is ALOT to consider. They do not grasp what the numbers mean and therefore are less connected o their characters. Now I will grant you, some of my newer players are new to roleplaying games all together! And that is even tougher as they have several learning curves they are trying to climb at once. <begin edit> I thought of a perfect example for my point after making this post. My sons are 8 and 11. I have played Hero Quest with them for a few years before introducing them to D20. They took to it far better because they now had the concept in their head of rolling dice, comparing the result to what your character's stats said they could do, and applying the result. They also understood that their character may be better or worse at things than the other characters and it takes a good mix of talents to make a good party. (Something VERY important to learn when you have 2 very competitive brothers!) So when they got to the point where the Heroquest system was too limiting (Why CAN'T I just peak in the door or listen at the door instead of just flinging it open?) did I consider them ready for a more advanced system. D20 was a good next step. Had I tried to introduce them right to Hero, they would have been too frustrated because they would read each skill, each power, each talent, and want their characters to do them all. With D20, they didn't have as many choices once they decided what kind of character they wanted to play. It was far easier for them to grasp.<end edit>

I hope I made some sense here. I apologize for not checking in for a while to answer this question in a more timely fashion.

I understand your point. as to introducing your kids to Hero, I have had a different experience. With my daughter who's 9, she didn't find it overwhelming. But that's because of two things, one since its just her and me, its more one on one. (I can imagine having two to teach at the same time is harder ) And two, (and most importantly, to me) while I gave her character options, they where limited. I have no idea why it seems taboo in this community (though not expressed by all) to dare to put limits on characters, when it teaching new people, regardless of age. Now I understand that if the player gets it, then by all means allow them more options. If it was a different game, would there be such an expectation to know all the rules first? I don't think so.

[Nolgroth]

When I taught my kids Hero, I didn't give them any options other than which character to pick from. I had all the special abilities, including a description of the martial maneuvers, laid out for them in plain text. I also had a quick explanation of how END worked for each attack and some quick advise on how to balance END use. The idea was that we could layer a little bit more on as time went on. Sadly, other things distracted them and they never really embraced roleplaying as anything more than a replacement for Heroscape.

[Glupii]

I agree 110% that the only way to go with new players is to limit their options. But finding and balancing those limits adds more to the GM again. And as I have said, when I am trying to put together a game, usually (not always but often) I am pushed for time. If I go into a game unprepared, especially with the caliber of some of the players I have in my game, it is not as much fun for me as I am constantly worrying about messing up the game balance by winging it. (Have done that too many times in the past three decades) So I have three factors:

1. Need for a lot of prep
2. Pressure brought on by lack of time due to other life situations
3. Two systems, one that has tons of ready made details, easy to modify, and the other almost completely devoid of pre-made modules and whose system is so wide open I have to also work harder to maintain balance.

Put those three together and simply put, D20 wins for me hands down every time.

And before anyone thinks otherwise, I LOVE the HERO system. I think it is AWESOME. If I had more time to work on it and/or there were more resources available for me to utilize, I am sure I would migrate to the system for fantasy. But for now I keep it in my bag of tools for non fantasy games only.

One last thing, I think it would work to limit the kid's choices and options when introducing them to Hero...to a point. But they are just too inquisitive and would want to go off in directions counter to those limits every time. With D20 I have the built in excuse "Those are the rules" Plus the one factor I had not mentioned is that when we play I have gotten my wife to play too and she is NOT a long time gamer, and is VERY new to ANY role playing. So keeping to what she knows and has learned has its benefits.

[Glupii]

I would also like to add that Killer Shrike is my Hero of HERO. If I had the time to run all the campaigns spawned in my head from reading his ideas, oy.... how many lifetimes would I spend playing? Not such a bad existence really.

[heatmonkey]

I choose it because of familiarity and flexibility. I first encountered Fantasy Hero with version 1. I still have it. That and the companions. I absolutely loved a system that let me craft my own spells, weapons, etc. 6E is considerably more fleshed out and having been away from gaming for so long, it has been a learning curve. But what I loved about it to begin with is still there.