Newbie to HERO needing advice about world building

[Madfable]

Hello all! First post! A little about myself, I've been a long time gamer. A pass-time hobby as times, an obsession similar to crack at others. Either way, I've been dabbling with it for many years and never see myself stopping. However... I've found it as time went on, I required MORE from my games and systems. As a result, I tend to like building my own worlds. Some systems lend itself well to it, others not so much.

So now my small little group wants another game, and I want to build it. So I went in search for a system that would work well with world building. After many weeks of researching and checking off dozens of systems, I've narrowed it down to three. Gurps (who saw that coming?), Savage Worlds, and of course, HERO.

So here are two simple questions! What books do I need to build a High Fantasy world with HERO? And how do these three systems compare? I've played some GURPs, a little Savage World, but I know nothing about HERO. Every review I've read about HERO has been favorable, and it seems very flexible so I can get the world exactly as I wish it. But still, my knowledge is very limited. So advice and tips are most appreciated!

Thanks everyone!

[gojira]

For books, you'll need the core rule books (volumes 1 & 2). For fantasy, you don't strictly need anything besides the core books, but to make your life easier (and saner) you'll want Fantasy Hero, the Grimoire (first one especially), and the Bestiary. It also wouldn't hurt to have one example of a worked out game world. I'd recommend Tuala Morn, which is low fantasy mostly but has an option to crank-up the power level.

Right now, things are a little in flux. The company hit a rough patch financially, and not every item is currently in stock, or translated to the newest edition (6e). However, 6e is very similar to the previous edition, and you can use the previous 5e books just fine. You don't even have to translate, the 5e books work fine as-is. Just the point totals are different, and there's been some adjustments which only apply to character creation.

Now here's a question for you: what sort of "high fantasy" are you envisioning? Because there might be some adjustments to the recommended book list depending on exactly which route you want to go.

[Steve Long]

Let me start off with a question: what do you mean by "High Fantasy"? Do you mean a D&D-ish style world with lots of non-human races, lots of monsters, plentiful and powerful magic, etc. (That's how I'd define it, but I don't want to make any assumptions.)

For the HERO System rules as a whole, you need either The HERO System 6th Edition rulebook (a two-book set, hardcover full color) or The HERO System Basic Rulebook (a much smaller softcover b&w book that "condenses" the full rulebook into 144 pages). At the most fundamental level, that's really all you need; you can use the elements of the HERO System to build anything you want.

However, to save yourself some trouble, you might want to pick up books where we discuss how to do Fantasy stuff with the HERO System, or do some of the work for you in advance. Specifically I'd recommend Fantasy Hero (Fantasy genre book with lots of Racial Templates, Professional Templates, weapons, magic systems/spells, and other resources, as well as great discussion of genre-related issues), The HERO System Grimoire (hundreds of pre-built spells), and The HERO System Bestiary (hundreds of pre-built monsters and creatures). Depending on the style of your game, The HERO System Equipment Guide and/or HERO System Martial Arts may also be helpful.

If you want to see a HERO System example of a setting similar to Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms, check out The Turakian Age. For a different High Fantasy setting for a slightly more "mythological" flavor, try The Atlantean Age. Our other Fantasy settings include The Valdorian Age (a Swords And Sorcery-style setting) and Tuala Morn (an Irish/Celtic-themed Low Fantasy setting). These settings all use the 5th Edition rules, but the changes from 5E to 6E won't mess you up setting-wise.

Hope that helps, and that you decide to give the HERO System a try.

[teh bunneh]

Welcome Madfable! I don't really have anything to add to Steve and Gojira's posts, but I'd just like to say that I'm a world-builder too, and I've never found a game system as amenable to DYI-ers like myself as HERO is. I build my own magic systems, tweak monsters, create martial arts styles, give fighters and rogues unique special powers to match the wizards, and on and on.

I used to be a GURPS guy and I still have a lot of fondness for that system, but Hero gives me the tools I need to build my settings the way I want them.

[mayapuppies]

Don't forget Here Be Dragons from D3 Games that has rather interesting takes on monsters and critters based on historical medieval bestiaries.

And of course, Kamarathin: Kingdom of Tursh for a different take on a fantasy setting that melds High Fantasy tropes with Low Fantasy aesthetics.

[brionl]

If you want to see what you're getting into, the PDF for the Basic Rulebook can be purchased from the online store fairly cheaply.

[torchwolf]

So here are two simple questions! What books do I need to build a High Fantasy world with HERO? And how do these three systems compare? I've played some GURPs, a little Savage World, but I know nothing about HERO. Every review I've read about HERO has been favorable, and it seems very flexible so I can get the world exactly as I wish it. But still, my knowledge is very limited. So advice and tips are most appreciated!

Thanks everyone!

Hi and welcome!
First question has already been answered pretty extensively.
Just want to add that if you are interested in rich detail, you should take a look at Hero System Skills, available in pdf, which gives you more detail on what you can do with Skills than any other game supplement I've ever seen (and I've been into RPGs since 1979).
I'll also mention that if you wonder about editions, the 6th Edition rulebooks contain conversion advice for those specific cases where things have changed or been renamed.

In answer to your second question - how GURPS, Savage Worlds and the Hero System compare (WARNING: Wall of Text ahead!):
Hero is a toolkit as well as a game system, which lets to pick elements and ideas from other games and game systems or your own ideas, and build them with the rules
While you can do that in other systems, Hero reasons from effect, which means you can easily balance new abilities against existing ones or against each other.
GURPS has a similar idea but doesn't allow you to build things from the foundation, since that system relies on pre-built ability packages; in Hero, you can build an ability package from scratch.
This allows you to, for instance, adapt packages from game resources like d20 and build them in Hero.
Also, it allows us here on the Hero discussion boards to come up with home-brew ideas and discuss them in relation to the rules, where in most systems you'd have to guesstimate such comparisons.
That's an additional Hero System resource - you can find adaptations of most game systems used for fantasy games adapted for use with the Hero System here, on the Fantasy Hero forum (as well as tips, hints and build advice).
(I'll leave it up to Susano, KillerShrike, and others, to offer links to their own gaming resources. )

In gameplay, Hero is easy. It uses only d6, low roll for success, high roll for effect.
3d6 Rolls against your Skill plays out similarly to GURPS, though Hero gives you many more possible tactical options in combat, and the SPD characteristic lets you handle fast-reacting vs slow-reacting opponents against each other. You can also build totally new maneuvers using the rules, build ordinary or magical weapons, use Hit Location rules and Impairing/Disabling Wound rules, Encumbrance, or in general use the parts of the rules you want in a modular fashion. Complex or simple - depends on how many optional rules you want to use to reflect the style you want.

My personal opinion of GURPS vs Savage Worlds vs Hero System:
I've read the GURPS rules and played it, and while I've heard comments that it's more realistic than Hero, I disagree. GURPS just states absolutes, and you can do that in Hero as well, but you retain the options to do things differently than the authors reasoned things should work. Using Hero with the more lethal and/or realistic options lets you play in a swashbuckling fantasy saga, low-fantasy gritty realistic style, or fantastic high fantasy epic, as you prefer, much more easily than you can alter the GURPS rules to fit your personal GMing preferences.
Savage Worlds, I have not played, but I've read through the rules and compared it to Hero and other systems. It is definitely more rules-light than Hero, which will also allow you to play to your personal preferences as GM, but it will also require you to painstakingly do your own analysis of how game elements compare to each other, for which the rules will not offer you help. Also, the different dice used also mean the game system produces fairly random and probably inconsistent results.

So in conclusion, it depends on your GMing style:
Hero may require more preparatory work (for which the resource books mentioned are immensely useful), but it gives you the most freedom to design the way you want your world to work.
I suspect this is what you want to do, since you're leaning towards those systems rather than d20 (where you can surely add elements, but there is no given internal logic except by personally comparing a lot of possible effects of everything you add to the rules).

[Madfable]

Wow, a lot of info to take in. You guys have given me alot to consider.

At this point I've pretty much decided on HERO, I think. While I liked the simplicity of Savage worlds, I found it just a little constricting when world building. As for GURPS. It's too... realistic and gritty for my tastes.

Now, when I say HIGH fantasy. I think... Earthdawn. The only real difference is I raise local superstition and lower the normality of magic. It is vastly powerful, but you've got to earn it. Lots of creatures, lots of races (NON-generic dndish), floating islands, etc etc.

What books do you think I need minimally? I was thinking, the two core books, HERO fantasy and the best airy? Then I would branch out from there.

I am however having one really awful problem... I cannot find the character core book anywhere. I know you guys mentioned HERO is having some financial problems... are they about to go bankrupt? =(

[bigbywolfe]

Wow, a lot of info to take in. You guys have given me alot to consider.

At this point I've pretty much decided on HERO, I think. While I liked the simplicity of Savage worlds, I found it just a little constricting when world building. As for GURPS. It's too... realistic and gritty for my tastes.

Now, when I say HIGH fantasy. I think... Earthdawn. The only real difference is I raise local superstition and lower the normality of magic. It is vastly powerful, but you've got to earn it. Lots of creatures, lots of races (NON-generic dndish), floating islands, etc etc.

What books do you think I need minimally? I was thinking, the two core books, HERO fantasy and the best airy? Then I would branch out from there.

I am however having one really awful problem... I cannot find the character core book anywhere. I know you guys mentioned HERO is having some financial problems... are they about to go bankrupt? =(

Last question first. No, they are not going bankrupt. They have just downsized form 3 full time employees to 1. That being said, their next book was offered as a Kickstarter and has already raised enough funds to be printed. The Character Creation book is currently out of stock. It should be reprinted eventually. However, if you look at the hero store you will see they have damaged copies for $20. Pretty good deal and the "damage" is usually less noticable than what I do to a book after just a couple weeks of carrying it around.

At the bare minimum you would need the Hero System Basic Rule Book. Since you seem to have already made up your mind I would suggest skipping that and getting the two Core books (Character Creation and Combat & Adventuring). Those are all you absolutely need to play the game. I have to tell you though, suppliments can take a lot of work off the GM so I would highly recomend Fantasy HERO and the Bestiary. Even if you don't use anything out of either book "as written" it will give you a good place to start. I often find it easier to modify something similar to what I was looking for than to re-invent the wheel building everything from scratch all the time and since you are new to the system I think they would be very useful for you.

[Ninja-Bear]

Hello Madfable. It might be useful to look under the free links and look for the Hero System Genre by Genre (its free). It goes through the major Genre that people play, such as Super hero and Fantasy. Even though its in 5th ed, there are some sample characters in each genre. This I think will help you to grasp the reason from effect axiom in Hero. And as Bigbywolfe mentioned, Fantasy Hero and the Bestriary are great books for time savers. In Hero if you find the Dragon too wimpy, you can change it to your taste in power or what attacks to use.

As for races-non-generic dndish? Could you give an example of what your thinking?

[Madfable]

Well, I've looked over what material I could get my hands on. Overall, I think I like the system. I'm going to have to put the game on the backburner though. My group is going through financial troubles, so they can't pitch in for that many books. I was going to just go the PDF route since I have a nice tablet, but the PDF prices are REALLY high. We're probably going to have to go SW for now. I hope we get the chance to come back to HERO though. I does look pretty spiffy!

[Captain Obvious]

If money's an issue (and it is, all over, these days) I'd recommend getting the Basic book at least, so you can tinker with it. The boards here are a great way to learn the ins and outs of the system, and they make a good sounding board for trying out your ideas and such.

[Killer Shrike]

Everything you need is in the 6th Edition Basic Ruleook (the one with the hero in a circle).

People like to say, oh for this we've got this book, and for that we've got that book and look they're so BIG because a) lots of people want to buy something that tells them what to do rather than do it themselves, and b) companies have to sell books to perpetuate themselves.

But for me the real beauty of the HERO System is that you really do just need one book and you can make literally practically ANY campaign you want from it without any other resource. I ran about a dozen wildly different campaigns out of the 4th Edition HERO System rulebook #500 back in the day, which was only as thick as my thumb. The Basic Rulebook is the 6th Edition analogue to that amazing rulebook. It's super inexpensive. If money is an issue, it's a real bargain and you should glance at it before making a decision.

[Madfable]

Little update. So I bit the bullet so to speak and bought the books. The two main vol, fantasy hero, equipment, Magic book, and bestiary. Also purchased some mapmaping software by Profantasy to assist in world-building. Spent way more than I wanted to, but in the end I think I'll get my money back in usefulness. lol

Any other book suggestions?

[bigbywolfe]

Sounds like you're pretty well set. The only book I'd strongly suggest is Hero System Martial Arts. More manuevers and rules for building your own are very useful IMO. The APGs (I only have the first one so far) have a lot of neat stuff but are not really needed for many people. Other than that you start getting into genre or setting books.