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Thread: "Fixing" FASERIP

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    "Fixing" FASERIP

    First, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    For the most part, I don't think that FASERIP is broken. However, there are a few areas that get constant complaints, so I'm starting a thread to discuss some simple to implement "fixes" to make the game more palatable for folks.

    Essentially, some house rules that aren't as intrusive as a lot of "fixes" found on the Web.

    What Works:

    The Universal Table. It's the heart of the system. It's got to stay.

    Intensities. Makes it easy to reslove a lot of stuff quickly, and to quickly create powers if needed.

    Most of the other stuff. Most of the rules for various things strongly evoke a Silver/Bronze Age comic book feel, and work well enough. I won't address those in this post, though I'd like to hear any feedback on any subsystems that might benefit from some tweaking.

    Problem Areas:

    Single roll to hit and for effect. It makes the game run very quickly, but it creates a mental disconnect with a lot of players. It seems to really bother people that it takes the same roll to hit Aunt May as it does Thanos. Combat in most systems is some kind of opposed roll. The opponent's skill or armor or whatever, has some effect on the outcome.

    Proposed "fix": Split the single roll into two rolls. The first would be a Hit roll based on the relative intensities of the attacker's and defender's relevent stats. The second would be a roll for effect. Color shifting is limited to a lower limit of White or upper limit of Red. So, not autohit or automiss. The one exception may be using Mook rules for autohits below white intensity to speed up combat against large groups of agents. I'd suggest no automiss for the mooks in this case, though, as it would trivialize them just a bit too much.

    Armor is too powerful. It really bugs people that armor, force fields, and other defensive abilities are absolute. If you have an Am (50) damage attack, and an Am (50) defense, the attack isn't getting through. This is pretty much inline with comics, though. Spider-Man can't put a dent in Juggernaut, but he can leverage his smarts, his agility, and his ability to hurl insults to trick Juggernaut into burying himself in fresh concrete.

    Proposed "fix". GM responsibility. Encourage the use of creative solutions to high defense characters, or don't make the match up in the first place. This is a comic book game, and should encourage comic book problems with comic book solutions. Most characters do not have absolute defenses against everything. If the work around for the defense isn't a power possessed by the players, then the GM should encourage them to use makeshift substitutes or use other tactics, or power stunts to get the job done. A big help here would be to encourage Karma spending and discourage Karma hoarding, which leads to our next trouble area...

    Karma Hoarding. The Karma system has one major problem: It's used for advancement and to modify rolls in play and for power stunting. The costs for advancement are high, and players sometimes want to save up to advance their character, perhaps to shore up a weak roll from random character generation. On the GM side, the Karma system can result in a lot of book keeping that needs to be done on the fly. The game works best when the Karama flows freely and in real time. Hoarding Karma and waiting until the end of the adventure to make rewards of Karma both impede the flow of Karma.

    Proposed solution.

    Get rid of the Karama costs for advancement as a seperate expense.

    Power Stunts already become permanent after ten tries (note: "tries", not "successes" player's book, pg 17). These should be the primary means of adding additional "powers" to characters.

    For increasing the ranks in a Power or Ability, allow Pushing as a Red FEAT roll. After a set number (probably more than ten, but I haven't worked out a good number to pace character growth) of successes, the rank increases by one column. GMs may want to limit the number of these push attempts per session, and/or require they be dramatically appropriate (i.e., tripping a character's psych limit, following a major setback, or saving the world). (Note: Pushing damage up a column shift also helps with the Armor/defense issue to a degree.)

    Award Karma in real time, if possible. I'm not sure what the RAW say on this, but it keeps the flow up.

    Give the players opportunities to gain karma during "down time" activities, or in their civilian life. A lot of games may focus on getting to the action/plot, but less on civilian or off time activities. In this case, encouraging blue booking or player to player roleplaying, with summaries given to the GM (or copies in PBEM games) will help. Some limits should be placed on non-moderated play/blue booking, so that those players who have a more literary bent or more free time don't dominate, though.

    Ok, those are the "big issues" I keep seeing mentioned about the system. Any suggestions to these proposed "fixes"? Any other areas where the system is lacking from your personal point of view?
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Well now to be fair when the Ultimate Powers book came out it added a lot of granularity to the Stat Ranges so you weren't always running into absolutes. The Column Shifts were what made the one roll system work on the chart (same to be said for the Megs system as well)....

    So if you were using UP, I don't see much that really needed to be fixed....

    Now the Karma mechanic there.....yeah that could use some work and thought....

    ~Rex

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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    How did UP add granularity? I've got it on my hard drive, and I'm pretty sure it didn't do squat to the stat ranges.
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Well, IIRC, it permitted you to buy stats/powers to intermediate levels, so you could have an Amazing blast that did 48 points of damage instead of 50, for example.
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    It's been many long years since I played FASERIP Marvel, but I remember my big issue with it was the extreme randomness of character generation. It's not always fun playing the sidekick, watching the more powerful guys beating down the likes of Titania while you try to rough up Paste-Pot Pete. And if one of the tough guys decides to give Pete a noogie, you're relegated to the sidelines for the rest of the fight.

    Did anyone ever come out with a point-buy system or a crappy-roll mitigation procedure or something?
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    It turned it from One Number, to a Spread of Numbers. Amazing (50) went from just 50 flat, to a spread of points where 50 was about in the middle (46-62 was Amazing). Trying to recall what had the modification in it but it added a lot of mixup to the game, basically putting part of the advancement into play early, and it helped keep down Karma hording as well. Made the demo's for it a lot more competitive with the other "Super Hero" games out there at the time. Thinking back on it it's the players book of the advanced edition, right in the beginning. Generated PC's started at the bottom of the Rank Range for abilities and powers, and that then combined with some of the UPB and other books which tossed in column shifts based on origin that shifted the range around, and you could end up with more granularity then just the static numbers especially once the game got going ..... Last long term campaign it wasn't uncommon to see a guy with Amazing 60 Str smashing the crap out of the guy with Amazing 49 Body Armor......

    Gonna dig out the box and find the exact books though .....my pdf copy of the UPB has a bunch of stuff hashed in from various Dragon Articles as well ....always best to go back to the dead tree copies when possible......

    The whole Idea of FASERIP though was to keep everything on it's respective comic book keel. Always felt it did it's job very well, and had a ton of fun Demoing it back in the T$R days.....

    ~Rex

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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Quote Originally Posted by megaplayboy View Post
    Well, IIRC, it permitted you to buy stats/powers to intermediate levels, so you could have an Amazing blast that did 48 points of damage instead of 50, for example.
    That's a core rule, not UP book. Well, core to the Advanced rules, that is.
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Did anyone ever come out with a point-buy system or a crappy-roll mitigation procedure or something?
    Power choices in the Advanced set were up to the player, only the category for each power was rolled. Nothing much on the power and ability ranks, though. Random character generation did tend to create a wide spread of power levels. I think the GM was expected to deal with that problem as they saw fit, though I don't think that the rules mentioned it.

    The alternate character generation system was modelling, basically negotiating with the GM for your character's abilities. That lets players get much closer to what they want, while letting the GM control relative power levels.

    In this Blog entry from Jeff Grubb, he explains the history of character generation in the game:

    22) When we did the Basic MSH, Marvel didn't want us to put in any character generation - they wanted people to play Marvel character (which makes sense). We put in a rudimentary system in the back. When it came time to do the Advanced Set, Marvel sent the note "Whatever you do, be sure to put in a character generation system. That's what fans really want to see." I'm not bashing on Marvel here - they were learning like we were learning.
    There was also this "With Great Power" article from Polyhedron that outlined a point buy method for FASERIP.
    Last edited by Pattern Ghost; Jan 24th, '12 at 04:32 PM.
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern Ghost View Post
    That's a core rule, not UP book. Well, core to the Advanced rules, that is.
    Right... Hey doing the best I can on a smart phone with a 4 inch screen and trying to stretch the noodle at the end of the day back to books I haven't used in over 20 years, heh. I still seem to recall a generation chart that gave a number within the stat range as well as the basic range, combined with the UPB CS modifier for origin type.

    When I find the box I'll check the real books and see why I recall it that way. Always thought that system could have benefited from a hardcoded stat range that you generated upon creation. Roll Amazing whatever, then another roll to determine where in Amazing you really were...

    Need to get Jeff Grub on the Horn..... Wonder who ended up with the rights to that system in it's totality.

    ~Rex

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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Quote Originally Posted by RexMundi View Post
    Right... Hey doing the best I can on a smart phone with a 4 inch screen and trying to stretch the noodle at the end of the day back to books I haven't used in over 20 years, heh. I still seem to recall a generation chart that gave a number within the stat range as well as the basic range, combined with the UPB CS modifier for origin type.
    Heh, no problem. I just got confused for a minute and thought I missed something obvious in the UPB. The way they did it was to basically use the round numbers for pre-generated characters, and start new characters at the bottom of the range in the Advanced rules. That way, Spidey may have an IN (40) STR, but Arachnid Joe the PC would have an IN (36). The idea was that you were playing less experienced heroes. It did kind of suck using fresh characters vs. pregenned villains, though.

    Our group went one further and just used raw d% rolls for stats. We got some variety in numbers, but some incredibly overpowered characters too. The GM just threw bigger threats at us. We were pretty RP-oriented though, so the impact was minimal.

    Need to get Jeff Grub on the Horn..... Wonder who ended up with the rights to that system in it's totality.

    ~Rex
    Apparently, whoever had it put it out for the public to do with as it wanted. At one point, TSR even had a link to the ClassicMarvel.com site on their page, where all the PDFs for the game were hosted. Apparently, some third party who had NO claim on the license filed a complaint at some point, and the site was shut down, so they moved it to ClassicMarvelForever.com and did that with TSR's blessing. Neither Marvel nor TSR have ever had the stuff removed, even though it came to their attention because of the aforementioned third party action.
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Quote Originally Posted by megaplayboy View Post
    Well, IIRC, it permitted you to buy stats/powers to intermediate levels, so you could have an Amazing blast that did 48 points of damage instead of 50, for example.
    I think that was a Dragon Magazine article. The UPB just had new powers, and power origins. - oops. I'm wrong the Dragon Article allowed for Rolling so there was a variance of damage so that an Amazing attack could possibly exceed Amazing defense.

    I loved the version of Hyper Intellect that allowed for temporary use.
    Last edited by Enforcer84; Jan 24th, '12 at 09:14 PM.
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    There was a variable damage article. I found the numbers posted in a thread on RPG.net earlier today. The dice basically average out to the standard rank number for each rank. Kind of a lot of extra stuff to track.

    Being unable to damage another character never bothered us. There's always another way to do damage, a way to boost damage, or the option to do something other than damage. At least there should be in a decent game.

    The Ultron fight would have been a boring bit of comic history if the Avengers waited on high die rolls to wear Ultron down, wouldn't it?
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern Ghost View Post
    There was a variable damage article. I found the numbers posted in a thread on RPG.net earlier today. The dice basically average out to the standard rank number for each rank. Kind of a lot of extra stuff to track.

    Being unable to damage another character never bothered us. There's always another way to do damage, a way to boost damage, or the option to do something other than damage. At least there should be in a decent game.

    The Ultron fight would have been a boring bit of comic history if the Avengers waited on high die rolls to wear Ultron down, wouldn't it?
    I was once in Undermountain, the "Mad Mage" dungeon under Waterdeep in Forgotten Realms. At low level we ran into a diamond golem in a room full of treasure. Our magic weapons were not good enough to hurt it. The only attacks that did anything were big spells, and they were running out fast.

    Ghar the "100% STR" dwarven battlerager climbed up the golem's midsection and began chewing on it.

    The golem ignored the dwarf by shooting laser beams at Fizznic... which was really not nice.

    The priest of Moradin was taxed.

    Half the party left the room with the door open. Mind you, in the prior room, Shandar Vril (the elven undead slaying ranger) chose to open the giant ruby coffin and fight the ghost within all by himself... while the rest played tick-tack-toe in dungeon dust outside the closed door. And the loot from that kill had been split evenly. Shandar didn't even get the talking long sword with the spirit of an elven ranger in it.

    So Shandar started opening treasure chests looking for the good stuff, & finds a Girdle Of Fire Giant STR and subsequently super-magic bow & arrows. W/ these he unloads on the golem like Rama on Ravana, eventually destroying it.

    Ghar wanted the girdle, but the net damage increase to the party would not have been great, so he reluctantly let it go.

    Later (in the above City of Waterdeep) Shandar went back to the tarvern where he had been beat up & trashed the local protagonists like Superman 2.
    Last edited by Mister E; Jan 25th, '12 at 11:38 AM.
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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    A house rule that we used in FASERIP was that the Leadership talent didn't give the team a one-time Karma bonus, but the Karma bonus regenerated after each session (so the team Karma pool always had at least 50 points at the beginning of each session, assuming the Leadership character was there). Taking Leadership if it gave only a one-time bonus was a waste, in our experience.

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    Re: "Fixing" FASERIP

    I think FASERIP works well just as it is. The only downside I can see is that you can't build your powers to do what you want like you can with Hero System and have to choose from a list of powers. But almost every game is like that. FASERIP is especially good for introducing kids and non-RPGers to RPGs as it's easy to understand and play is fast-paced. It's much better than Hero System for that (in my opinion)--Hero System tends to scare people off.
    Last edited by Kap; Feb 11th, '12 at 02:43 PM.

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