Club Weapon at range?

[Ozymandias]

I'm in the process of building a character who is a "technical pacifist" in that, he won't kill or do irreparable harm to his enemies, but he's not so much a pacifist that he won't fight: if he needs to incapacitate them, he'll do so. He's skilled enough to be able to shoot the helmets of his foes, or use the environment to do damage, instead of direct weapon damage (for those of you who have seen/read Trigun, think some of the trick shots Vash does). So basically, I need to turn Killing attacks he makes into normal stun attacks. I originally made a build of:

Blast 12d6, OIF (-1/2; Firearms of opportunity), DC is limited to the DC of the focus (-1/2), Charges: Based on Focus (-0), Must be aimed at Appropriate Location (-3/4) [60 active points, 22 real cost]

But that was a bit expensive, and I remembered Club Weapon, which did what I was looking for, for HTH weapons. Unfortunately I didn't see an option for ranged attacks (apart from the bit, of using the gun as a Club, but that doesn't really apply here). So I'm wondering, what would you cost a talent or Ranged Martial art that allows Club Weapon at range?

[Ninja-Bear]

Is this for a Heroic level or Super? I ask because at heroic, you can put range on HA, but not in supers. And I think the tittle throws me off alittle, do you mean (which I think you are) to do the same damage as a killing attack but using normal dice and looking at the "club" rules? Or, are you just throwing a club at range? tHe problem of course is that there is no easy way to make an attack switch as such. I guess if I would do a custom talent figure out a multipower with the largest attack you want. Make one slot utra killing and make the other slot ultra energy blast, then use point for slot two for your talent?

[Ozymandias]

6e Heroic, and I think you misunderstand my question. "Club Weapon" is an optional combat maneuver (I think it also existed in 5e), meant to symbolize Hitting someone with the hilt of a sword, or the flat of the blade, or (if the GM allows) hitting them with the butt of the gun. It basically turns the DC of a killing attack into STUN damage. I can't have it be a multipower, since it's Heroic, and the option I had above is too expensive

[Lucius]

In the first place, no rule prevents a heroic character from having a multipower.

In the second, he wasn't suggesting a multipower - he was suggesting using the cost of a multipower slot as a rational basis for costing a custom taent.

edit:
And you should really talk to the person running the game and see if this character concept is even workable.

I know if I were running a heroic game and you came to me with this, I'd probably say "No way. You want to be a pacifist, you can can avoid using guns."

But you might consider the option of "pulling your punch" which as far as I know can be applied to ranged attacks.

Lucius Alexander

Club Palindromedary

[JmOz]

If heroic, why don't you just carry a selection of rubber bullets? Slightly different I know, but just an idea...

[Captain Obvious]

Beanbag rounds are fun too, if you're using a shotgun.

[Ozymandias]

I know heroic characters can have a multipower, but the whole point was that that would cost just as much as buying the gun not as equipment. However, on second glance, I see what he was suggesting, and, that may work. And, isn't pulling your punch meant more for normal Stun attacks against normals, so you don't kill someone with super-strength? And rubber Bullets aren't really an option, since it's Victorian hero (well, not exactly, but for all intents and purposes, for this thread, it is).

I do like the idea of costing it as if it were in a multi-power, though. I think I may have to use that.

[Ninja-Bear]

Well if its Victorian, it could be custom rubber bullets, or rock salt, or some sort of cork? Depending of course how realistic you'd like it to be.

[Kraven Kor]

It is basically a question of the 'dramatic realism' of the campaign.

If the players and GM are OK with using a Gun to deal normal damage, whether via rubber bullets or 'trick shots' built as a custom ranged "club weapon" maneuver, go for it. Strictly by the rules, there is no ranged 'club weapon' maneuver, that I know of

[bigbywolfe]

Is this for a Heroic level or Super? I ask because at heroic, you can put range on HA, but not in supers.

Not to completely derail the thread, but could you please tell me where to find that?

[Fireg0lem]

I think your problem is coming from "DC is limited to the DC of the focus" being worth way more than you put it down as; if an ability seems way too expensive, it probably means you built it too expensively. I actually think that limitation should be -2. Also, you need Lockout (Focus's normal powers) so you can't Combined Attack that with a regular attack. You may want Real Weapon and Beam as well.

[Sean Waters]

I would probably allow you to use the 'club weapon' maneouvre with firearms. 6.2.84 says this:

Whether a character can perform Club Weapon with a given weapon is up to the GM.

For the right sort of game, I would say 'go for it'. A suggestion, however...

Look at 'Pulling a Punch'. Not supposed to be used for ranged attacks either, but I for one do not see why not AND I like the mechanic batter and it has the possibility of going wrong, which adds to dramatic tension.

You will need GM approval either way, but if it was me, I know which one I would approve.