Realistic Monetary Systems in FH

[Ozymandias]

I've been thinking about something for a campaign setting I'm working on, and I was wondering if anyone has played in a game with a "realistic" monetary system? By that I mean 12 copper = 1 silver, 20 silver = 1 gold, like the pre-decimal Pound Sterling, the French Franc and Livre (which as far as I can tell, was worth exactly the same), the Roman Currency system, and some others, I can't remember. But yeah. I think I like the system in abstract, but I feel it could be difficult to keep up with, compared to the simplicity of the decimal system.

[Captain Obvious]

I've played other games that used that system. IIRC, Warhammer uses it. It's not too difficult. I personally like monetary systems that aren't "metric standard"...they feel more naturally evolved and less designed.

[Old Man]

I'd be inclined to go halfway and perhaps abandon the decimal system, but still use some regular progression such that I could still do the math easily in my head. If 1 gold = 8 silver = 64 copper, that's still way easier for me than this:

2 farthings = 1 halfpenny
2 halfpence = 1 penny (1d)
3 pence = 1 thruppence (3d)
6 pence = 1 sixpence (a 'tanner') (6d)
12 pence = 1 shilling (a bob) (1s)
2 shillings = 1 florin ( a 'two bob bit') (2s)
2 shillings and 6 pence = 1 half crown (2s 6d)
5 shillings = 1 Crown (5s)

Only the English could think up a monetary system like that.

[Captain Obvious]

You forgot guineas (21 shillings)

[Ozymandias]

Only the English could think up a monetary system like that.

True, but the french came close. As did the Romans. Spanish was a bit different, but still had something akin (8 peso = 1 real; 20 reals = 1 dubloon, I think, with various other subdivisions as it got used more for trans-Atlantic trading) There were a couple other ones not quite so complex, but still a bit. Besides, most of the british coins weren't used all that often. Especially the Guinea, but the Half-crown, also didn't really get much use.

[NuSoardGraphite]

No thank you. Give me decimals or give me death!

Now, funky exchange rates I have no problem with. If you want to convert gold from Sel Kai over to Rhakkhanian silver, divide by 8.3 instead of 10. That's cool. Other than that a more "realistic" monetary system just makes it hard on every body, including me, and that's bad. Considering that our own money system (and most throughout the civilized world) is based on 10.0 system, I have no problem with this method.

[Old Man]

I've always liked the idea of differentiating monies for campaign purposes without necessarily messing with exchange rates. Coinage from foreign lands could come in the form of rings, or sticks, or squares. If purity can be determined, coins could be converted on the basis of weight. And we had one campaign where the gold coins brought up from the ancient ruins were clearly identifiable as such, and when the PCs started spending them, it attracted a lot of attention...

[Lawnmower Boy]

I've been thinking about something for a campaign setting I'm working on, and I was wondering if anyone has played in a game with a "realistic" monetary system? By that I mean 12 copper = 1 silver, 20 silver = 1 gold, like the pre-decimal Pound Sterling, the French Franc and Livre (which as far as I can tell, was worth exactly the same), the Roman Currency system, and some others, I can't remember. But yeah. I think I like the system in abstract, but I feel it could be difficult to keep up with, compared to the simplicity of the decimal system.

It's not a trimetallic standard. That's a D&Dism. It's money. You can make your coins out of anything you like, although it's best to make valuable ones out of gold and silver, because the demand for plate will support the "price of money." (Bleeah. You know what premoderns needed? A clearer understanding of the theory of value. You know what moderns need? Less Ron Paul.)

And the denominations are easy to keep track off. Just remember that it's based on 12 and 20. Think of it as a base 12 system, doubled, which is what all of the European monetary systems were. They're all based on the original Carolingian coinage, and that coinage is based on the assumption that you need to have as many ways to make change as possible, or people will start cutting up the coins. 2, 3, 4 and 6 go into 12, and 5 goes into 20, and Bob's your uncle.

[Chris Goodwin]

History of money: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_money
Fictional currency: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_currency

--
Chris "asking the palindromedary for permission to play The Question Man" Goodwin

[Cancer]

Also remember that an important economic variable can be relative worth of gold and silver (the "bimetallic ratio"). This operated historically in medieval and Renaissance times, because China considered silver to be more valuable relative to gold than the West did. So it was possible in principle to turn a profit by exchanging your gold bullion into silver bullion in Italy, transporting the silver to China, and once there exchanging the opposite sense (so you'd have more gold after the second exchange than you had before the first one). What usually happened, of course, is that people bought trade goods (silks, spices, etc.) with their silver in China and got more profit when they sold those goods back in the West, and this whole picture oversimplifies away the costs of transport and protecting your capital from pirates and robbers.

But, if you have a two-metal money system in your game world, you can have the two metals have different relative values in different places. But that level of economics is even more arcane than a non-decimal currency system, so I've never heard of it actually used in a game-world economy.

[bluesguy]

I think I will stick with Valdorian Age's 10 copper = 1 silver and ~400 sp = 1 gold bar. Good luck finding a gold coin or bar in my campaign.

[Kraven Kor]

I just use the normal decimal system for prices, but advise the players they are actually using whatever random amount of the local currency, or weighted trade bars or the like, rather than "a bag full of generic gold coins."

[AndyStaples]

A brief rundown on old English LSD money in the middle ages (ie, I won't be considering renaissance-era coins like the silver shilling).

The units are Librum (£) - pound; sestercius (s) - shilling; and denarius (d) - penny.

Up until the 13th century, only the penny was a minted coin. The other units existed only for accounting purposes, alongside other units such as the mark (see below), which have not survived into modern usage.

The penny was made of relatively pure silver, and weighed about 1.5g. The usual format was the name and image of the reigning monarch on the obverse and a cross on the reverse. The cross aided in cutting the coin into pieces.

Pieces? Yes. Originally, a half-penny was just that - half a penny. No half-penny coin was minted. A quarter of a penny was termed a farthing.

The accounting values were (as others have noted) £1 = 20s = 240d.

Other accounting units were the silver mark, worth 13s 4d, or 160d (2/3 of a pound) and the rarer gold mark (the value of that escapes me). A reference to just a mark, without specifying the metal, will almost certainly refer to the silver mark.

Merchants who wanted higher-value coins used Arabic or Byzantine gold coins.

In 1216, the regents of the young king Henry III introduced the gold penny, with a value of 20d (1s 8d). It was not popular and fell into disuse by the 1260s. It's thought the gold content was actually worth more than the value of the coin (about 24d), and most of them were melted down for profit. No other gold coins were introduced until the 14th century.

In the reign of Edward I (1272-1307), the first silver farthings were minted. The farthing didn't become a copper coin until the early modern period (early 1600s).

Also during Edward I's reign the silver groat was issued. It was worth 4d, though it weighed less than four pennies (and its weight was progressively reduced until it only weighed three pennyweights).

That does us for English medieval silver coinage: penny (1d), farthing (1/4d) and groat (4d).

With the exception of the failed gold penny, no gold coins were issued until 1344.

In that year came the florin, also known as a double-leopard, a gold coin weighing 7 grams and worth 6s (72d). It was based on (and named after) coins from Florence. The gold used was overvalued and the coin was withdrawn from use within months. The same fate befell the half-florin (3s) and quarter-florin (1s 6d), introduced at the same time.

The noble, issued a few months after the florin and half-florin (many of the unpopular florins were melted down to make it) was worth 6s 8d (80d, £1/3). It weighed 9g. It was the first widely-circulating gold coin.

In 1464, in the face of high gold prices, the value of the noble was increased to 8s 4d (100d) and the weight reduced to prevent the coins being sold abroad for their gold value, but the change proved unpopular and the coin was withdrawn in the 1470s.

The older noble coin was replaced in 1465 with the lighter gold Angel, with a value of 6s 8d, which proved popular. The Half-Angel, introduced in 1472, was worth 3s 4d.

In 1489 the first Sovereign was issued by Henry VII, with a value of £1 (20s, 240d). It weighs 15.5g. No value was pressed into the coin; it was treated as bullion.

That about wraps us up with English medieval gold coins.

Recap:

12d = 1s. 240d = 20s = £1.

Silver coins

Coin		Value	Weight	Period
Penny		1d	1.5g	throughout
Farthing	1/4d	0.44g	1270s+
Groat		4d	5.8g	1270s+

Gold Coins

Coin		Value	Weight	Period
Gold Penny	20d	?	1216-1260s
Quarter-florin	18d	?	1344
Half-florin	36d	?	1344
Florin		72d	5.9g	1344
Noble		80d	9g	1344-1464
Noble (reissue)	100d	7.8g	1464-1470s
Angel		80d	5.1g	1465+
Half-Angel	40d	2.6g	1472+
Sovereign	240d	15.5g	1489+

OK, that's the history. How do we apply that to an RPG?

First off, there's nothing wrong with keeping a vaguely metric system of copper, silver and gold coins. It's fantasy convention.

But if you do want more, I'd suggest either a 12th-century model (only silver pennies are available - Harn uses this), a late-13th-century model (farthings, pennies and groats are minted, all silver), or a late-14th-century model (silver farthings, pennies and groats, and the 80d gold Noble).

What of the other coins? They can represent older coins, foreign coins or - as they were in history, failed coins.

Addendum: For those using the encumbrance rules, 1kg of silver pennies is 667d; 1kg of the earlier gold nobles is worth 8,889d (£37 9d); 1kg of the gold Angel is 15,686d (£65 7s 2.25d).

[megaplayboy]

Well, in the states, we had/have penny, nickel, dime, quarter, half-dollar, dollar. 1, 5,10,25, 50,100. Multiples of 5 and/or 10. Most likely a currency system will use proportions based on the number of digits(hands and feet, with or without counting thumbs/big toes--some races might have 3 or 4 or 6 digits per limb). So I could see base 4, 5, 8, 10, 16 or 20 being used. Metals in existence included copper, silver, gold, platinum, bronze, brass, tin, iron and steel. Rarer metals might include electrum, rhodium, iridium, etc. Fantasy metals might include mithril, truesilver or adamant(ite). Set your heirarchy of coins, and then set the next succeeding coin at 2-20 x the value of that, and so on, up the scale. You could even have your "base coin", for example, be a "silver dollar", and then set the value of a "copper nickel" at 1/20th that, and the "gold crown" at 20 silver dollars, with the "platinum sovereign" at 100 silver dollars/5 gold crowns.

[Doc Quantum]

Oh, why do it the easy way? Do it like real people did. Imagine the most commonly purchased goods and services in your fictional society and set values in your fictional currency. By the time your campaign is ready, your players will have lots of time on their hands (being retired and all).