Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

[steriaca]

This is an unoficial Advance Players Guide 3 survay. What would you want to see in APG3? What do you think needs clarifications? What would you add to the system if you could?

[Derek Hiemforth]

Honestly, the thing I would most like to see is a wait of at least a couple of years before an APG3 was seriously considered. I love the books, and I love having cool options for the game, but I think 6E needs to have some more rubber-meeting-the-road time in its rear-view mirror before there'll be enough really good ideas to do a solid APG3.

Having said that (), one thing that might be cool is a "version translator." A set of official guidelines for converting characters from each previous edition of the HERO System into the 6E rules...

[JmOz]

The only thing I would like is a skill system I came up with: Basically each skill would be written as a -/+ to a characteristic roll (1 point is a -4, 2 points -2, 3 points is 0, +2 points/+1) Then in play the GM would decide which characteristic best represents the skill needed, For instance Demolitions might be INT, or DEX based, or could be used to Identify a type of bomb with an INT roll. Another example is that Acrobatics might be used to know who won the Olympic Gold in 92...

[steriaca]

Humm...nice ideals so far. Defently a 'how to convert to 6th' is needed, seeing that there are tons of 4th and 5th edition books around. Heck, there are still a lot of Champions 3 related stuff about.

The skill system sounds cool also.

I would add 'Secondary Endurance' in the stats section (if it is not covered in APG2, that is). That is for the 'eveybody can tap into, but not eveyone knows how to use' campains (Chi, in martial arts centered campains, Mana for Fantacy Hero, Mentel Endurance for 'psichic wars' campains, ect.

I would proably have a guide to creating 'metapowers' (new powers based on using existing powers and tweeking them, like my version of Instant Change).

Options for simulating 'Transfer' better.

Of course, APG3 should be begining to be complied by the begining of next year. As Derek said, there needs to be some time before the next APG, or it would be a rather slim book.

[Steve Long]

As the more or less official Keeper of the Rules, I can shed a little insight on this.

It will be quite literally years and years before there could be an APG3. I used up all the material I had writing APG2, and I've only accumulated a few tidbits since then. Any APG3 I wrote now would be 95% fluff designed simply to pad out a book, and that's definitely something I have no interest in doing. I'm quite content to wait until there's enough actual useful new rules stuff to fill out APG3.

[bluesguy]

It will be quite literally years and years before there could be an APG3. I used up all the material I had writing APG2, and I've only accumulated a few tidbits since then. Any APG3 I wrote now would be 95% fluff designed simply to pad out a book, and that's definitely something I have no interest in doing. I'm quite content to wait until there's enough actual useful new rules stuff to fill out APG3.

Thank you very much Steve. I deeply appreciate your position on this.

[mkultra]

It could be padded with vehicle rules.

[megaplayboy]

1. Alcohol and recreational drugs. Seriously--what are the effects of mild to severe intoxication and/or being "high", in game terms?
2. Mental illness.
3. Reviving the "stress level" and PRE attack effects from 4th edition Horror Hero.
4. The Diceless Hero option. Maybe along with "Point-less Hero".
5. Adjusting real-world objects to a superhero setting(essentially, making it easier for supers to punch through tank armor, shrug off heavy artillery etc.)
6. Damage options--exponential and semi-logarithmic damage progression(with benchmarks); collateral damage; brick tricks like hand claps and shockwaves; extended stunning(e.g., for every 5 stun over the "stun number", -1 to CON roll to recover from being stunned, penalties if you're still being attacked, etc.); non-stun/body damage(e.g. punching someone in the solar plexus to reduce their endurance, hitting them in the arm or leg to reduce mobility/cv, etc.)
7. Relationship rules--obviously an optional rule, but something to at least give the option to flesh out and mechanically resolve dating, relationships/marriage, even physical intimacy.
8. Vehicle rules--terrain effects on movement; visibility; more detailed rules for what happens to the occupants when a vehicle crashes or has a collision; sailing ships and oared vessels; tracked vs. wheeled vs. "walking" vehicles; fuel/range; etc.
9. Modern and futuristic mass combat; fleet (space/naval) combat variants; aerial/space combat variants; superpowered beings in mass combat
10. Perk options--Popularity; more money options(maybe including Access, equipment, etc.); Follower loyalty levels; "Ablative" contacts(i.e., it's like a Favor, with charges, or a contact with a diminishing roll)
11. Talents--"Poker Face"(bonus to gambling, acting, persuasion), "Ladies Man/Man's woman/People pleaser"(bonuses to charm, conversation, persuasion, et al.), "Gift for Gab", "Fast Learner"(variant on cramming), Unlimited Potential(in a campaign with NCM, this represents the ability to exceed them without paying a penalty, for one or more stats), etc.
12. Powers--Reality Alteration, Advantage: Permanent Effect, Advantage: Automatic Effect(e.g., attack automatically hits, automatically does damage/full damage, etc.), Defense: Effect Avoidance, Advantage: Noncombat CV(i.e., this allows attack/defense at combat CV values while moving at noncombat speeds), etc.

[RexMundi]

Honestly, while I think Steve made the best point, I'd like to see an APG III, with nothing but Horrid Power Gaming Examples and all the Stop-sign Nightmares one can think of. Then label it, The Power Gamers Guide. Sort of a Giant version of Goodman's Rules meets Planet Man and friends.

~Rex ......why not....Works for nearly any version of DnD.

[Derek Hiemforth]

1. Alcohol and recreational drugs. Seriously--what are the effects of mild to severe intoxication and/or being "high", in game terms?

There are basic effects of Intoxication already in the book, but some expanded info on that (and "environmental" conditions in general) might make good APG fodder.

2. Mental illness.
3. Reviving the "stress level" and PRE attack effects from 4th edition Horror Hero.
4. The Diceless Hero option. Maybe along with "Point-less Hero".

These all sound promising to me.

5. Adjusting real-world objects to a superhero setting(essentially, making it easier for supers to punch through tank armor, shrug off heavy artillery etc.)

This seems better suited to a Champions-specific product to me.

6. Damage options--exponential and semi-logarithmic damage progression(with benchmarks); collateral damage; brick tricks like hand claps and shockwaves; extended stunning(e.g., for every 5 stun over the "stun number", -1 to CON roll to recover from being stunned, penalties if you're still being attacked, etc.); non-stun/body damage(e.g. punching someone in the solar plexus to reduce their endurance, hitting them in the arm or leg to reduce mobility/cv, etc.)

I like these too. Alternate versions of existing rules, or expanded ways of using them.

7. Relationship rules--obviously an optional rule, but something to at least give the option to flesh out and mechanically resolve dating, relationships/marriage, even physical intimacy.

I can only imagine the level of ridicule the Hero world would get if we did this...

8. Vehicle rules--terrain effects on movement; visibility; more detailed rules for what happens to the occupants when a vehicle crashes or has a collision; sailing ships and oared vessels; tracked vs. wheeled vs. "walking" vehicles; fuel/range; etc.

Don't want this stuff in APG3 at all. This needs to go into Hero System Vehicles.

9. Modern and futuristic mass combat; fleet (space/naval) combat variants; aerial/space combat variants; superpowered beings in mass combat

I like this one too. Or possibly something like a system for devising mass combat systems (to make it more universal). What factors to consider for terrains, units, damage, etc.

10. Perk options--Popularity; more money options(maybe including Access, equipment, etc.); Follower loyalty levels; "Ablative" contacts(i.e., it's like a Favor, with charges, or a contact with a diminishing roll)

More liking...

11. Talents--"Poker Face"(bonus to gambling, acting, persuasion), "Ladies Man/Man's woman/People pleaser"(bonuses to charm, conversation, persuasion, et al.), "Gift for Gab", "Fast Learner"(variant on cramming), Unlimited Potential(in a campaign with NCM, this represents the ability to exceed them without paying a penalty, for one or more stats), etc.

Hmm... APGs seem more for optional or expanded rules, rather than example builds. Some of these strike me as just examples of Talents built using Skill Levels and such.

12. Powers--Reality Alteration, Advantage: Permanent Effect, Advantage: Automatic Effect(e.g., attack automatically hits, automatically does damage/full damage, etc.), Defense: Effect Avoidance, Advantage: Noncombat CV(i.e., this allows attack/defense at combat CV values while moving at noncombat speeds), etc.

More coolness! (Though "Reality Alteration" sounds more like a special effect to me than a Power... I'd be curious to see what you had in mind.)

[Mister E]

Alternate d4, d8, d10, d12, d20 & d100 rules.

[edit]:

& an acknowledgement of Extraordinary Characteristic rolls.

[Kap]

7. Relationship rules--obviously an optional rule, but something to at least give the option to flesh out and mechanically resolve dating, relationships/marriage, even physical intimacy.

Maybe you mean something different from what I'm understanding here, but isn't this where roleplaying comes in?

--Kap

[megaplayboy]

Maybe you mean something different from what I'm understanding here, but isn't this where roleplaying comes in?

--Kap

It can be, but roleplaying by itself may not be sufficient to address different aspects of this subject. For example, what happens when there's a disagreement over what the "outcome" of a roleplaying interaction should be? It can't always be worked out between players or between player and GM. Sometimes there has to be some sort of concrete way of resolving interactions where the outcome may be otherwise in doubt or dispute. YMMV.

[Mister E]

It can be, but roleplaying by itself may not be sufficient to address different aspects of this subject. For example, what happens when there's a disagreement over what the "outcome" of a roleplaying interaction should be? It can't always be worked out between players or between player and GM. Sometimes there has to be some sort of concrete way of resolving interactions where the outcome may be otherwise in doubt or dispute. YMMV.

What about the social combat rules from APG2?

[Derek Hiemforth]

there has to be some sort of concrete way of resolving interactions where the outcome may be otherwise in doubt or dispute.

If only this were true in real life...