Unofficial Advanced Player's Guide 3 Survey.

[megaplayboy]

What about the social combat rules from APG2?

Those are useful for some situations, but don't seem well-adapted to relationship interactions, dating and close friendships in particular.

[Derek Hiemforth]

What about the social combat rules from APG2?

Those are useful for some situations, but don't seem well-adapted to relationship interactions, dating and close friendships in particular.

Yeah, I'd say they're more suited to adversarial social situations (such as court intrigue or debate), than (theoretically) cooperative ones...

[Teflon Billy]

I think megaplayboy's list is a great start.

I would add that I would love to see more self-contained powers, basically taking an effect that currently requires several advantages and limitations chained together to achieve the effect.

Basically, do away with the need to remember such complex builds and restait the effect you want to achieve as a single unified power build.

Also, some examples that leap to mind:

1. Poison Power
2. Disease Power

Now I know these are currently done in an adhoc manner that covers the specific detriment that hits a player (CON Penalty, etc...) but I'd like to see a Power developed for it that is able to incorporate more specific rules that are tailored to the concepts of Poisons and Diseases.

Also, I would take a close look at all of the HeroGlyph articles as I don't think all of those interesting optional powers have been carried forward.

TB

[steriaca]

Humm...what eveyone said has merrits.

What I would add to Megaplayboy's list (and to Teflon Billy's add to it):

MetaPower rules: Rules for using given powers to create 'new' powers with effects we mostly all can agree on.
Examples: Boost (Aid, Cost Endurance to Maintain, -1/2), Boon (Aid, Delayed Fade Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Fade When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1), Aid Others Only (-1)), Destroy (Drain, Delayed Return Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Return When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1)), Instant Change (Cosmetic Transformation, Area of Effect (Surface, +1/4), No Range (-1/2)), Suppress (Drain, Cost Endurance To Maintain, -1/2), Transfer (Drain, Unified Power -1/4, and Aid, standard effect: same result on dice as Drain roll, Trigger (when using Drain, no time to activate, resets automaticly, +1), Linked (to Drain, -1/2), Unified Power -1/4).

Or, at least, make Instant Change a power again.

Secondary Endurance rules: Buying a second END stat for certan campains where things like 'eveyone can tap into magic' is common (MANA), or where 'eveyone can tap intio mental energys but fee can use it' are common (Mental Endurance, MEND), or where 'eveyone can tap into C'hi' are common (CHI). This in not exactly the same as requiering eveyone to buy an Endurance Reserve, for if the reserve runs dry, it then goes directly to STUN (like normal running out of END).

Sanity rules: The SAN charateristic, and what is the starting value, and how to damage SAN for thoes who can't wait for Horror Hero 6ed.

Expanded Weapion Familiarity list: Can I buy WF: Power Tools for my undead killer of foolish teenagers, please?

Mental Martial Arts, build rules: I just got Hero System Martial Arts, and I always pondered how to use thoes rules to buy Mental Martial Arts. It must be possable.

New Advantage: Awsome Power. This advantage, for +1/4, adds +1d6 to all Presence Attacks used right after the attack (along with other adds to Presence). For an aditinal +1/4, it adds another +1d6, and it can go on forever if the GM wishes.

New Limitation: Lackluster Power. This limitation lessens Presence Attacks by -1d6 for each -1/4 bought with it. It is oveous that you can't buy both Awsome Power and Lackluster Power for the same power.

[megaplayboy]

While I like the general idea of the "Awesome Power" advantage, it seems like just buying extra PRE, offensive only, linked to Power X(-1/2 level), would be a lot cheaper, at 2.5 points per +1d6 PRE attack. If you got to add a quarter or half of the base points of the power to your PRE attack, it might be more worthwhile. Ditto for the limitation--if it reduced your PRE attack by 25% or 50%, it'd be more worthwhile.

[megaplayboy]

While I like the idea of the unofficial survey, my suggestion is to use this thread to think about what we'd like to see, and then to create a new thread where people can try to put some of those ideas into more concrete form. The alternative is waiting 2-3+ years for Steve to get around to writing APG 3.

[steriaca]

While I like the idea of the unofficial survey, my suggestion is to use this thread to think about what we'd like to see, and then to create a new thread where people can try to put some of those ideas into more concrete form. The alternative is waiting 2-3+ years for Steve to get around to writing APG 3.

True. Also, it would save Steve time. I mean, all the work would be done for him except for him putting it into his own words.

Who wants to tackle how to create mental martial arts manuvers?

[megaplayboy]

True. Also, it would save Steve time. I mean, all the work would be done for him except for him putting it into his own words.

Who wants to tackle how to create mental martial arts manuvers?

You might want to consult the 2nd APG, and 4th and 5th edition Ultimate Mentalist books. The 2nd APG did have mental martial arts maneuvers in it, in a section either just before or just after the Social Combat rules.

[gojira]

Some ideas for handling money in game worlds, and ideas for converting Active Points and Real Points into money. Convert Resource Pools into Money and go from there; there should be a one to one function like $5000 per character point in the resource pool. Let the rest falls where it will.

Plus a list of historical prices for as much stuff as we can get our little mitts on. I'll throw in modern prices too, on the basis that they'll be historical as soon as the work is published, and therefore fit right in with the other historical stuff. Plus some future tech prices. Post-Apoc, High Tech, grim and gritty, trade rules for games like Traveller, cyberwear.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Some ideas for handling money in game worlds, and ideas for converting Active Points and Real Points into money. Convert Resource Pools into Money and go from there; there should be a one to one function like $5000 per character point in the resource pool. Let the rest falls where it will.

Plus a list of historical prices for as much stuff as we can get our little mitts on. I'll throw in modern prices too, on the basis that they'll be historical as soon as the work is published, and therefore fit right in with the other historical stuff. Plus some future tech prices. Post-Apoc, High Tech, grim and gritty, trade rules for games like Traveller, cyberwear.

A comprehensive guide to prices and trade in various tech levels would be useful, but I don't think it would be a good fit for an APG 3. Maybe an Equipment Guide 2...

[megaplayboy]

What Derek said. More options for handling money in-game would be nice, though. I don't know that straight money-to-points conversions will work all that well, though.

[steriaca]

You might want to consult the 2nd APG, and 4th and 5th edition Ultimate Mentalist books. The 2nd APG did have mental martial arts maneuvers in it, in a section either just before or just after the Social Combat rules.

Just got APG2, so I have at least looked at thoes rules. Don't have eather copy of The Ultimate Mentlist. What I was thinking of is a system like one pages 92-105 of the Hero System Martial Arts book, but for mental powers.

[gojira]

I was thinking it would work for a lot of situations, like fantasy and space opera, where realistic numbers are hard to pin down. For everything else, the sample historical price list would help pin down realistic price ranges.

[Hugh Neilson]

MetaPower rules: Rules for using given powers to create 'new' powers with effects we mostly all can agree on.
Examples: Boost (Aid, Cost Endurance to Maintain, -1/2), Boon (Aid, Delayed Fade Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Fade When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1), Aid Others Only (-1)), Destroy (Drain, Delayed Return Rate (1 Centery, +4), Limited Power (All Points Return When A Certan Action Or Set Of Actions Happens, -1)), Instant Change (Cosmetic Transformation, Area of Effect (Surface, +1/4), No Range (-1/2)), Suppress (Drain, Cost Endurance To Maintain, -1/2), Transfer (Drain, Unified Power -1/4, and Aid, standard effect: same result on dice as Drain roll, Trigger (when using Drain, no time to activate, resets automaticly, +1), Linked (to Drain, -1/2), Unified Power -1/4).

These are just power builds, rather than new rules, which I think Steve has tried to avoid in APG's. They'd be good for a Powers book, though, such as a Superpowers, High Sci Fi Tech or Grimoire book.

Secondary Endurance rules: Buying a second END stat for certan campains where things like 'eveyone can tap into magic' is common (MANA), or where 'eveyone can tap intio mental energys but fee can use it' are common (Mental Endurance, MEND), or where 'eveyone can tap into C'hi' are common (CHI). This in not exactly the same as requiering eveyone to buy an Endurance Reserve, for if the reserve runs dry, it then goes directly to STUN (like normal running out of END).

This seems like a good APG topic, but could also be a good inclusion in a setting book.

Sanity rules: The SAN charateristic, and what is the starting value, and how to damage SAN for thoes who can't wait for Horror Hero 6ed.

Another good one for genre, setting or APG.

Expanded Weapion Familiarity list: Can I buy WF: Power Tools for my undead killer of foolish teenagers, please?

Perhaps the rules for improvised weapons could be expanded - ie why do I take a -3 to hit if I swing a knife at you (with no WF) but no penalty for swinging a chair or a broken bottle. WF Rules for improvised weapons, please!

Mental Martial Arts, build rules: I just got Hero System Martial Arts, and I always pondered how to use thoes rules to buy Mental Martial Arts. It must be possable.

Again, good fodder for an APG or a Mentalist campaign setting (along with that PsiEnd stat).

New Advantage: Awsome Power. This advantage, for +1/4, adds +1d6 to all Presence Attacks used right after the attack (along with other adds to Presence). For an aditinal +1/4, it adds another +1d6, and it can go on forever if the GM wishes.

OK. My 60 AP Multipower gets another slot for 1d6 Blast, Awesome Power (+11), so I add 44d6 to my PRE attacks after using it. While anyone not fleeing in abject terror stands there, slack-mouthed, I'll switch to my 12d6 Blast and Multiple Power Attack.

New Limitation: Lackluster Power. This limitation lessens Presence Attacks by -1d6 for each -1/4 bought with it. It is oveous that you can't buy both Awsome Power and Lackluster Power for the same power.

In that case, maybe I need a VPP so I can put Lackluster Power on my non-Awesome blast to reduce the real point cost, and I'll buy a high AP limit on my VPP. hmmm...60 point pool, 60 point control cost (cosmic +2, Blasts only -2) and I can swap between 1d6 Awesome (+44d6 PRE attacks) and 24d6 Lacklustre (-4d6 PRE attacks) at will.

While I like the general idea of the "Awesome Power" advantage, it seems like just buying extra PRE, offensive only, linked to Power X(-1/2 level), would be a lot cheaper, at 2.5 points per +1d6 PRE attack. If you got to add a quarter or half of the base points of the power to your PRE attack, it might be more worthwhile. Ditto for the limitation--if it reduced your PRE attack by 25% or 50%, it'd be more worthwhile.

That seems more reasonable - buy a Linked bonus to PRE attacks (Lacklustre sounds like a very tiny side effect). Or Awesome should add, say, 1d6 PRE attack for, say, every 2 DC's of the power (12d6 Blast costs 75 points, adds 6d6 PRE attack which would cost the same 15 points bought under Megaplayboy's model).

I think APG's should focus on actual rule changes or additions (a lot of which should be caution or stop sign abilities) designed to do things the system can't do, or can only do in a very difficult/arbitrary/kludgy manner.

[megaplayboy]

I think, when I suggested Reality Alteration as a new power, I had in mind that simulating the effects of altering physical reality is actually pretty kludgy--you need a Power Framework like a VPP or Multipower, and powers like Transform, Telekinesis, and Change Environment, and then have to work up a bunch of funky advantages and limitations for them. So if there were some way to approximate all that, or to have some kind of "standardized" or specialized Power Framework, with a set of consistent rules/guidelines and appropriate advantages and limitations, that might be helpful. Done properly, you could even simulate a Wish, without that mother-of-all-mechanics-dodges that's currently suggested.