Star Fleet Battles Starships

[Midas]

Not necessarily a Constitution Class cruiser, but how would HEROdom design starships that could move, maneuver, and trade shots at FTL?

[Lawnmower Boy]

Well, you're going to need some graph paper, a 32-impulse speed chart, and a pretty darn thick skin for when people start talking about balance issues. Plus, you'll have to live with some methane-breathing Oscar the Grouch clones running the galaxy.

[megaplayboy]

Do they trade shots at FTL? I had the impression the fights took place at impulse speed, with the scale being 10,000km per hex. If ships are moving at different multiples of light speed, I have no idea how one would map out such a battle("Okay, you're travelling at Warp 3, thats 27 light seconds per second, and you're travelling at Warp 6, that's 216 light seconds per second...").
Obviously, you need megascale on your flight, sensors and weapon systems. You also need a damage scale, which then influences ship body and defenses(I'd suggest minimum damage of 6 or 7d6 KA(enough to kill a human instantly). Energy allocation seems to be a big issue, so you need an END reserve and for the movement, weapons and shields to all cost endurance to run(and likely to cost enough that you can't max everything out simultaneously). Your shields and weapon systems will have limited arcs of coverage, and part of the gameplay will be allocating energy accordingly. I don't see a lot of effective evasive maneuvering in that setting--usually a "phaser lock" will mean an automatic hit. Ships usually maneuver in order to put maximum firepower on a target, or to keep rotating shield facings in order to prevent internal damage.

That's all I can think of, offhand.

[Peregrine]

In SFB, the ships are, indeed, traveling at low (for Trek) FTL speeds in combat; the max combat speed is a tad over Warp 3 (31c, to be precise, although the fastest seeking weapons travel at 32c). Energy considerations typically force speeds to be a bit lower, as does turn radii for many of the ships.

I wouldn't necessarily try to simulate the mechanics of SFB in Hero, though, despite their similarities in using segmented actions. If you are trying to do Prime Directive Hero, use Hero for PC-level actions and SFB (or the simpler Federation Commander) for space combat.

[Christopher]

Not necessarily a Constitution Class cruiser, but how would HEROdom design starships that could move, maneuver, and trade shots at FTL?

Do they trade shots at FTL? I had the impression the fights took place at impulse speed, with the scale being 10,000km per hex. If ships are moving at different multiples of light speed, I have no idea how one would map out such a battle("Okay, you're travelling at Warp 3, thats 27 light seconds per second, and you're travelling at Warp 6, that's 216 light seconds per second...").

At least Photon Torpedoes from TNG onward can be fired at warpspeed. According to the Enterpise manual, they even have a small warp drive and can use their mater/antimater warhead as fuel. Also, there are multiple warp-capable probe types.
I think the even used a Phase Canon from ENT once during a warp flight, but am not certain (it would be possible if the warp fields "touch" one another and you fire through the touchign point).

How I would to it:
Not use FTL Travel, the power. It asumes no ability to interact.
As noted above, Megascale is propably the beast way. Perhaps you could even make your own "Warpscale"/"Stellar Scale" advantage with your own progression (otherwise weapons and drives could be unessesarily expensive/AP-intensive).
Another idea is to make torpedoes as automatons with warp flight and Self Killing attack and torpedo launchers as "summon" powers. That way you could even simulate them loosing yield (using up endurance) when they have to chase a target at warp. The APG II has rules for Foci that act on their own SPD, with a Missile being the example.
When for flying at different Warp factors, you also might have to take relative velcoity into account.

To only real typ I can give you for balancing: Asume every +/-1 exquals +/-10 % chance of success. That is the easiest way to translate penalties/bonuses.

Another thing is the "Shields at 50%":
You can either do this with Ablative, or by saying that the shield generator is an Endurance Reserve and that the Shields have "Damage based Endurance cost" from APG II.

[cptpatriot]

In SFB, the ships are, indeed, traveling at low (for Trek) FTL speeds in combat; the max combat speed is a tad over Warp 3 (31c, to be precise, although the fastest seeking weapons travel at 32c). Energy considerations typically force speeds to be a bit lower, as does turn radii for many of the ships.

I wouldn't necessarily try to simulate the mechanics of SFB in Hero, though, despite their similarities in using segmented actions. If you are trying to do Prime Directive Hero, use Hero for PC-level actions and SFB (or the simpler Federation Commander) for space combat.

I agree with Peregrine that you would want to use SFB where possible, but in order to allow coordination with shipboard actions, you need a 12 impulse chart, which I have provided below.

SPEED in hexes	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
1						1
2						1						1
3				1				1				1
4			1			1			1			1
5			1		1			1		1		1
6		1		1		1		1		1		1
7		1		1		1	1		1		1	1
8		1	1		1	1		1	1		1	1
9		1	1	1		1	1	1		1	1	1
10		1	1	1	1	1		1	1	1	1	1
11		1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1
12	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1
13	1	1	1	1	1	2	1	1	1	1	1	1
14	1	1	1	1	1	2	1	1	1	1	1	2
15	1	1	1	2	1	1	1	2	1	1	1	2
16	1	1	2	1	1	2	1	1	2	1	1	2
17	1	1	2	1	2	1	1	2	1	2	1	2
18	1	2	1	2	1	2	1	2	1	2	1	2
19	1	2	1	2	1	2	2	1	2	1	2	2
20	1	2	2	1	2	2	1	2	2	1	2	2
21	1	2	2	2	1	2	2	2	1	2	2	2
22	1	2	2	2	2	2	1	2	2	2	2	2
23	1	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2
24	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	2
25	2	2	2	2	2	3	2	2	2	2	2	2
26	2	2	2	2	2	3	2	2	2	2	2	3
27	2	2	2	3	2	2	2	3	2	2	2	3
28	2	2	3	2	2	3	2	2	3	2	2	3
29	2	2	3	2	3	2	2	3	2	3	2	3
30	2	3	2	3	2	3	2	3	2	3	2	3
31	2	3	3	2	3	3	2	3	3	2	3	3
32	2	3	3	2	3	3	2	3	3	2	3	3

The only thing that I don't have knowledge of SFB to say if they have rules for under crewed vessels, so if Klingons board the ship and start killing crew, you'd have to figure it out. I'm trying to remember how the rules work for multiple people assisting you with a skill roll, but my memory fails me.

[Peregrine]

The only thing that I don't have knowledge of SFB to say if they have rules for under crewed vessels, so if Klingons board the ship and start killing crew, you'd have to figure it out. I'm trying to remember how the rules work for multiple people assisting you with a skill roll, but my memory fails me.

Yes, there are rules for undercrewed ships, because there are rules for A. boarding actions and B. crew losses due to ship damage.

SFB is the Advanced Squad Leader of space combat games.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Yes, there are rules for undercrewed ships, because there are rules for A. boarding actions and B. crew losses due to ship damage.

SFB is the Advanced Squad Leader of space combat games.

As well as rules for the effects of Superior Quality Officers in various positions, allowing a pretty easy way to integrate the effects of various PC's actions in relation to the overall ship combat.

[Midas]

Well, you're going to need some graph paper, a 32-impulse speed chart, and a pretty darn thick skin for when people start talking about balance issues. Plus, you'll have to live with some methane-breathing Oscar the Grouch clones running the galaxy.

Hydrans? Are Hydrans that powerful in your gaming group?

In any case, the setting is first season TOS, so Romulans are cryptic xenophobes to the Galactic Northeast, the Kzinti are to Galactic South, the Orions are (dubiously) members of the Federation, the Gorn and the Tholians have not been encountered yet. As for the ADB races, no one knows of the existence of the Hydrans, Lyrans, ISC, Andromedans*, etc.

*That includes either of the Andromedans from the original series.

[AmadanNaBriona]

s

Hydrans? Are Hydrans that powerful in your gaming group?

In any case, the setting is first season TOS, so Romulans are cryptic xenophobes to the Galactic Northeast, the Kzinti are to Galactic South, the Orions are (dubiously) members of the Federation, the Gorn and the Tholians have not been encountered yet. As for the ADB races, no one knows of the existence of the Hydrans, Lyrans, ISC, Andromedans*, etc.

*That includes either of the Andromedans from the original series.

Dude, I OWNED with the Hydrans, almost every time I played 'em.
Little green tripartite buggers FTW

[Midas]

OK gang. Lots of food for thought here. I'll think on the responses and post proper replies in the next day or two.

A n'B et al: What era? I can't see Hydrans being all that dangerous with fighters armed with P IIIs and no warp boosters.

[AmadanNaBriona]

OK gang. Lots of food for thought here. I'll think on the responses and post proper replies in the next day or two.

A n'B et al: What era? I can't see Hydrans being all that dangerous with fighters armed with P IIIs and no warp boosters.

Erk, been to long to answer, as I don't exactly grok the question. Era? Uh... well. I mostly played around the early 80's.
Hydrans just worked well for me. Fighters are what let you get close enough for a proper knife-fight with your Hellbores & Fusion guns

Edit: tho I also played Gorn quite a bit, to be fair.

[Sundog]

I can usually take a Hydran apart at range with a Kzinti ship of the same points cost...but I'm really weak against Feds. OTOH, my Tholians eats feds for breakfast.

[Christopher]

I'm trying to remember how the rules work for multiple people assisting you with a skill roll, but my memory fails me.

There is none directly. We have rules for complimentary rolls and a computer/Base/Vehicle that has a skill can use it to complement your roll (if you have it). One other person might help you there too.

I think in this situation a "Requires Multiple Users" Limitation is more fitting to simulate that you need crew.

[Sougen]

As to 'fighting at warp' is concerned, it depends on what series and at what point in the series you are talking about. Because of that, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the rules you impose jive with the 'established' rules of the universe since they are always in flux.

Reasonably said, though, unless the two warp fields are touching, phasers should not work if fired forward. The moment the energy left the warp bubble it would no longer be traveling as fast as the ship that fired it. Likewise, unless the torpedo can travel at warp speeds, they wouldn't work either. That of course brings up issues of why such torpedoes aren't used in non-warp fights and how a ship's warp field interacts with the shields of another - seems like a bit of physics that only a few people could really predict. Now, if firing behind yourself, you can probably justify but even that has its limits given trajectory.

Speaking of "warp speed" weapons, though. Assuming torpedoes can work at warp speed and, as we know, even TOS Enterprise can level a planet, why wouldn't warring races just level their opponents with several high war torpedoes aimed at planets? Sure, it isn't honorable, but it is sure elegant in its simplicity. The weapons would be hard to target and deal with and thus could easily distract a whole ship from performing its normal duties to just stop one single weapon. Add on Clocking tech or phasing tech, and the weapon is nearly undetectable and untouchable.

Anyway, that's all I really have to offer.