Stunning attack

[Sougen]

I'm trying to figure out how to build an attack whose sole purpose is to stun an opponent for a moment. Something similar to flash bangs where the victim is caught up in tending to the pain in their ears to actually be able to effectively do anything else. The special effect behind this is similar to the way The Hulk could slap his hands and cause massive sonic waves to emanate and damage physical structures. For my version I wish to be weaker in the sense that it doesn't damage the environment but does cause a terrible sound wave that disorients those near it.

I originally thought about using flash, but all it does is prevent them from using the effected sense. I thought about doing it as an EB with various mods, but found that it was becoming very expensive, very quick. Likewise, I'm not concerned about doing actual damage with the attack as much as disorienting people.

Thank you in advance for you help.

[Hugh Neilson]

I don't know about "incredibly expensive", but a reliable attack that only Stuns the opponent seems like a very high AP attack. Reliably eliminating a target's next phase is a pretty powerful effect.

Typically, I think the approach would be a high damage, STUN only attack (probably AVLD or NND) limited that the STUN applies only to determine if the target is Stunned. Yours would be AoE or Explosive with no range, perhaps with Personal Immunity or perhaps relying on your own CON being high enough to avoid the effect (or you have the NND defense). 6d6 will roll an average of 21, so a 6d6 NND attack is enough to reliably Stun most human targets (soldiers, agents, etc. - the Hulk's typical targets for this attack). To reliably stun most Supers, you probably want 8 or more dice (28 average roll) and an NND effect that will get past the typical Super (or more dice to offset defenses they might have).

I could see a GM being pretty opposed to an ability that reliably Stuns most credible opponents. As long as a teammate can act once the target is stunned, a multiple attack against 1/2 DCV should take that target out of the fight pretty reliably, more so if the target relies on non-persistent defenses. I suspect the PC group would be pretty unhappy having this type of ability used against them. "This phase, Stunner targets Maxi-Man, who is Stunned. Brick-Boy moves up and starts a Haymaker. End of next segment, MaxiMan gets hit for 16d6 - remember that your force field is down since you were Stunned!"

[Sougen]

Thank you for your reply, Hugh.

What I realized after I start poking around the book for an answer to my question is that I am trying to re-invent the wheel. There is an attack that's sole job is to neutralize characters without dealing damage to them: Entangle. So, the following is my attempt to emulate the desired special effect above with the Entangle mechanics. I did take the liberty of alter one advantage for it: instead of "works against EGO, not STR", I went with "CON, not STR" since the idea of recovering after having one's ears hit like this seems more an issue of CON than any other stat. Also, it is in essence a mental paralysis build but kept in the physical realm, kind of. It has a time limit on it, as well as many others to help reflect the special effect and also keep it from being too over powered.

Crack!: Entangle 2d6, 2 PD/2 ED (Stops A Given Sense Normal Hearing), Area Of Effect (1m Cone; +1/4), Cannot Be Escaped With Teleportation (+1/4), Works Against CON, not STR (+1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2) (56 Active Points); Time Limit (1 Turn; -2 1/2), Does Not Prevent The Use Of Accessible Foci (-1), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Unified Power (-1/4)

That is 56 active points, and with all the limitations (including being inside a MP), 1 Real point.

Ideas? Advice?

[Hugh Neilson]

At the +1/2 level, the Entangle can still be attacked and damaged by other characters. The +1 level would restrict the target to CON, and require a "reasonably common and obvious way" to remove the Entangle. Note that Mental Paralysis has a special +3/4 level which allows other characters to assist if they have mental powers.

If this does not prevent use of accessible foci, then the target is capable of, say, firing his gun or throwing his Mystic Darts while the entangle is in effect. That doesn't sound like your objective. Generally, that focus could only be used to break the entangle - as few Accessible foci would add to your CON, I'm not sure this is actually limiting. I note Mental Paralysis is not suggested to have this limitation.

You could consider a limitation that the target's DCV is halved (like being Stunned) rather than reduced to 0 (the effect of being entangled).

Regardless, just reducing the target to zero (or half) DCV until their next phase is an immensely powerful ability.

Looking at Time Limit, everyone should put this on their Entangles - how often does a fight last a whole minute anyway, so a free -2 limitation seems pretty great. I would refer to the discussion of Time Limit's general intentions on Vol 1, p 346. In regards to attack powers, it is generally intended to simulate an attack power which ca only be used for a limited period of time (eg. you can only attack with the entangle for one turn, after which it must be reactivated - typically requiring some effort by the character).

Of course, being in a MP, the ultimate cost will be pretty small in any case. A 1 M cone will prevent it affecting many characters at a time, and require you be pretty much on top of the target anyway, which will mitigate its potential for abuse. That said, how many characters will not be affected until at least their next phase (a 20 CON character can just break free on an average roll, leaving him a half phase action; 30 or more CON will average enough to double its BOD and have a full phase; 40 CON will allow a "casual CON' roll that will break the entangle on average, so it takes a 40 CON to avoid the disadvantage of reduced DCV). I also note that a 10 CON target - say a cop - will have a 25% chance to slip one BOD past the Entangle with each attack, so it should take 8 attacks on average to break out. That seems like a long time - almost a minute - for the Stunning effect to last, although it won't make this any more unbalancing as credible threats will undoubtedly have more CON than that.

I'd discuss the desired effect with the GM before spending a lot of time crafting the build - I suspect a lot of GM's will be leery of a power that reliably reduces most targets to zero (or half) DCV until his next phase (and I'd expect a lot of Big Bads to have their CON bumped to allow casual breakout to be nearly automatic).

[Sougen]

Thank you again for the reply, Hugh. I noticed a couple things after reading your post that I have now corrected:

First is the AoE. I meant it to be at 6m, not 1. I just never changed that. I figured a half move's equivalent in distance would be fair.

Second is the use of Foci. I realized that this was an odd thing to start with. As it really wouldn't give me the desired effect if PC could still access their equipment unhindered.

Time Limit: I do realize that this is a little over done given the level of disad. The main thrust of this was to keep the effects from last past a max 12 sec barrier. The idea that Joe Shmoe would still be affected (it is entirely possible given a speed 2-3 and only 10 CON) after 12 seconds was undesirable. Even if it doesn't have much reason to be there beyond that, I still thought it would be good for that. Maybe bringing it down to a -1/2 lim at best would be best.

Bringing them down to half DCV would also seem like a good idea. The desired effect isn't to have them completely paralyzed, just too preoccupied to be effective.

Lastly, this is a personal creation character. It isn't for a game. Rather, it was inspired by Opale's thread about needing a name for one of her characters. I suggested Black Opal, but it wasn't used but was given the challenge of producing a "Black Opal" character on my own. That character can be found here. As such, I'm not too very concerned about how the character works out in any particular campaign, but that it is book legal.

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Another idea that came to me was to build a normal flash but with negative OCV skill levels with UoO and linked to a flash. This doesn't immobilize them by any means, but it does lower the effective ability to target / attack. And the last idea I had was to build a change environment attack that has a minus to attack and movement to reflect the desired effect. Do these seem like better ideas?

[Christopher]

Looking at Time Limit, everyone should put this on their Entangles - how often does a fight last a whole minute anyway, so a free -2 limitation seems pretty great. I would refer to the discussion of Time Limit's general intentions on Vol 1, p 346. In regards to attack powers, it is generally intended to simulate an attack power which ca only be used for a limited period of time (eg. you can only attack with the entangle for one turn, after which it must be reactivated - typically requiring some effort by the character).

But this attack power is "Instant with lasting effect", so it wouldn't be a wrong idea to put Time Limit on it.

Another idea that came to me was to build a normal flash but with negative OCV skill levels with UoO and linked to a flash. This doesn't immobilize them by any means, but it does lower the effective ability to target / attack. And the last idea I had was to build a change environment attack that has a minus to attack and movement to reflect the desired effect. Do these seem like better ideas?

CE would need to block any movement form (Running, Flying, Teleport) to be effective. Togehter with OCV penalty that would be very expensive.

One unsualy solution:
You want to Stun the target, so you need a lot of dice (plus area of effect). How about buying only a part of that power in your Attack Power Multipower, and buying the rest of it "outside" the MP? Afaik it is legal to have a compound power with parts being inside a Framework and parts being outside - as long as the "main" part is inside the Multipower, so you have to set it to use any of your points.

[Hugh Neilson]

But this attack power is "Instant with lasting effect", so it wouldn't be a wrong idea to put Time Limit on it.

Rules as written? No. Mechanically balanced? Should having your target freed after a minute really cut the cost to 1/3? I don't think that's nearly as limited as, say "works on an 8-" or "1 charge per day", or extra END or extra time at the -2 level.

And I also note it is inconsistent with the intended use of the limitation as spelled out in the text, despite being book legal.

[Zephrosyne]

Well, I don't know if he has it or not but the original poster could use the Change Environment Adder, Stunning, in the Advanced Player's Guide (pg. 83). You could simply change the duration to Instant if appropriate to the effect you are trying to achieve. Unless I am misunderstanding what the original poster wants, this seems like it would work.

[Ice9]

If using an Entangle, I would just have the time limit as the "reasonable common and obvious" way to break out of it, not as a separate limitation.
But yeah, if using the APG, you can do it with Change Environment.

[Hyper-Man]

Here's a 5er build that could be adapted:

Here's a "super-taser" build I've posted before:


20 Taser Round Loaded Shotgun: Suppress STUN 8d6 (standard effect: 24 points), [DEX & STUN] simultaneously (+1/2), 8 Continuing Charges lasting 1 Turn each (+0) (60 Active Points); OAF (Shotgun; -1), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Physical Manifestation (Shell sticking to victim; -1/4), Limited Range (Shell must hit target with enough velocity to stick to clothes or skin [There is no damage from impact]; -1/4)
[Notes: from 5er page 36, Negative Dexterity - At DEX 1 or less, a character is CV 0. A character with negative DEX loses control over his reactions, and must succeed with DEX Rolls to perform any Actions requiring physical movement (even just aiming at a target, or making Gestures). If he fails the DEX Roll, he cannot perform the Action that Phase. Characters with a DEX of -30 (or minus their initial DEX value, whichever is better for the character) or less may take no physical actions.] - END=[8 cc]

2-3 hits by this round will bring down most supers (unless they have some Power Defense).

I based it on the shotgun and special shells on this site: http://www.taser.com/products/law-en...ent/taser-xrep