Kickstarter Politics

[Epiphanis]

The shift to a crowd-funded publication model has some interesting implications I don't think have been fully grasped yet. It is a zero-sum game. Support given to any particular project is support taken away from another. This is true on both the consumer and production side. Obviously, consumers have finite cash to spend to support projects; I think everyone is aware of this. Less obvious is prioritizing the limited resources of the producers.

As I've stated elsewhere, I would prefer to see Steve Long write and publish the long-discussed Profit and Purity supplement for Champions than the currently-floated Mythic Hero Kickstarter project. Its not that I hate the idea of Mythic Hero, in fact I'd almost certainly buy it if it were presented as a fait accompli. But I'd rather have a good, Steve Long-written Profit & Purity supplement. For what I am sure are valid reasons of his own, Steve has placed a higher priority on Mythic Hero. It is very likely that a majority of the Hero System fan base agrees with Steve on that prioritization. Under the traditional publishing model, my input into that decision was negligible. Long after the priorities were decided I either paid the flat-sum price for the finished product, or I didn't, which might contribute slightly to evaluating similar prioritization issues in the future but does bupkuss in deciding the issue I originally cared about.

Crowdfunding throws a different spin into the process. I now not only have an interest in the project I most want to see succeeding, I have an interest in every other prior project failing! obviously, I can add the money I don't spend on MH to the support I could potentially throw to P&P, assuming the latter project returns to the table. And if the MH project succeeds, I am guaranteed that Steve WON'T work on P&P for about four months, where he otherwise might. In that time a great many things could happen that would make P&P even less likely to happen than it currently is. For instance, Steve, who has now returned to freelancer status, could be hired by another outfit to work on other properties full time--while it has always been a possibility, we must be aware that there is a heightened chance that any given Hero project may be his last.

Consequently, even though I have nothing against the Mythic Hero project in the abstract, and even though I would probably buy a copy once it is successfully completed, I'm not inclined to support it in advance, and actually have cause to hope it flops. Sorry, but true. Don't interpret my lack of support for one specific project as a no-confidence vote for future ones!

Although I illustrated this point with my personal preference for P&P over MH, there are plenty of other issues in which crowd funding politics enters the mix. I almost never buy hard copies of books, especially game books, where electonic versions are available. With crowd funding, this pits the interests of people like me, who get more out of cheaper, faster, and potentially smaller and more numerous, modular publications against those of hard copy collectors, who would dictate more expensive productions with higher page counts and longer production times. In other words, crowd funding is going to drastically change the publishing-editing process, and everybody should be aware of that.

[megaplayboy]

Yeah, I think you don't really understand too well. If Mythic Hero fails as a KS project, it makes it LESS likely you'll see something like Profit & Purity as a KS project(or in any form), because it becomes less likely that any Hero KS project above a certain threshold will succeed. It's not like Steve's going to say, "oh hey, looks like I couldn't get funding for Mythic Hero, Stormlords, Cyber Hero or Legendary Hero, so I guess I'll move on to asking for funds for...oh, Profit and Purity." At that point, 6 months have gone by, nothing's gotten funded, and KS is an apparent failure, and not viable for funding new Hero product. You of course still have the option not to contribute, but I don't see where withholding funds in the hope the project fails will get you the result you want. If anything, it'll make it impossible to get the result you want.

If you want to make it more likely that P&P will get published at some point, kick in a small sum(10 bucks is an option level) for every project and PM Steve to ask him about putting it back on the agenda late this year or early next year.

[Epiphanis]

It is possible you are correct, but If so I think it is only because of the possibility that the concerned parties are stuck thinking in a traditional publishing model that doesn't really apply. Yes, maybe the failure of any given project could lead to a conclusion that Kickstarter funding is a failed experiment, but that would be a poor conclusion to make.

[mudpyr8]

I think the gist of your post Epiphanis is more about the issue of change, rather than the specifics of crowdsourcing or otherwise. In your situation, with your set of preferences, I can see how this would not be a welcomed change.

I'll make a general observation about resources however. Steve Long is only capable of writing X words per month. Now I know his X words are volumes greater than most, but it is still, contrary to legend, finite. So, Steve isn't any more likely to work on his next project now than he would otherwise.

However, from my perspective the opposite is true. Rather than waiting around for one book or another to be printed, and maybe buy it or not (a few recently I haven't bought). With this model, and additional incentives, I have contributed more than I would have for those projects, significantly more, and I am motivated to help ensure the project gets completed. It allows me to feel more part of the process than ever. If a project comes along that I'm not particularly interested in, such as Profit & Purity, I would still contribute 10-20 bucks to help make sure it gets done for those that are really interested in it.

I think the model makes a lot more sense for a small market. I think it is far more ideal when you have a limited set of resources to ensure that those resources are applied to the most popular projects.

As for hard copy vs. ecopy. I think that is a debate/discussion/argument that will fade in time. While we transition to ebooks, there is of course turbulence, but even with my current preference for PDFs I am growing weary of their lack of interactivity and am already looking forward to the next evolution to something more dynamic than print or PDF.

I for one welcome our new Kickstart overlords. Especially if it allows Hero to continue publishing the quality books they have been.

[megaplayboy]

It is possible you are correct, but If so I think it is only because of the possibility that the concerned parties are stuck thinking in a traditional publishing model that doesn't really apply. Yes, maybe the failure of any given project could lead to a conclusion that Kickstarter funding is a failed experiment, but that would be a poor conclusion to make.

Since a significant part of the funding goal comprises the author's compensation a failure to fund one means the author doesn't get paid to write that month. Obviously two or three failed projects in a row means the author will have to find another source of compensation.

[Steve Long]

You are correct that using Kickstarter as a method for funding the production of books has implications. You're incorrect that they haven't been considered. Hero Games, and I personally, are well aware of the ones you mention, and others besides, and have considered them quite carefully.

Megaplayboy and mudpyr8 have both hit on the salient points here, so I'll try not to get too repetitive in my own response. The plain facts of the situation are these: there are certain books I would very much like to write. As I consider what projects I want to Kickstarter, I have to consider many factors, including both my interest in writing a book and consumer interest in buying that book. One of the great things about Kickstarter is that it tells me in advance whether the customer interest is sufficient to make it worth my time and effort to write a given book. Rather than spending $X of my time and then losing massive amounts of money, I know in 30-60 days whether a project can support itself (so I only lose a small amount of "advance" money in terms of time devoted to launching and managing the Kickstarter).

But there's still a downside there, and that's this: enough failed projects, and I'm going to stop wasting my time creating new ones to pitch. Creating a Kickstarter and launching it isn't extremely expensive or difficult, but it's not free or effortless either. If I pitch one and fail, well, maybe I'll try again, depending on how I feel about it. If I fail a second time, or a third, I have to seriously question whether it's worthwhile to keep trying. In fact, I can tell you right now, point blank, that the odds are almost 100% that I'll conclude that the answer to that question is "no."

Unlike Hero Games, which has at least a trickle of income from the Online Store and whatnot, I am entirely dependent on the income from whatever I'm currently writing. If I pitch a Kickstarter and it fails, that's 1-2 months with no income. (Of course I'll be working on something "on spec" during that time, but that's not an ideal use of my time compared to writing something that's guaranteed to pay off.) I can't afford to just keep trying, and trying, and trying. Sooner or later I have to cut my losses and find something else to do. You may think that using Kickstarter failures as a bellwether is a poor way to judge success, and you're certainly free to hold that opinion, but I'm here to tell you as the guy whose livelihood is actually on the line here that from where I sit it's actually a pretty damn sensible way to go about this.

The best way to guarantee that I'm still around, writing HERO System books, until I get to whichever one you're most interested in, is to support my current Kickstarter, and each one that follows after it, until I hopefully get to the one you'd most like to see. That tells me there's a market for my books and keeps some money coming in so I can go on doing this work that I love so much. But if the consumer interest in my work isn't there -- if Kickstarters fail, in other words -- the the buying public is telling me, in the starkest possible way, that it's not sufficiently interested in my HERO System work for me to be able to support myself by creating it. (Or, it's telling me that there aren't enough people with sufficient interest. Six o' one, half dozen of t'other. ) I'm a capitalist and I wouldn't have it any other way, as painful as it might be for me personally.

As HERO System Line Developer I tried to make this point subtly for years. Now with the Kickstarter model coming to the fore it's being made, not just by me but by the general circumstances, in a relatively blunt and straightforward way. This is a small game in a niche industry. If you love the HERO System, and you want to see more books for it, you're part of a very small and select (and intelligent, tasteful, creative, and awesome!) group. Keeping a regular streams of new books coming out now falls on you, as a member of that group, as much as it falls on creators like me.

If you don't like this system, or you're not willing to offer support for books you're not highly enthusiastic about, then don't support the Kickstarters you don't like. That's your privilege in a free society and I'd never claim otherwise. But be aware that like any other action in a free society, it has implications too. In this case the main implication is, "no support now may mean no more HERO System books in the future." You should factor that potential consequence as one thing to consider in deciding whether you like a book enough to pledge your support via Kickstarter.




Note: the above are entirely my own opinions and do not necessarily represent the official opinions of Hero Games. For those, Jason'll have to chime in.

[Steve Long]

Don't interpret my lack of support for one specific project as a no-confidence vote for future ones!

I appreciate that you are particularly enthusiastic for certain books. (And I mean that sincerely -- hard to tell sometimes with this whole "lack of inflection" thing. ) Unfortunately I simply can't work this way --- I can't keep floating trial balloons. I am absolutely, positively, unequivocally going to consider lack of consumer support for one Kickstarter as some evidence of a "no confidence" vote in future projects in general (how much evidence is debatable; that's a decision I have to make based on the nature of the failure). More than one such failure is definitely going to be taken as something approaching a general "no confidence" vote -- or if you want to put it in less personal terms, as a strongly indication that there simply aren't enough HERO System consumers to make the sorts of books I want to write commercially viable. I cannot keep trying and failing until I run out of savings to live on and have to sell my house, my car, etc., to put food on the table.

Consequently, even though I have nothing against the Mythic Hero project in the abstract, and even though I would probably buy a copy once it is successfully completed, I'm not inclined to support it in advance, and actually have cause to hope it flops.

Much of what we've been discussing here is opinion on some level, and so reasonable people can differ. But you are dead wrong on this fact, and I tell you that as the guy whom you seem to want to write P&P. If MH fails as a Kickstarter, that's one nail in the coffin. I'll probably try at least one more Kickstarter, but it won't be P&P. If that one also fails, that could very well be the last nail in the coffin. The last thing you want to do, even if you aren't willing to offer your support personally, is to hope that any of my Kickstarters fail.

[Steve Long]

For instance, Steve, who has now returned to freelancer status, could be hired by another outfit to work on other properties full time--while it has always been a possibility, we must be aware that there is a heightened chance that any given Hero project may be his last.

I won't deny that that's possible, but the unvarnished truth is that it's extremely unlikely. If that were going to happen it would probably have happened already. The fact (a sad one from my perspective) is that the great RPG lines are largely passing away and almost certainly won't be returning. The sort of RPG writing I'm best at simply isn't in demand anymore.

[Steve Long]

And before I sign off for the night, let me close with one final note of honesty and openness, just to lay all my cards on the table for Epiphanis, who was kind enough to start this discussion (and it is the sort of discussion we need to be having, as things evolve in the Hero publishing world). I don't want anyone to accuse me of being misleading somewhere down the road.

If Mythic Hero succeeds, my next KS will definitely be Legendary Hero (the two books sorta go together, after all). What would come after that I can't say for certain, but it wouldn't be P&P. That book isn't high on the list of supplements that I'm interested in writing. It's on the list, but it's so far down that it would likely be years before I get to it. Honestly, I might never get to it; I have a lot of ideas that tend to appeal to me more (at least this week... maybe not next week ).

If Mythic Hero fails, I'll probably try at least one more. I can't say for certain what it would be; maybe STORMlords. (But ask me five minutes from now and maybe I'll say different. ) If that fails too, then there's a strong chance I won't try again, and in that case you'll never see P&P... or at least not from me. Obviously if Hero Games perceived enough consumer interest they could hire someone (possibly me, possibly not) to write it.

[Derek Hiemforth]

One thing I have noticed that I'm curious about (since I don't really have the perspective to know)...

With Book of the Empress, and thus far on Mythic Hero, roughly a third of the backers chose to only buy the PDF. With them as a possible base of PDF customers (people for whom PDF may actually be their preferred option), and assuming that some of the folks who bought hard copies would have bought PDF-only publication if that was the only option, do you think there's any chance that some books that might struggle to reach the goals they'd need to hit as printed books, could be more feasible as PDF-only productions?

In other words, do you think the lower goals needed with lower production costs could more than offset the lower funds that would be generated for a project that wasn't for printed books?

(Before the anti-PDF folks even chime in, let me say yes, I know some people will never buy books in PDF-only form. I get it. I'm just wondering whether a tipping point may have been reached where enough people will buy in PDF form, to make some products actually more viable that way, even accounting for the fact that some people won't buy PDFs.)

[bluesguy]

One of the reasons I am supporting Mythic Hero is because the supplement sounds interesting. The fact of the matter is in my current campaign (Valdorian Age) I don't need the supplement. But one day I might work up my own campaign world and Mythic Hero might be just what I need. Whether I use the material in my campaign or not the ideas and concepts in the book sound interesting enough that I will want it on my 'electronic' bookshelf.

BTW: I am one of those folks who is moving towards only buying PDFs. No more dead trees . The real reason is that I have limited bookshelf space, but almost unlimited hard drive space, so the PDFs are just a more effective use of my $s at this point in time. In fact I am willing to spend more $s on PDF books because of the space issue (and usually the costs are lower).

And again Steve thank you for taking a big chance on all of us being willing to keep working on this product line. You are taking a big risk doing this and I for one appreciate it.

[bluesguy]

long-discussed Profit and Purity supplement for Champions

What is Profit & Purity supplement suppose to be?

[Derek Hiemforth]

What is Profit & Purity supplement suppose to be?

It was on the original 2012 release schedule, before everything changed:

Profit And Purity: This organizations book for Champions details two groups: the villainous technocratic profiteers of ARGENT, who arm the underworld with the latest gadgetry and try to subvert corporations and governments worldwide; and the Institute for Human Advancement, an anti-superhuman lobbying organization whose secret activities are far more violent and criminal than most members could ever imagine.
Author: Steven S. Long
Tentative Release Date: Late 2012

[Epiphanis]

What is Profit & Purity supplement suppose to be?

A Champions sourcebook dedicated to the ARGENT and the Institute for Human Advancement villain groups. It's been in the wind as queued for potential development since at least 2009.

[Epiphanis]

Thanks for the response, Steve. Certainly your comments support megaplayboy's. I cannot help but think, however, that the approach you've adopted is still better suited to traditional publishing than crowd funding. Is it necessarily true that the financial viability of your continued involvement is contingent on the success of a very small number of expensive mega-tome funding projects like Mythic Hero? Does the Kickstarter model truly mandate that you generate only one idea at a time, put it up on Kickstarter with no prior research, then wait two months to see if it is achievable before floating another? Certainly you have motivation I don't and have done research I haven't, but some of your statements seem counterintuitive to me.

I'd also like to make clear that I'm not representing my personal preferences as being anything but that. For all I know I'm the only person in the universe who wants to see P&P and every other Hero system consumer is slavering for MH.