Not just for Steve Long anymore.....

[AnotherSkip]

When do you need to use a skill/atribute check?

more appropriately how do you force someone to make a skill check?

Would Change environment be the best way for a play to force others to make skill checks (admittedly at a penalty in most cases)?

part of the concern is concerning setting off berzerkrolls and whether it would be better to mentally illusion things, or you could use a Change environment or something else entirely (Images w/ enough senses?) or if all three of these are appropo.

Here is what is going on.

Im building a set of spells that influence a particular race in a fantasy campaign(Yazarians from Star Frontiers)
they can go berzerk in certain situations what base power do you see as being the best to set off their berzerk or help them recover in certain situations?
Change environment
Images
Mental Illusions
Something else?


Does Change Environment automatically force a check when you enter an area influenced by the change?
Is there any way power construction wise you can force a check of an ability?


I gott a love building spells for my own world, they would be absolutely _useless_ to everyone else just about. esp since some of the abilities are: Side effects are : -6 to Berzerk skill rolls, another is 4" Change environemnt -4 to berzerk skill rolls, others are MSR Berserk Skill roll(-1/2), etc...

[dugfromthearth]

"more appropriately how do you force someone to make a skill check?"

A berserk roll is not a skill check. That is where you are confused.

A berserk roll is triggered by a situation. Therefore to trigger it you put the character in a situation, or make them think they are in the situation.

So you should use images or mental illusions.

[austenandrews]

Right, it depends on the situation that triggers the berserk. If the target goes berserk when innocents are harmed, some form of illusion would work. If the target goes berserk in total darkness, use Darkness. If they go berserk when their blood is drawn, use a KA. &c.

-AA

[Blue Jogger]

Change Environment is designed to affect an area and give it a particular effect. It can be used for any number of effects: hallowed ground, cursed, more fertile, and with long-lasting can last awhile under it fades. The options are only limited to what the GM allows
and what makes sense in a game world. Entering an area with a penality would probably cause a skill check to occur. Depending on the trigger of the Berserk, it might activate entering an area.

Images are designed as messing what you sense (see, touch, feel, etc) It affects everyone who view the area. Images can also be used to enhance senses by being louded, brighter, etc. But they can't directly affect a person, only delude someone that they sense something that is not there. If a Berserk was based on perceiving something (the smell of blood, seeing the full moon, etc) than it would trigger if he believed what he saw was actually happening.

Mental Illusions are designed to affect one person (normally). That person directly believes the illusion and acts accordingly. Mental Illusions can cause damage so they can cause other effects as well.

[Farkling]

I do not have a copy of the infamous STAR FRONTIERS (tm)

Could you refresh my memory on the cause of the berserk, the bonuses, and the penalties?

The vague memory in my mind concerns the ability itself being mostly an advantage.

Also::
Mind Control is a perfectly legitimate approach also, and does not require a roll to be used, especially if the Yzairian ability is a voluntary berserk...

Mind Control (-1 ?, One Command - "Go Berserk", -1 Only affects Yazirians)

That "Only affects Yazirians" may be a much steeper limit, depending on the population of the Yazirians in Campaignia.

[AnotherSkip]

I sort of do get a bit ahead of myself. there are a few tangled questions there ill try and sort them out better.

and I suppose the rapid fire questions are unfair.
sorry for the confusion.

OKies, when/how do you force a skill/attribute check?

does entering a Change Environment field force a check if it involves (say -2 to all dex skill because of the icyness) a sudden reduction in competancy?


I guess the answer on the "game specific berzerk disad" is allready given so ill drop those questions.

erm actually the berzerk abilities is treated as a skill, it after all does confer much more in the way of advantages than any sort of disadvantages

a few other notes about my campaign.
if you look hard the Yazarians are well written up in the Star Frontiers thread over in the Star hero section.

for sanity ill post the relevant data here.:0 (see below)
Rage mages in addition to being arcane casters do fuel certain spells with spirits of rage.


Yazarian (plural: Yazarians, singular: He or She)

-2 pts___-2 STR
-4 pts___-2 CON
+1 pt____+1 INT
+3 pts___+1 DEX
3 pts____+1 Skill Level w/Climbing, Acrobatics, Breakfall
5 pts____Extra Limbs: Prehensile feet: Inherent (+1/4), No Actual Additional Limbs (-1/4)
1 pt_____Familiarity with Battle Rage (Based on EGO, 3/2)
5 pts____+2 OCV Levels (5 pt levels): Costs Endurance (-1/2), Requires Battle Rage Skill Roll to activate (-1/2)
2 pts____+5 STR: Costs 2x Endurance (-1/2), Linked to +2 OCV Levels (-1/2)
3 pts____5” Gliding: Inherent (+1/4), Effected by Gravity (-1/2), Must lose at least 1” per phase regardless of gravity/updrafts, etc (-1/4)
5 pts____Enhanced Perception: +4 Sight Group: Only to counter darkness modifiers (-1/2)
-10 pts__Physical Limitation: Light Sensitive (frequent/great)
0 pts____Physical Limitation: Yazarian
5 pts____Social Limitation: Battle Rage (occasional, minor, not limiting in some cultures)
5 pts____Social Limitation: Life Enemy (occasional, minor, not limiting in some cultures)
0 pts____Lifespan: 140 years, Fully active until 105. First Age Disadvantage at 70 years (40+ Disadvantage from rules), Second at 105 years (60+ Disadvantage from rules).

Total: 2 points

Explanation:

Having developed from an arboreal race, Yazarians are naturally able climbers and tumblers. They are able to use their feet, which also have opposable toes, allowing them to be used as ably as hands by Yazarians. The Extra Limbs power represents the fact that their legs and feet can be used like arms and hands, but because they do not actually have additional limbs (only 4 limbs total), a small Limitation is applied.

Yazarians are able to enter a Battle Rage. This focuses their attention and greatly increases their STR. The focused attention is represented by OCV Levels. These levels can only be used for OCV, but can be used for all attacks, ranged or melee.

The actual ability to enter Battle Rage comes from an EGO-based skill. It starts as a Familiarity, but can be bought up to full and increased normally. (1 point for Familiarity, +2 points for full EGO roll, +2 points for each additional +1 to EGO roll.) Remember that Yazarians must take a mandatory -1 to the roll (for the OCV Levels) to activate it. Because the additional STR is Linked to the OCV Levels, it is not necessary to make a Battle Rage skill roll to activate it once the OCV Levels have been activated.

Battle Rage lasts until the Yazarian has been out of combat for a full 5 minutes, or until the Yazarian passes out from loss of END. Note that 1 END per phase must be spent on the Battle Rage. In combat, this can add up rather quickly and result in the Yazarian passing out before the combat is actually over.

Yazarians have flaps of skin that go from their wrists to the side of their chest, hips, knees, and then ankles. Under certain circumstances, they are able to use these flaps to Glide. The Yazarian can not be suffering any DCV penalty because of Encumbrance (see p 250 in the BBB) in order to Glide. If they are Encumbered in any way, the Gliding does not work and they just Fall. (Generally a bad thing.) The Yazarian must also start at least 5” above ground in order to Glide.

Gliding is also affected by gravity on this planet as follows:

____________Max Glide Distance______Drop per phase
Standard______________25”___________________3”
Certain spells and powers may possibly change this, depending upon the powers and SFX's chosen.
Note this world has a slightly lighter gravity than Earth.

Because the extra Characteristics are defined as Powers, a Yazarian effectively has a maximum STR of 18, CON of 18, INT of 21, DEX of 21, END of 46, and STUN of 48.

Yazarians are able to see in almost anything short of total darkness, as they were originally nocturnal hunters. This also results in Yazarians being very sensitive to light. They must wear dark goggles in any but the dimmest light. If the ambient light modifiers are -3 or worse, Yazarians suffer no difficulties without their goggles. If the light modifiers are -2 or -1, Yazarians suffer a -2 to all combat values (OCV and DCV) and any skills that require the Yazarian to look at something in order to succeed at the skill. If the light values are +0 or +1, Yazarians suffer a -4 to all combat values and skills as above. If it is so bright that there is any light modifier at +2 or better, Yazarians are blind and must keep their eyes tightly closed. They are blind and can only use non-targeting senses (Hearing) in combat. This is represented by the Physical Limitation. Because Yazarian Sun Goggles are available at every civilized town, and because these Goggles are strapped fairly securely on around the Yazarian’s head, this Limitation is only worth 10 points. (The Sun Goggles appear much like Eskimo goggles designed to prevent people from being blinded from snow glare.)

Yazarians have more low point Disadvantages than any other race. The Physical Disadvantage for their body shape is because of their Gliding Flaps. These interfere with clothing and many Human-built items. However, the longer fingers with their extra knuckle allow Yazarians to reach in and manipulate switches and objects in smaller openings than other races.

The two Social Limitations are similar to Reputations, but are better described as Limitations that are not limiting in some cultures. In this case, the Social Limitation for Battle Rage is not a limitation among Yazarians. The Social Limitation for Life Enemy is not appropriate on Yazarian and Vrusk societies and members (because the Vrusk actually respect the Yazarian custom of choosing a Life Enemy).

The Battle Rage Limitation affects how other races react to Yazarians. Generally, Yazarians are thought of as being short-tempered, dangerous, berzerking combatants. This is not the actual case, Yazarians are no more likely to get enraged and use Battle Rage randomly than anyone else is inclined to randomly attack people that are rude to them on the road.

The Life Enemy Limitation comes from the Yazarian custom of choosing a specific enemy to conquer. This can be a person, organization, disease, or whatever. The Yazarian will then use all of his resources to overcome that enemy. Some Yazarians never choose a Life Enemy, but most do. The more difficult it is to overcome a particular Life Enemy, the more respect that Yazarian will receive from other Yazarians. This custom causes some to be wary around Yazarians just in case they are chosen as the Life Enemy.

If a real world example is needed for comprehension the Yazarians can be directly compared to human sized versions of Sugar Gliders from Australia. Please feel free to reference those creatures if more information and additonal ideas are needed. As note, this choice is slightly different from the original source material, but it does give a good ideas for basing the abilties and personalities of the Yazarian NPC's in the campaign world.


Yazarian Concept: Rage Mage
2, Battle Rage Skill 9 +Ego/5 (not availible to Non-Yazarians)
3, Arcane Magic Skill 9+ I/5
3, Arcane Magic Research 9+ I/5
3, +1 with Arcane Magic Skill Rolls
3, +1 With Perception Rolls
20, Spells of Rage ( Magical Skill Roll (-1/2), OIF(-1/2), Side Effects(-1/2), Gestures(-1/4), and Incantaions(-1/4), usually)
Typical Disadvantages:
10, Psy Lim: Overconfident, Angry, Irrational, Inscrutible, or Dark Secret.
10, Distinctive Features: Rage Mage or Battlescars, Reputation: Dangerous

These are the Yazarian Mages who accompany the warriors of both the day and the night, prepared to increase the powers of their teammates by incredible amounts, they typically do not rely on defensive magics. However, even an unamed mage can be a potent force to deal with in any situation. they use thier battleraging tendancies to fuel magics, often of an angry sort.



Does that make more sense?

[Farkling]

Hmmmm.

[Q]Battle Rage lasts until the Yazarian has been out of combat for a full 5 minutes, or until the Yazarian passes out from loss of END. Note that 1 END per phase must be spent on the Battle Rage. In combat, this can add up rather quickly and result in the Yazarian passing out before the combat is actually over. [/Q]

Assuming a REC of 6 and SPD 4, this character is getting a REC of 2 END per Turn if he does NOTHING else (which meets the "out of combat" limitation). If he does anything, he will (likely) be spending an extra END per phase, and losing 2 END per turn. This will exhaust his (standard) 40 END in 20 Turns...which is 4 minutes...so he's burning STUN points if he is doing anything that requires END during the five minutes "required" out of combat to recover. This puts him beside the road panting and trying to calm down, since game mechanics will knock him unconscious and meet the criteria.

I like this better (I think it's legal)::

Battle Rage { +2 OCV (10 AP), Requires Skill Roll (-1/2), 1 Recoverable Continuing Charge of 5 minutes (-1/4), Charge is recovered from spending 5 minutes out of combat, Minor Side Effect, Set Effect (Drains 1 END per phase while charge is in use, narrows battlefield awareness), Constant Power, Side Effect from Each Use (-1/2) }
Berserker Strength { +5 STR (5 AP), Only during Battle Rage (-1 1/2), x2 END Cost (-1/2), No Figured Char Bonus (-1/2) }

Let's see....thats 4 RP for the Battle Rage and 1 RP for the Strength boost. 2 RP for the STR if you prefer the Linked over the "Battle Rage" limitation.

I'm just fuzzy on whether that's an acceptable format for a recoverable charge... I like it though.

That STR construct opens the path for other "Rage Dependent" abilities too...I vaguely remember the extra damage and to hit bonus for HTH combat in the old game.

I also remember some kind of rumour that the Yazirian combat specialists could get more bang out of their battle rage abilities...

Or use as you have it. It's all nearly the same costing.

[Farkling]

does entering a Change Environment field force a check if it involves (say -2 to all dex skill because of the icyness) a sudden reduction in competancy?

My opinion is there is not a game mechanic for it...

Skill rolls are typically to perform an action, not avoid a consequence...

Now, a sufficient Change Enviro might force a DEX roll for runners if defined as ICE ... or for flyers if defined as WIND. I might call for a check to a character crossing the threshold (particularly at reckless speed). Otherwise they would need to be hefty penalties...sufficient to incapacitate (failure rate 90%) most mere mortals.

Breakfall isn't even a forced roll. It's a voluntary reaction to KnockBack.

Now...a power that can be reduced in effect by an ability check is limited...say::
6d6 EB, Area Effect Radius (x2), 2xKB, Knockback is applied in direction of current movement (Indirect, +1/2), Characters making a successful DEX check (-4) take no KB (-1/2 ? -1?).
SFX:: Instant Hailstorm and Ice Sheet cover the Area.

I think it was Killer Shrike that posited a "saving throw" limitation somehwere when we were talking about d20 systems.