Champions' Iconic Characters (Blasphemy next 500 words)

**MisterVimes** · Feb 28th, '03, 06:34 AM

Ok... I've been trying to think of a way to say this without hurting anyone's feelings. I have been voting for the Champions in the Champions vs. SAS battle... but I didn't want to. I voted for the Champions because I am a team player... but I really don't like our Iconic Characters very much.

I like Defender... and I like Kenetik (even though he's not officially one of the team)... and that's it. I don't like Ironclad (I miss Obsidian), I don't like the rest of them.

Honestly... I didn't like most of the last team. Then in CU we'd be introduced to all these other interesting characters.

You see, I was hoping for a team of Champions that looked like this:
1) Defender (l)
2) Crusader
3) Obsidian
4) Solitaire
5) Kenetik
6) *insert energy projector here*

But alas, I got the new team.
It's not that the new team is BAD... they just don't excite me... they don't thrill me and I don't have the feeling of familiarity of the old team (even if I didn't like 3 of them either).

I know this is a minor issue... heck, it's not even an issue. It's just me expressing an opinion.

I love HERO and I worship Champions... but couldn't we have had The Protectors instead?

*dons flame retardant suit*

**Monolith** · Feb 28th, '03, 06:59 AM

Personally, I do not exclusively vote for one side or the other. My vote is based on whichever story I like better. So sometimes I am a Hero-maniac and other times I am a GOO-turncoat.

As far as the Champions themselves, I am not sure which team I like better. Overall it might end up being the 5E team over the 4E team.

**MisterVimes** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by Monolith
Personally, I do not exclusively vote for one side or the other. My vote is based on whichever story I like better. So sometimes I am a Hero-maniac and other times I am a GOO-turncoat.

I feel so much better now... I wanted to vote for Mother Raven

**Monolith** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
I feel so much better now... I wanted to vote for Mother Raven

I did vote for Mother Raven... but don't tell anyone.

**MisterVimes** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:04 AM

Well keep it between you and me (and 666 other registered users)

**nblade** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by MisterVimes
Well keep it between you and me (and 666 other registered users)

I'm not sure that's possible, CNN just ran it as a story

**MisterVimes** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by nblade
I'm not sure that's possible, CNN just ran it as a story

I hate when that happens

**Kevin Scrivner** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:23 AM

6) *insert energy projector here*

Of course it's gotta be Sunburst, that media-loving irradiated scientist from 3rd edition.

I felt unable to choose between Witchcraft and Mother Raven since I have an aversion to occultish "heroes" in general and don't permit them in my games. Mother Raven had the cooler costume, however. Power-wise they seemed evenly matched. On the frog thing, hey, if a witch can't turn someone into a ubiquitous amphibian life form what's the point? It's part of the schtick.

**MisterVimes** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner
6) *insert energy projector here*

Of course it's gotta be Sunburst, that media-loving irradiated scientist from 3rd edition.

Starburst? Isn't Sunburst the badguy with the god-complex?

**Lord Liaden** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:39 AM

I've also been been voting either HERO or GOO depending on how I felt about each character and battle. I haven't felt a particular need to be loyal to the Champions, partly because the two companies haven't put pressure on us to choose sides.

I'm also a little underwhelmed by the current Champions, but I felt much the same about the previous incarnations from the BBB. I think that's partly because both incarnations were created as examples, to fill certain team roles and construction guidelines. Scott Heine's Protectors (which like for so many others, are my favorite heroes from published Champions books), were originally PCs or based on PCs. They had the depth that comes from individual attention being lavished on them, and from being played for some time in a good campaign.

I have to say, though, that I was much fonder of the experienced version of the Champions that appeared in the first edition of Champions Universe - all of them well over 400 pts. thanks to Experience. All of them had had their character sheets expanded in appropriate and interesting ways, and had their personalities and histories fleshed out to reflect their experiences, as if they had actually been played. That process went even farther for Seeker in Watchers of the Dragon and Solitaire in Ultimate Mentalist. I even came to like Seeker.

Perhaps when more experienced versions of the new Champs appear in a future rewrite, they'll seem meatier too.

**MisterVimes** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Lord Liaden
Perhaps when more experienced versions of the new Champs appear in a future rewrite, they'll seem meatier too.

Um... can't we start a petition to get a new hat for Blue Falcon and better shoes for Tinker-Brick?

**Acroyear** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:51 AM

You're thinking of Sunburst. Starburst was the guy with the Flash linked to the EB and teamed up with Crusader to stop Ogre from robbing a bank in early edition combat examples. And, iirc, is listed in the back of the BBB, also.

I don't like the Champions teams, either (all three of them, counting CNM). As examples of vanilla archetypes, they are ok, I guess. But they are pretty blah otherwise.

I never liked Solitaire, for example. I don't think "Magic" qualifies as tight special effect for something like an EC. I mean, let's face it, in gamer geekdom (and much to my annoyance) "magic can do anything." How or why magic should or could be the ultimate force in the universe... well, because it's magic.

Would you allow "EC: Alien" or "EC: Superpowered Mutant"? I sure wouldn't. Way too vague.

**tesuji** · Feb 28th, '03, 07:58 AM

But its not magic...

it "helpful witcheries"...

:-)

**Monolith** · Feb 28th, '03, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by Acroyear
Would you allow "EC: Alien" or "EC: Superpowered Mutant"? I sure wouldn't. Way too vague.

Same old arguments over and over.

Would I allow Alien Physiology or Mutant Physiology as and EC? It depends on if it makes sense that if you drain one slot of the EC all slots get drained. Does that come up often? No, but it does come up.

The same can be said for a Magic EC. If there is something about the way the spells in the EC are tied together that makes each of them weaker if one is weakened then it makes sense that it be part of an EC.

What is more abusive. 100 pt Magic Pool (costing 150 points and allow you to do anything with a Magic Roll and a Full Phase) or a 60 point Magic Elemental (allowing you to have the base EC and 4 other 60 AP slots)? In the long-run the VPP is far more abusive.

**MisterVimes** · Feb 28th, '03, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by Monolith
What is more abusive. 100 pt Magic Pool (costing 150 points and allow you to do anything with a Magic Roll and a Full Phase) or a 60 point Magic Elemental (allowing you to have the base EC and 4 other 60 AP slots)? In the long-run the VPP is far more abusive.

I'm with you on that. But I see the argument against EC (Magic) as well. If everyone in my campaign were mages, I don't think I'd allow it. But if you have a Light Elemental and an Ice Elemental in the game... why NOT a Magic Elemental?