New Power Framework Idea:

[Mutant for Hire]

Given the thread over Elemental Controls, which remain in some ways even more controvertial than VPPs, I decided to try to come up with a less controvertial alternative to them. I ignore the concept of thematic unity, since no one can agree on that anyway and just went for rule mechanics instead:

Power Group (warning sign)
A Power Group (PG) is a group of powers, considered to be linked together in some fashion or sharing some common element. In return for a discount on all powers in the PG, all powers in the PG are affected when a single power is affected by an Adjustment Power.

A Power Group has a Power Group Base . The base is a pool of points that may be used to discount powers. The base must be 1/5 the size of the largest size power. Only 1/5 of the points of any power in the PG may be paid for by the base. If 1/'5 of a power falls short of the base, the rest of the base's points are wasted. A PG may never exceed 1/5 of the AP cap in the game, period.

Almost any power or characteristic may be put into a Power Group. Primary Characterstics so discounted may not be used to add to the bonus of Figured Characterstics. If the GM so allows, the base of a Multipower or Variable Power Pool may also be put into a Power Group. The slot costs and control costs are not discounted. The GM should remind the player that placing a power framework in a Power Group makes the player more vulnerable to Adjustment powers and that enemies, Hunteds in particular, will be taking advantage of that. Skills may be placed in a Power Group only with explicit GM permission.

GMs should be very careful of any player with an Aid or Transfer that can affect the Power Group, as well as Healing or Regeneration for the Power Group. Likewise if teammates have these Adjustment powers, the GM should pay close attention as to the extent the player will be boosted and any power caps in the game.

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Design notes: I eased up the 1:1 benefit so I could widen the number of powers put into it. I chose 1:5 because it approximates a -1/4 disad on the whole. Sticking the base of a Multipower or VPP as well as characteristics into the PG is somewhat munchkinesque, but during the character design period the GM should simply come up with a Drain or Suppress power within the AP limits of the game and demonstrate it on the character and ask the player if they can deal with someone that crippled during a fight.

Starting characters can and probably will stick a lot if not all of their powers in a single PG. That's sort of cheesy but not really if they're willing to accept the consequences. A starting Defender might well have linked all of his systems in his power armor together for efficiency. As time goes on he'll decouple these systems so a failure in one place isn't going to affect other systems. Sapphire or Witchcraft which have Power Group: Mutant Physiology and Power Group: Magical Gift are going to have a harder time justifying decoupling their PGs, and may simply not do so.

[JohnOSpencer]

Not a bad idea, but I wouldn't even suggest being able to put a multipower or VPP in there, that would be a tad abusive(IMHO).

I like the idea of being able to put anything in there, not just abilities that cost end. I also like being able to put smaller powers in there. That is the biggest problem with an EC, all my players struggle to get the powers to the same point total, so they aren't wasting any points.

John Spencer

[Gary]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
Given the thread over Elemental Controls, which remain in some ways even more controvertial than VPPs, I decided to try to come up with a less controvertial alternative to them. I ignore the concept of thematic unity, since no one can agree on that anyway and just went for rule mechanics instead:

Power Group (warning sign)
A Power Group (PG) is a group of powers, considered to be linked together in some fashion or sharing some common element. In return for a discount on all powers in the PG, all powers in the PG are affected when a single power is affected by an Adjustment Power.

A Power Group has a Power Group Base . The base is a pool of points that may be used to discount powers. The base must be 1/5 the size of the largest size power. Only 1/5 of the points of any power in the PG may be paid for by the base. If 1/'5 of a power falls short of the base, the rest of the base's points are wasted. A PG may never exceed 1/5 of the AP cap in the game, period.

Almost any power or characteristic may be put into a Power Group. Primary Characterstics so discounted may not be used to add to the bonus of Figured Characterstics. If the GM so allows, the base of a Multipower or Variable Power Pool may also be put into a Power Group. The slot costs and control costs are not discounted. The GM should remind the player that placing a power framework in a Power Group makes the player more vulnerable to Adjustment powers and that enemies, Hunteds in particular, will be taking advantage of that. Skills may be placed in a Power Group only with explicit GM permission.

GMs should be very careful of any player with an Aid or Transfer that can affect the Power Group, as well as Healing or Regeneration for the Power Group. Likewise if teammates have these Adjustment powers, the GM should pay close attention as to the extent the player will be boosted and any power caps in the game.

--
Design notes: I eased up the 1:1 benefit so I could widen the number of powers put into it. I chose 1:5 because it approximates a -1/4 disad on the whole. Sticking the base of a Multipower or VPP as well as characteristics into the PG is somewhat munchkinesque, but during the character design period the GM should simply come up with a Drain or Suppress power within the AP limits of the game and demonstrate it on the character and ask the player if they can deal with someone that crippled during a fight.

Starting characters can and probably will stick a lot if not all of their powers in a single PG. That's sort of cheesy but not really if they're willing to accept the consequences. A starting Defender might well have linked all of his systems in his power armor together for efficiency. As time goes on he'll decouple these systems so a failure in one place isn't going to affect other systems. Sapphire or Witchcraft which have Power Group: Mutant Physiology and Power Group: Magical Gift are going to have a harder time justifying decoupling their PGs, and may simply not do so.

Why not simply give a -1/4 or -1/2 'drain one drain all' limitation to all affected powers? It's a lot simpler and more elegant.

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Gary
Why not simply give a -1/4 or -1/2 'drain one drain all' limitation to all affected powers? It's a lot simpler and more elegant.

Yes and no. Your method gives no benefit to having as many powers as possible in a power group. If I have four powers, it's no more expensive to have two power groups than to have one. My system, the more powers you link together, the greater the benefits.

As to whether or not Multipowers and VPPs can go in a power group, I don't consider it any more cheasy than all of a character's powers and a pile of their characteristics bought OIF, including a multipower.

[Gary]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
Yes and no. Your method gives no benefit to having as many powers as possible in a power group. If I have four powers, it's no more expensive to have two power groups than to have one. My system, the more powers you link together, the greater the benefits.

As to whether or not Multipowers and VPPs can go in a power group, I don't consider it any more cheasy than all of a character's powers and a pile of their characteristics bought OIF, including a multipower.

My method can give a bigger savings to having more powers. It's a bigger limitation to have 8 powers linked than 3 powers since 8 possible drains will affect the group rather than 3.

All you have to do is give -1/4 for every 3 powers linked, up to a maximum of -1/2 to -1 depending on how common adjustment powers are in the campaign. Reduce this limitation if the character has significant power defense, or is placing really obscure powers in this grouping.

My method does have a major advantage in that you can put unequal size powers in the groupings. No longer will you have to have 6 40 pt powers for example. You can have a 60 pt power, a 45 pt power, a 35 pt power, a 20 pt power, and a 12 pt power in the same 'framework'.

[BasilDrag]

OK, I read and re-read this, and I still have some questions about what you're trying to do.

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire
Given the thread over Elemental Controls, which remain in some ways even more controvertial than VPPs, I decided to try to come up with a less controvertial alternative to them. I ignore the concept of thematic unity, since no one can agree on that anyway and just went for rule mechanics instead:

Power Group (warning sign)
A Power Group (PG) is a group of powers, considered to be linked together in some fashion or sharing some common element. In return for a discount on all powers in the PG, all powers in the PG are affected when a single power is affected by an Adjustment Power.

A Power Group has a Power Group Base . The base is a pool of points that may be used to discount powers.

"Discount" them how? That's not covered fully, though I suspect you mean in a manner similar to EC's, where you subtract the number of points in the pool from the Active Cost of the Power (though never more than half the number of Active Points in the Power)

The base must be 1/5 the size of the largest size power.

Do you mean no more than 1/5? Or is it required to be 1/5, no more and no less?

Only 1/5 of the points of any power in the PG may be paid for by the base.

Do you mean Active Cost? "points" might refer to Real Cost or Base Cost.

If 1/'5 of a power falls short of the base, the rest of the base's points are wasted.

This I can't make hide nor hair of. Could you rephrase that, please?

A PG may never exceed 1/5 of the AP cap in the game, period.

Almost any power or characteristic may be put into a Power Group. Primary Characterstics so discounted may not be used to add to the bonus of Figured Characterstics.

I think you mean "...do not add to Figured Characateristics." Or are you referring to (gosh-knows-what) as a Figured Characteristic's "bonus"?

Explanations will be appreciated.

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Why does the sun come out during the day, when it would be so much more useful if it came out at night when it's dark?