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Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?


arcady

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Would there be a point to books on these genres?

 

Or is it just something 'we can work up on our own'?

 

I know I'd buy them. Heck, I'd write them. :P

 

A lot of people thought the first version of Cyber Hero was pretty bad. I remember the talk. But then, a lot of people said the same thing about Star Hero back in the day, and look where it's come now...

 

Done right, would these be good ideas for books?

 

Certainly WotC proved there's a place for modern genre books, even if it's not their best seller (from what I hear from the completely uninformed rumor mill ;) ).

 

What would these book be about?

 

Am I the only one who wants them? I know there's another thread on converting GURPS' Transhuman Space over to Hero, but what if instead we/they looked back to the genre fiction, and wrote it the Hero way?

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

Would there be a point to books on these genres?
The upcoming Dark Champions essentially is "Modern Hero." Between that and Star Hero' date='[/i'] you can cobble together a reasonable Cyber Hero game, although I'd expect that Hero Games will eventually do a Cyber Hero book at some point.
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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

The new Dark Champions covers the entire "modern-day action-adventure" genre -- everything from costumed vigilantes, to spies, to military action, to cops, to you name it. ;) And, naturally, the information in it would be useful in any game set in the modern day, such as a mainstream Champions campaign or an Urban Fantasy Hero game.

 

As for Cyber Hero, I think we could do a pretty darn good one, and we intend to at some point. However, it's not a high priority at this point for a couple of reasons. First, the (sub)genre's not as popular now as it was 10-15 years ago (even if we expand it to cover biopunk, nanopunk, etc.). Second, between what you can find in Star Hero and Dark Champions, you've got well over half of what you need for a CH game, so we can hold off on CH and cover other genres that have no (or fewer) resources available in print.

 

When the time comes, we'll definitely open up the floor for a "what do you want to see?" discussion for CH. :hex:

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

Thing is, transhumanism is quite a bit different than cyberpunk.

 

In the 20 years since cyberpunk became popular, the possibilities of how humans would augment themselves has changed drastically. More importantly, the reason why people would augment themselves has changed. Cyberpunk was basically punk with cyborgs (augmented humans). Transhumanism and Extopianism is more about how society has been impacted by technology to the point that we have to question, "what does it mean to be human?". Very different atmospheres.

 

Whereas cyberpunk was mostly about bionic augmentation, transhumanism deals with artificial intelligences, genetically modified beings, and nanotechnology. Hacking into the net takes on a new meaning in transhumanism when the virtual world is inhabited by other lifeforms, and that the net is everywhere (just think how rapidly wireless technology has popped up...imagine what it will be like 20 years from now).

 

I think the greater difference though really is in handling how society itself has changed. Cyberpunk was about fighting "the man" (corporations). Transhumanism is about grappling with the idea of how the self fits into society, especially when its hard to define what exactly the self is. Transhumanism is much more ripe for roleplaying ideas than cyberpunk. It is a very sophisticated genre that requires a lot of forethought and planning to pull off, but the reward is some very deep roleplaying possibilities.

 

I for one would love to see a Transhuman genre book. If GURPs can do it, then Hero should definitely be able to do it.

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

I was under the impression that Dark Champions was a 'street supers' genre book.

 

It seemed pretty different back when from Danger International.

 

Yes, Dark Champions is going to cover modern gaming but your belief on what Dark champions is, is exactly what many of us fear with the use of Dark Champions for the modern book, in fact a thread of its own was started just for this reason called (can you believe it) should this be called Dark Champions.

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17561

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

I agree with everything Dauntless said about Transhuman Space, except the need for Hero to do a book of it. I just can't imagine Hero doing a better job of encapsulating the setting than SJG has done. Hero supplements tend to be rather broad and cartoony. That's good for most action genres, but it'd be death for Transhuman Space. TS is all about hard sci-fi. In my estimation, it's the most sophisticated game currently on the market. If Hero were to publish a version of it, they'd be doing a LOT of catch up. (There are already about 10 GURPS TS books out) And I don't think they'd be able to draw away many of the current GURPS TS fans. That wouldn't leave them with much of a customer base. Hero seems to do much better with broad genre books than with specific settings. There probably better off playing to their strengths.

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

I think Hero could do a fine genre book for Transhuman Space. You're not giving the authors or the game enough credit, IMO. I'm not a HERO zealot, but there's no reason Hero couldn't handle Hard Sci Fi.

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

Well, it seems that between Dark Champions and Star Hero one could fashion a pretty decent Cyberpunk game.

 

However, I do think Hero Games should consider the possibility of releasing The Ultimate Cyborg or something along those lines. It could detail how to build Cybernetic-based characters and have lists of pre-built cyber-goodies for those who don't have time to write up their own....and probably a chapter on Cyber-based campaigns expanding on whats possible using DC and SH. And of course, a full chapter on Net-running, which should be relevant for any campaign that posseses advanced computer and cybernetic technologies...

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

Nexus,

 

It's not that Hero would have to do a fine job with Transhuman Space, it's that they would have to do such a spectacularly awesome job of it that they could convince the gamers currently playing the GURPS version to switch over to Hero. Since GURPS TS is already one of the two or three best RPG lines I've read, EVER, I think it'd be a bit more than a mere challenge to pull that off. I mean, I love Hero. It's my favorite system of all time. And I hate the GURPS system, but I've already invested close to 300$ in GURPS TS. Am I really going to give that up now just to save myself the trouble of converting GURPS stats to Hero? Not likely.

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

Nexus,

 

It's not that Hero would have to do a fine job with Transhuman Space, it's that they would have to do such a spectacularly awesome job of it that they could convince the gamers currently playing the GURPS version to switch over to Hero. Since GURPS TS is already one of the two or three best RPG lines I've read, EVER, I think it'd be a bit more than a mere challenge to pull that off. I mean, I love Hero. It's my favorite system of all time. And I hate the GURPS system, but I've already invested close to 300$ in GURPS TS. Am I really going to give that up now just to save myself the trouble of converting GURPS stats to Hero? Not likely.

 

I have all the GURPS THS stuff myself (and about a 500 dollars in other gurps material). I'm not talking about ripping off THS exactly, but a near future, Hard science that focuses on aspects of transhumanism. More of a genre book, or perhaps an offical setting not Hero does GURPS Transhuman Space. You can easily convert for that.

 

I don't mind GURPS at all, but I find HERO does a better job in setting where "powers" are going to be commonn. A Transhumanist setting could easily be like that.

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

The problem with the GURPS version is that it is a setting book, not a genre book.

 

The Transhuman genre really is the modern science fiction genre - although that name is not the name used for it outside of gaming.

 

 

On the idea that Dark Champions is not a super's book... If I wanted to run 'Lupin III', would it be the book for me?

 

If I wanted to run 'The Sopranos', or 'The Fugative', or 'CSI:Hero', or 'James Bond', or 'Indiana Jones'.

 

Maybe I'm stuck in names... but I remember Dark Champions under 4E - it was inspired by all the comic books I couldn't stand; Nick Fury, Punisher, Cable, and so on...

 

It was a -very- different genre than Espionage, Danger International, and Justice Inc.

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

I agree with Arcady. It would be interesting to see a Transhuman genre book, although a setting wouldn't be too bad. While I agree that competing with Transhuman Space would be a daunting task, I think that a genre book would help allow users to convert TS into Hero terms.

 

After discovering the Transhuman/Extopian genre, I can't really play regular sci-fi anymore since it just seems so....well, like fantasy in disguise. What always attracted me to sci-fi was that it seemed plausible and possible. It was something that could happen in the future. After reading about these new views of how society could evolve in Transhumanism, I see regular sci-fi as pretty much like any other story but with starships, laser guns and big eyed drooling monsters (instead of swords, horses and big eyed drooling monsters).

 

The potential for some powerful introspection about one's self-identity, and about the direction technology is taking us is very powerful in the Transhuman genre. In fact, it was so intriguing that it got me worried because this potentially really could happen. In our lifetimes even. The idea of a singularity (or asymptote as its sometimes called) is a real possibility. If you think I'm being melodramatic, go to Ray Kurzweil's Site and look it over. The genre even got me reinterested in metaphysics and epistemology over the concerns and possibility of Artificial Intelligence (although I am a Comp Sci major, so it's always been of interest).

 

If there is one disadvantage to the Transhumanist genre, it's that it is a very sophisticated genre that requires a subtle blend of philosophy, political science, psychology, and the necessary human conflict that drives all adventures. But if conflict is solely about augmented (genetically or otherwise) humans duking it out vs. androids(cybershells), bioroids(replicants), nanite swarms, or even virtual life(web life forms) then I think the genre would be misused. It's not like a White Wolf game where you get to play some kind of super-powered being for the sheer sake of having a super-powered character with angst. Rather it's a genre that requires a lot of looking within and trying to figure what direction you want things to go for society as a whole. In other words, it's a difficult genre to play in, and it requires players with open minds, and a GM who is sophisticated and can pull off all those subtleties.

 

Check out Greg Porter's NeoTerra for an unusual take on a (sort of)Transhumanist setting.

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

Have you seen the Kazei 5 sourcebook? It has a lot of cyber material, and based on your comments is a sort of proto-Transhuman setting (created before I'd ever hear of the Transhuman genre). If/when it is revised for 5th edition, it will concentrate more on the Transhuman aspects of the setting, that's for sure. Granted, having a heavy anime influence there is a strong concentration on the action/adventure side, but it might have some elements of interest to you.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

The upcoming Dark Champions essentially is "Modern Hero." Between that and Star Hero' date='[/i'] you can cobble together a reasonable Cyber Hero game, although I'd expect that Hero Games will eventually do a Cyber Hero book at some point.

 

That's what Mr. Long said to me a while back. Problem is, I'm not very good at cobbling. :)

 

I'd really like a CyberHero book--but, not so much that I'd want the company to lose cash on it. Is there really so little a demand for it? (%)

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Re: Modern Hero? Cyber/Transhuman Hero? should they publish these?

 

I'm not sure what the exact level of demand is, except that it's lower than many other genres. It's simply not as popular as it was back in the 80s and 90s. Today we'd also need to expand it to cover biopunk, nanopunk, and the like.

 

The upside is that when it comes time to write CH, large chunks of it can pretty much just be copied as-is from other genre books (SH and DC). It should be a pretty easy write; mainly it just needs new rules for things like cyberware and netrunning. In fact, it might make more sense, from a sort of customer service standpoint, to do with CH what WOTC is doing with D20 Future -- just write up a book with the new stuff and SH stuff you need, and make sure it says on the back cover that you need Dark Champions for everything else.

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