Mark Taylor Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 How would you guys build a "Bag of Holding" style item in HERO System. I can think of several ways, but somehow none of them feel quite right. Extra Dimensional movement to some kind of pocket dimension? (This is the way Fantasy HERO does it, but doesn't feel quite right to be. Probably because it assumes the pre-existence of a convenient pocket dimension!) Transform objects to weightless, sizeless versions of objects? Extra STR only for the purposes of carrying stuff? Any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Re: "Bag of Holding" Steve Long's got a pretty good write-up of the item you want in the Rules FAQ under the "Reasoning From Effects" section. It consists of two EDMs; one for putting items in, and one for drawing them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intrope Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Re: "Bag of Holding" While I like the whole reasoning from effects idea, I personally think that EDM for Bags of Holding does nothing of the sort: the effect of a Bag is that you can carry a vast amount of stuff! What I'd do is something more like: 10 STR, only to carry goods (-1 1/2), doesn't add to base strength (-1/4), only goods that can fit through the bag's opening (-1/4), ruptures if sharp objects inserted (-1/4), bad things happen if it's placed into another extradimensional container (-1/4), takes a full phase to access an item (-1/4), OIF bag (-1/2), no end (+1/2), persistent (+1/2), invible power effects (+1). [real cost: 7] All limitation values are IMO only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted September 25, 2004 Report Share Posted September 25, 2004 Re: "Bag of Holding" A couple of years back, someone suggested a new power called Internal Spaces which would define objects (vehicles, foci, bases, characters) as having the ability to store more within it by having greater volume inside than outside and/or negation of the internal weight. My favorite way (within the current rules) is Shrinking which seems to fit the special effects of Bag of Holding and EDM which seems to fit Portable Holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchman Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Re: "Bag of Holding" I have always liked the shrinking method, but upon creating a write-up, it seems way too expensive. Thankfully, in a fantasy game, it's equipment, so it costs no character points. Bag of Holding: Shrinking (0.0312 m tall, 0.0004 kg mass, -12 PER Rolls to perceive character, +12 DCV, takes +18" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Usable As Attack (+1) (180 Active Points); Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the bag is put into another extradimensional space; Tears a Rift in Dimensions; -3/4), OIF (Bag; -1/2), Only works on items that can fit through the bags opening. (-1/2), Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character puts something pointy inside of it; All items contained are lost; -1/4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" What about ... Bag of Holding/Robe of Useful Things/ etc. 1d6 Major Transform (to 1/16 size object or patch) Continuous +1, Persistent+.5, 0 End+.5, Difficult to dispel x16 (+1)Untransformed when removed from object (-0), OAF (bag) -1, Real Object (requires search time when full, rips if sharp object placed inside, etc.) -1/2 Disadvantage: Susceptibility to E-spaces -15 points. Active: 60 pts. Real: 24 pts. - 15 pts disads. = 9 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorpheousXO Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" I rather like the buying of independant str for the bags, that way you can more easily mimic the different sized bags than with edm, which could cost the same points-wise no matter how much the bag could hold. Anyways, that's how I'd do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" OK, to go completely off the wall, what about building it as a Vehicle with small exterior size, large interior size and no movement of its own? You put objects in up to its carrying capacity, then you carry it away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" This could be considered the classic Tardis. How I would create the Tardis would probably be something like this... Interior = Base on a different dimension. Build as base. Add mind link to call box. Add physical limitation actions affecting call box affect base in proportion. Exterior = a vehicle with extra-dimensional movement on passengers to Interior. Vehicle has mind link to base. various movement powers available. Add physical limitation actions affecting base affect call box in proportion. However, the classic cosmic clown car would probably be like how I described the bag of holding probably requiring a contortionist skill roll to enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" The EDM works for me. D&D describes it as putting the junk into a pocket dimension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" The EDM works for me. D&D describes it as putting the junk into a pocket dimension. Conceptually, I agree. Mechanically, why have one that only holds 100 pounds when one with unlimited capacity will have precisely the same point cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtelson Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Also the point cost for value of effect is outrageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Well, theoretically, both have their advantages and limitations. Using EDM, an extradimensional traveller could by effect and mechanic travel to the dimension of the hole and take items without being noted. (Note that in other game systems this is a danger of using those items and part of the fun!) A shrinking version would require a targeting of the item and be more difficult to take an exact item without the users knowledge. It all depends on what floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Anomaly Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" This could be considered the classic Tardis. How I would create the Tardis would probably be something like this... Interior = Base on a different dimension. Build as base. Add mind link to call box. Add physical limitation actions affecting call box affect base in proportion. Exterior = a vehicle with extra-dimensional movement on passengers to Interior. Vehicle has mind link to base. various movement powers available. Add physical limitation actions affecting base affect call box in proportion. And that is pretty much how I wrote up the Tardis when I did it. I think I have the write-up somewhere on the forums... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" I played a character who's stomach was a bag of holding. He just put stuff in his mouth and pulled it out later. I used the STR method with Invisible power effects. I also put some concealment levels on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Conceptually' date=' I agree. Mechanically, why have one that only holds 100 pounds when one with unlimited capacity will have precisely the same point cost?[/quote'] Depends on the Limitations then doesn't it? Small Bag "Only 100 kg Worth Of Stuff" -1 Medium Bag "Only 500 kg Worth Of Stuff" -1/2 Large Bag "Only 1000 kg Worth Of Stuff" -0 (or -1/4 if you really think it should have a Lim) That effectively differentiates between bags of different sizes/capacities within the Setting/Game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorpheousXO Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" While I like the whole reasoning from effects idea, I personally think that EDM for Bags of Holding does nothing of the sort: the effect of a Bag is that you can carry a vast amount of stuff! What I'd do is something more like: 10 STR, only to carry goods (-1 1/2), doesn't add to base strength (-1/4), only goods that can fit through the bag's opening (-1/4), ruptures if sharp objects inserted (-1/4), bad things happen if it's placed into another extradimensional container (-1/4), takes a full phase to access an item (-1/4), OIF bag (-1/2), no end (+1/2), persistent (+1/2), invible power effects (+1). [real cost: 7] All limitation values are IMO only. Just noticed when putting this into HERO Designer that it's only 5 points RC, because STR is already persistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsatow Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" I played a character who's stomach was a bag of holding. He just put stuff in his mouth and pulled it out later. I used the STR method with Invisible power effects. I also put some concealment levels on it. Ack! I can just see some bad situations... Asking the hero to hold another hero's lunch... Asking the hero to hold the dead body as a clue... Asking the hero to hold his favorite signed picture or Lindsy Lohan only to get it back covered in stomach slime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjvargas Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Ultimate Super Mage has a great idea for the 'spacial' part of it: =-=-= Space Warping This expands, twists or otherwise reshapes the rooms in a building so it can have more space inside or to create “Escher effects.” Cost Powers END Change Environment 4" Radius, Any Spatial Distortion (+1), 0 END Persistent [45] =-=-= This is easily adapted to a bag. Then just add on some highly limited Str and you are done. Further, to replicate "Heward's Handy Haversack" (( Heward's Handy Haversack: this backpack always weighs five pounds and is always the size of a normal backpack. It has two small side pouches that, like a bag of holding, can hold two cubic feet, much more than normal, or 20 pounds of material, while the larger central portion can hold 8 cubic feet or 80 pounds. The advantage of the handy haversack is that any item placed inside will be "handy", that is, located on top when intentionally sought. For example, if one were to place a dagger inside the haversack and cover it with a load of paper, upon searching for the dagger it would magically appear above the paper.)) Build an Independent Multipower for it, do the above Space Warping + STR thing, add in some highly limited INT that applies just to the backpack, a highly limited Telepathy between the backpack and wearer so the bag knows what the owner wants to pull out, and a highly limited Teleport to bring the item front and center. Or hell, just pay for a "Follower" and build it cheaply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted June 17, 2007 Report Share Posted June 17, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" You could easily build any of the D&D trans-dimensional storage receptacles with an appropriately limited/advantaged Summon It would have OAF of course, and for items like the Bag of Holding (which doesn't order the contents) it could have an Activation Roll to represent the time you have to spend fossicking around in it to find the thing you want. It would need the "Expanded Class" advantage - the level would be dependent on the GM, but I'd go for about +1/2, because although you could "Summon" just about anything, the thing does already have to been put in the bag one way or another. Where this method falls down would be in having to determine a maximum points value for items stored and retrieved this way. A kindly GM could just hand-wave it, while a cruel GM could use it as a means of getting rid of the Sceptre of Campaign Destruction he stupidly let the player get gis hands on -- he could put it into the bag, but never get it out again because it's too powerful to Summon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjvargas Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Actually, thinking about it more (and trying various methods to create one (Hewards)) using Designer, A simple Desolidification attached to a backpack Focus, Independent, 0 END, and a couple of other reasonable limitations, is pretty cheap and easy to make. And expanding on what Fitz says above, the Hewards can have a linked power Summon, Usable on Others (highly limited), if you want it to 'summon' the item you want to the top. (Could be that it desolidifies by putting contents into a pocket dimension for those who like to keep that flavor) Hmmm...still thinking... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjvargas Posted June 18, 2007 Report Share Posted June 18, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Ok, here is my final effort - I am sticking with this one for my character (and hopefully my GM agrees). Opinions welcomed if anyone cares, but no biggie - just sharing thoughts. Bag of Holding: Teleportation 1" x2 Increased Mass Usable By Other (+1/4) Area Of Effect Nonselective (Much less than one hex; +1/4) Additional Cost for Fixed Location to be less than 1"=1km for Mega Scale (+1/4) GATE (+1/2) MegaScale (1" = 1,000 km; +1) Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (24 Active Points) Independent (Anyone can use the item backpack as is, and with magickal skill, can reset the Fixed Locations; -2) Extra Time (Extra Phase, to place item gently on surface when putting item in, and to rummage/feel for proper item when withdrawing.; -1) OIF Bulky (Backpack; -1) Can Only Teleport To Floating Fixed Locations (-1/2) Real Cost: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsousa Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Without doing the math, I would use the Gate rules for Teleportation as they apply to Extra Dimensional Movement, and the increased mass adders to define an upper limit to the bag... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drhoz Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Wouldn't Transform x kg to (effectively) air ; OAF; limited to whatever will fit thru the mouth of the bag; extreme vulnerability to dimensional anomalies & puncturing, be one way to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted June 19, 2007 Report Share Posted June 19, 2007 Re: "Bag of Holding" Space Warping This expands, twists or otherwise reshapes the rooms in a building so it can have more space inside or to create “Escher effects.” Cost Powers END Change Environment 4" Radius, Any Spatial Distortion (+1), 0 END Persistent [45] =-=-= This is easily adapted to a bag. Then just add on some highly limited Str and you are done. "Change Environment?" WTF?! That's rad! Without doing the math' date=' I would use the Gate rules for Teleportation as they apply to Extra Dimensional Movement, and the increased mass adders to define an upper limit to the bag...[/quote'] Coolness. --------------- Instead of using some other dimension, you could just have the bag's opening be a gate to somewhere else... teleport vs. x-d. I'd choose a nice inverted black pyramid on Planet Yog (base); or the trunk of an antimatter 57 chevy falling out of some random black hole (vehicle... don't touch the sides) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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