Jump to content

Oihid


Gary

Recommended Posts

Re: Oihid

 

You read much Spider-man? Peter has just as much trouble in his life as Spider-man does. Perhaps you don't actually role-play non-hero time but many of us do, and it's at those times that it comes into play. I believe the rule in 5E is that a -1/4 limitation should effect the character about one in four adventures. That means it's the GM's responsibility to cause some grief for the character during those times.

 

It's all special effects based though. Maybe Tony Stark has debris fall on him before he can put on his armor when the museum is attacked. Maybe Colossus is trapped in a chemical factory that eats metal if he changes to that form. Maybe Billy Batson is on the school bus when it gets trapped and all his friends will see him change when he says SHAZAM. These are all the things the GM needs to decide when planning the adventure.

 

 

Spiderman has his powers all the time. And comics are very different from a RPG.

 

What you've described would be a problem for someone with a Secret ID anyway, whether or not they had OIHID. They can't just reveal themselves and use their powers anyway. OIHID has nothing to do with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 546
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Re: Oihid

 

More often than OIHID. Foci can be destroyed' date=' damaged, or taken away. Once a person is in heroic ID, it takes a skilled mind controller or someone with a hostage to force the player back into normal ID. And that's assuming the opponent knows about the normal ID.[/quote']

 

Eh. This is campaign and SFX dependant as well. As the GM, you still have a license to force the change back any time you'd like, or to cause problems for the character in his civilian ID, including blocking the change. And in anticipation of the question (;)), yes, I've done all three, and would expect to see all three done if I played such a character. Also, any HID can be destroyed, damaged or taken away, if that's what the GM wants to do.

 

If it's a problem (and I don't see why it would be with good players), you can always allow a Dispell vs. All Magic to force the change back as a 0 point limit built into a magical OIHID, or rule that the character changes back when unconcious, or rule that the character changes back when stunned.

 

As an example of the last, my wife had a character way back in 3rd Ed. who changed into Hero Id by mixing Instant Change, Growth, and Density Increase. When unconcius it would change back from being a Giant Robot to a twelve year old boy. Worked fine, and I'd have no trouble approving that character today built with OIHID.

 

The point being, none of this is beyond the GMs ability to balance with very little effort.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

Spiderman has his powers all the time. And comics are very different from a RPG.

 

While I agree that there are media differences (books and movies/TV have the same problem translating), when the goal of the RPG is to simulate the comics, it seems appropriate to endeavour to minimize those differences.

 

What you've described would be a problem for someone with a Secret ID anyway' date=' whether or not they had OIHID. They can't just reveal themselves and use their powers anyway. OIHID has nothing to do with it.[/quote']

 

Peter/Spidey can:

 

(a) Sense the danger of the sniper taking aim on him.

 

(B) Turn down an alley to change clothes

 

© "Trip" and fall to the ground when his danger sense spikes, as the sniper shoots before he gets there.

 

If he had OIHID, he'd be shot before he knew what hit him. That doesn't have to mean "transform head to fine red mist". It could mean "captured by tranqs" or "infected with strange toxin and blackmailed for his life".

 

Note that it doesn't matter whether he could have aborted to change into his hero ID - he had no reason to do so.

 

Another example: Peter's with a reporter from the Bugle. They want to get into an office, but it's locked. The occupant's native language is sanskrit - Petercan't read it, but the reporter can. Coming back as Spidey won't work for this reason. Ah, but Peter twists the knob hard with his Spider-strength. "Hey, it was just stuck!" If his STR was OIHID, he lacks that opportunity.

 

If we were talking about giving characters the ability to avoid these annoyances for free, you'd tell us how unfair that is - they should pay points for the advantage. However, because here it's a rebate of points for sacrificing the advantage, you want to cap the rebate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

Put "Activates 15-" on 300 points of abilities' date=' and our character has 110 left to play with. That's the same -1/4 limitation as IIF or OIHID.[/quote']

 

In actual practice, nobody puts activation roll on that many points of abilities.

 

 

One time in 20 when the character tries to use each power, it will fail. 19 times in 20, it will work. However, the very next phase, he can try to use the power again. If his main defense Acts 15-, he'll have a problem if it fails to activate. But the 60 pooints saved by having 300 points Act 15- can pay for a very nice defensive suite with no activation roll. Or he can gamble and have a 75 point defensive suite, significantly enhancing durability if the activation rolls work in his favour (and, as you say, the GM probably won't just kill him if is defenses fail to activate - he'll be out of the rest of the battle, at worst). BOTTOM LINE: Act 15- will affect the character 1 out of 20 times he tries to use each power.

 

 

Putting Activation Rolls on your defenses or movements is just stupid. A character gets hit hundreds of times in his adventuring career. If he has no defenses 5% of the time, he'll die just from normal adventuring. Not to mention how much it would bog the game down from the player making 5 rolls per phase.

 

 

 

Now let's look at our OIF or OIHID (or my favorite "not in an intense magnetic field") character. If, one scenario in 20, his powers are completely unavailable, is that seriously a lesser drawback than 1 in 20 attempted uses of the power failing? If I don't have my IIF, or am not in hero ID, I have absolutely no chance at accessing those powers. And characters with IIF or OIHID saving lots of points commonly have most of their defensive powers tied up in those limitations. The bigger problem, IMO, is that these characters operate in binary mode. Either they have all their powers, or they are doomed in a typical scenario. As such, it's much easier to perceive the GM as "picking on" the characters by exploiting these limitations (much like a character with 3d6 Stun and BOD susceptibility from sunlight perceives himself being picked on when Dr. Vampire is forced out into the light). The player choosing OIHID for a major power suite should be told up front that this means there WILL be times when those powers are unavailable, possibly for an entire session or story arc. If the player isn't prepared to accept that, the limitation should be removed.

 

 

It depends. How easy is it for the player to get into heroic ID? Can the player abort to it? Does the player have reasonable defenses or DCV in normal ID? As the GM are you willing to ask the player to sit out an entire story arc? Can the player play a substitute character during the 1 in 20 sessions where he's out?

 

 

 

BTW, Gary, I still don't get your physical limitation issue. If your goal is to cap the points benefit of OIHID, the formula for Physical Limitation imposes an effective cap. You need to assess how limiting it is (frequency and level of impairment), which to some extent will be influenced by the number of points affected. Saying "You get the same points as OIHID to the max points from one disadvantage category" seems much less clear that you view this as a disadvantage and not a limitation. It seems to create a third, hybrid category.

 

It is sorta a hybrid category. But what it does is to allow people to take OIHID without unbalancing the character compared to people who buy their powers straight. And since this is a Disad that doesn't increase the power level of the character, it ensures that only people who want it for conception purposes would take it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

The trouble with buying limitations as disadvantages is that it becomes a bit awkward when you don't want to apply the limitations to a few of the points the character is built on. Take Superman. I've said that he doesn't have HIDIHO' date=' IMO at all, but I've thought again. Those glasses he wears as CK probably IMPAIR his uber-vision. What if all you wanted to buy the limitation on was a few points of a 1000+ point character? There would be no realistic way of doing it. Fine if you are Billy Batson, not fine if you are Clark Kent.[/quote']

 

 

That's why I would scale how many points you get back to how many points of powers the limitation affects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WhammeWhamme

Re: Oihid

 

Putting Activation Rolls on your defenses or movements is just stupid. A character gets hit hundreds of times in his adventuring career. If he has no defenses 5% of the time, he'll die just from normal adventuring. Not to mention how much it would bog the game down from the player making 5 rolls per phase.

[/Quote]

 

How about on everything apart from his defenses? Or even on part of his defenses? (Which WAS what was suggested 'use the 60 pts saved to buy extra defenses...')

 

(Or, do what I did for my latest 250 Mentalist - 'Activation 14-, Only to Activate' (-1/4) on the Constant Powers)

 

It is sorta a hybrid category. But what it does is to allow people to take OIHID without unbalancing the character compared to people who buy their powers straight. And since this is a Disad that doesn't increase the power level of the character, it ensures that only people who want it for conception purposes would take it.

 

It also makes their characters _boring_. Disadavantages are the spice. Anything that reduces the Disadvantages (/incentivizes it) is boring. Yes, the limitations system may slightly favour Limited Powers... but that's because they're more interesting.

 

"I use my EB" (yawn)

"Right... I hit the button on my headset to unleash my Eyebeams... what? It's jammed? @#$%!!!!!!!!!!!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

That's why I would scale how many points you get back to how many points of powers the limitation affects.

 

That's what the present limitation does - you get 1 point for every 5 points the power effects. I don't see the need to create a hybrid of two existing mechanics for this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WhammeWhamme

Re: Oihid

 

In a way' date=' I could see building a version of HERO where all limitations were taken as Phys Lims and Psych Lims; it would be more transparent than the current system when you were figuring out how many points a character was "really" built on. It would also mean re-pricing a large number of powers, and redoing almost all published characters. Pain in the arse, especially with the addition of underwear stealing bad guys. ;)[/quote']

 

Some call me... Fuzion.

 

No, really. That's how they did it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

Eh. This is campaign and SFX dependant as well. As the GM, you still have a license to force the change back any time you'd like, or to cause problems for the character in his civilian ID, including blocking the change. And in anticipation of the question (;)), yes, I've done all three, and would expect to see all three done if I played such a character. Also, any HID can be destroyed, damaged or taken away, if that's what the GM wants to do.

 

If it's a problem (and I don't see why it would be with good players), you can always allow a Dispell vs. All Magic to force the change back as a 0 point limit built into a magical OIHID, or rule that the character changes back when unconcious, or rule that the character changes back when stunned.

 

As an example of the last, my wife had a character way back in 3rd Ed. who changed into Hero Id by mixing Instant Change, Growth, and Density Increase. When unconcius it would change back from being a Giant Robot to a twelve year old boy. Worked fine, and I'd have no trouble approving that character today built with OIHID.

 

The point being, none of this is beyond the GMs ability to balance with very little effort.

 

 

If you did the non-persistent OIHID, the character couldn't maintain a secret ID. :sneaky:

 

If the GM is willing to work at it, he can make anything balanced. At a certain point though, I notice "limitation burnout", where you have 6 characters all with 150 pts of Disads and hundreds of points of powers with some sort of limitations. It's almost impossible for a GM to exploit those limitations to an appropriate degree. In practice, a lot of stuff slides through.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

That's what the present limitation does - you get 1 point for every 5 points the power effects. I don't see the need to create a hybrid of two existing mechanics for this.

 

 

Except that the 1 for 5 you get back directly increases the power level of the character. He's now a 425 pt character in a 350 campaign.

 

As a Disad, he's a 350 pt character in a 350 campaign. Big difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

If you did the non-persistent OIHID' date=' the character couldn't maintain a secret ID. :sneaky:.[/quote']

 

Which is how it worked out with my wife's giant robot. :)

 

If the GM is willing to work at it, he can make anything balanced. At a certain point though, I notice "limitation burnout", where you have 6 characters all with 150 pts of Disads and hundreds of points of powers with some sort of limitations. It's almost impossible for a GM to exploit those limitations to an appropriate degree. In practice, a lot of stuff slides through.

 

I agree here. You always have to look at all of the characters in a game carefully before play starts, and forbid frameworks, limits and disads that are just going to be too much hassle to work with.

 

I don't see OIHID as too much hassle, but I wouldn't worry about it if a GM asked me not to use it in his game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WhammeWhamme

Re: Oihid

 

"At least once" means that some had it happen only once. And having it happen only once in your entire gaming career isn't worth an overall -1/4 limitation.

 

Do all your adventuring scenarios have only one combat? In many scenarios, there are a series of combats. You may use up 5 charges in one combat, 3 in the next, and 4 in the third. Often the GM sets up situations where you can't reload and recharge. The 12 charges are a lot more of a limitation than something that crops up once in an entire adventuring career.

 

So, because the GMs you've played with would rather penalize "Charges" than "Only in Hero ID", you think "Only in Hero ID" is broken?

 

Both of them require scenario design to be 'worth the points' as a limitation. It takes _more_ effort to make Charges limiting than OIHID. You actually have to plan out extra battles, and play through them. OIHID, just start the scenario with their pants down, in public, and watch them scramble to get into the fight...

 

...and if you don't do that, then they definately aren't OIHID characters in the Classic mold.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

How about on everything apart from his defenses? Or even on part of his defenses? (Which WAS what was suggested 'use the 60 pts saved to buy extra defenses...')

 

(Or, do what I did for my latest 250 Mentalist - 'Activation 14-, Only to Activate' (-1/4) on the Constant Powers)

 

 

That is illegal for Activation roll which must be rolled every phase even for constant powers. Otherwise, that would be extremely abusive (Act 8- on Armor at the beginning of each day for a -1 limitation).

 

 

It also makes their characters _boring_. Disadavantages are the spice. Anything that reduces the Disadvantages (/incentivizes it) is boring. Yes, the limitations system may slightly favour Limited Powers... but that's because they're more interesting.

 

"I use my EB" (yawn)

"Right... I hit the button on my headset to unleash my Eyebeams... what? It's jammed? @#$%!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

 

Why would it make the character boring? The fact that the character spends part of his time as a normal is just as legitimate and interesting as a hunted or a psych lim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

So, because the GMs you've played with would rather penalize "Charges" than "Only in Hero ID", you think "Only in Hero ID" is broken?

 

Both of them require scenario design to be 'worth the points' as a limitation. It takes _more_ effort to make Charges limiting than OIHID. You actually have to plan out extra battles, and play through them. OIHID, just start the scenario with their pants down, in public, and watch them scramble to get into the fight...

 

...and if you don't do that, then they definately aren't OIHID characters in the Classic mold.

 

 

How difficult is it to throw out a dozen agents here or there? Or have the villain team run off while losing after the first fight?

 

You never had 3 or 4 part adventures within a single day before?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

I think (and I certainly could be wrong) that Gary is making an argument against differing power levels of otherwise equal point characters in the spirit of fairness to players.

 

Interrestingly, there was a thread not too long ago that took the completely opposite tack:

 

Thor and Falcon on the same team: Balancing power levels without all being the same

 

and a followup thread:

 

Mixed Power-Level Campaign Update

 

I think if we combine the concepts discussed in the above 2 threads with this one (OIHID) we end up solving both sets of perceived problems. If a character is getting more power due to some type of points savings like OIHID, IIF, never in magnetic fields etc.. he should probably have to face opponents based on his Active Points instead of Real Points.

 

HM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WhammeWhamme

Re: Oihid

 

That is illegal for Activation roll which must be rolled every phase even for constant powers. Otherwise' date=' that would be [b']extremely[/b] abusive (Act 8- on Armor at the beginning of each day for a -1 limitation).

[/Quote]

 

It costs END to maintain. Therefore, no.

 

In general, yes. But you can still buy defenses _without_ activation... which is probably what OIHID man should do anyway. (to avoid the whole 'and KO!')

 

Why would it make the character boring? The fact that the character spends part of his time as a normal is just as legitimate and interesting as a hunted or a psych lim.

 

It is NOT, however, as interesting as a full 50pt personality, or a An Evil Twin (15pts), a Government Agency Watching You (15pts) AND having pissed off VIPER (20pts).

 

Oh... and spending part of your time 'acting as a normal' would be the Secret ID limitation. OIHID is just the bit where they really ARE a normal...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

While I agree that there are media differences (books and movies/TV have the same problem translating), when the goal of the RPG is to simulate the comics, it seems appropriate to endeavour to minimize those differences.

 

 

 

Peter/Spidey can:

 

(a) Sense the danger of the sniper taking aim on him.

 

(B) Turn down an alley to change clothes

 

© "Trip" and fall to the ground when his danger sense spikes, as the sniper shoots before he gets there.

 

If he had OIHID, he'd be shot before he knew what hit him. That doesn't have to mean "transform head to fine red mist". It could mean "captured by tranqs" or "infected with strange toxin and blackmailed for his life".

 

Note that it doesn't matter whether he could have aborted to change into his hero ID - he had no reason to do so.

 

Another example: Peter's with a reporter from the Bugle. They want to get into an office, but it's locked. The occupant's native language is sanskrit - Petercan't read it, but the reporter can. Coming back as Spidey won't work for this reason. Ah, but Peter twists the knob hard with his Spider-strength. "Hey, it was just stuck!" If his STR was OIHID, he lacks that opportunity.

 

If we were talking about giving characters the ability to avoid these annoyances for free, you'd tell us how unfair that is - they should pay points for the advantage. However, because here it's a rebate of points for sacrificing the advantage, you want to cap the rebate.

 

 

I agree that not being able to do some of this stuff in normal ID is worth something. Which is why the player would get points for a quasi-physical limitation. I don't agree that these nuisances are worth 50+ pts back on a character.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

I think (and I certainly could be wrong) that Gary is making an argument against differing power levels of otherwise equal point characters in the spirit of fairness to players.

 

Eh. With respect to Gary, this is the same problem you get with any limitation or disad that isn't self-activating. I've been in games where the Thor clone never loses his mighty OAF hammer/sword/gun, the Iron Man clone never loses his Armor, the Zatana clone never gets gagged, etc. I don't mind forbiding these limits in a given campaign, but they are not broken from a mechanics point of view.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WhammeWhamme

Re: Oihid

 

How difficult is it to throw out a dozen agents here or there? Or have the villain team run off while losing after the first fight?

 

You never had 3 or 4 part adventures within a single day before?

 

No, I really haven't. Because there's no need.

 

Now, if someone was relying on charges, then there's a need. If someone is relying on OIHID, then you need 'off the cuff battles'.

 

There is nothing wrong with 'only one comabt sessions' all the time, or 'all "we hunt them down" sessions', in and of themselves. However, when someone has taken power limitations, that aren't limiting because the GM has decided to toss an assumption of the game out the window...

 

...it's NOT the fault of the game design. D&D parties with no magic items are also completely unbalanced vs their usual CR. That is not the fault of D&D either...

 

Or, to stay in Hero... If you say "14- rolls are automatic successes", be prepared for a ton of 14- based characters.

 

Sheesh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WhammeWhamme

Re: Oihid

 

In your campaigns, do you find that most characters transform near combat, or do lots of them already start in hero ID at the start of combat?

 

Also with activation rolls, it's per shot. So if you take 10 shots during an average scenario, you have a roughly 50% chance of it activating. So the activation roll affects you half the time, not 5% like OIHID.

 

(repost)

 

I've only ever had one OIHID player... (This is probably a coincidence)

He transforms _in_ combat, sometimes. (Werewolf, part of a power pool)

Before? No.

 

Edit: Not that changing before combat fits OIHID. If someone was to usually start transformed... well... no go. OIHID implies a not-HID. That means that you should usually not be in HID. If you want OIHID with no 'pants down', no 'not-HID'.... then, similiar to the battlesuit guy with the 'invincible OIF'... you get downgraded by -1/4.

 

10 shots is quite a lot, btw.

 

-Activation on ALL your powers is likely to come up more frequently than OIHID considered that way. But only piecemeal. You won't be stuck at crap CV, DEF _and_ with no attack power. More to the point, with Activation, there's no sense of 'play round it'. If it happens, it happens. So it needn't affect play style that much.

 

OIHID also has a little bit of 'Noisy' wrapped up into it... no stealthy 'I use my powers through my glasses' for you!

 

It should come up every scenario, one way or another. Failing to activate is just part of that, of course... maybe sometimes it would be nifty to do stuff secret ID, maybe you just need to blow a phase transforming... or (see below)

 

 

Also, OIHID usually implies 'I can steal your powers!' plots are a little easier. After all, if you can 'turn it off'...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

No, I really haven't. Because there's no need.

 

Now, if someone was relying on charges, then there's a need. If someone is relying on OIHID, then you need 'off the cuff battles'.

 

There is nothing wrong with 'only one comabt sessions' all the time, or 'all "we hunt them down" sessions', in and of themselves. However, when someone has taken power limitations, that aren't limiting because the GM has decided to toss an assumption of the game out the window...

 

...it's NOT the fault of the game design. D&D parties with no magic items are also completely unbalanced vs their usual CR. That is not the fault of D&D either...

Or, to stay in Hero... If you say "14- rolls are automatic successes", be prepared for a ton of 14- based characters.

 

Sheesh.

You beat me too this.

 

Just to add. A 6th level fighter with magic blade and armor just might beat a 10th level fighter depending on how powerful the magic items are. The 6th level fighter knows this. He also knows he's screwed if he loses his magic items since he doesn't have all the other extra's that TRUE higher level in D&D gives like hit points!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

It costs END to maintain. Therefore, no.

 

In general, yes. But you can still buy defenses _without_ activation... which is probably what OIHID man should do anyway. (to avoid the whole 'and KO!')

 

 

The activation rules still clearly state that they must be rolled each phase for constant powers.

 

 

It is NOT, however, as interesting as a full 50pt personality, or a An Evil Twin (15pts), a Government Agency Watching You (15pts) AND having pissed off VIPER (20pts).

 

Oh... and spending part of your time 'acting as a normal' would be the Secret ID limitation. OIHID is just the bit where they really ARE a normal...

 

 

That's 100 pts of Disads. Dovetails nicely with the 50 you would get for OIHID. I just don't see how OIHID would be less interesting than having no legs or being blind, other legitimate physical limitations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

No, I really haven't. Because there's no need.

 

Now, if someone was relying on charges, then there's a need. If someone is relying on OIHID, then you need 'off the cuff battles'.

 

There is nothing wrong with 'only one comabt sessions' all the time, or 'all "we hunt them down" sessions', in and of themselves. However, when someone has taken power limitations, that aren't limiting because the GM has decided to toss an assumption of the game out the window...

 

...it's NOT the fault of the game design. D&D parties with no magic items are also completely unbalanced vs their usual CR. That is not the fault of D&D either...

 

Or, to stay in Hero... If you say "14- rolls are automatic successes", be prepared for a ton of 14- based characters.

 

Sheesh.

 

 

You consider a multipart scenario to be tossing the assumptions of the game out the window? You've never ran a multi-session scenario before?

 

Multisession scenarios are a staple of Hero gaming.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Oihid

 

I think (and I certainly could be wrong) that Gary is making an argument against differing power levels of otherwise equal point characters in the spirit of fairness to players.

 

Yeah, it gets to one of my philosophies. If the majority of players want to play 450 pt characters in a 350 pt world, it's more honest to just give everyone an extra 100 pts each. If only one or two want to, while the majority want to play a 350, then we have a problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest WhammeWhamme

Re: Oihid

 

The activation rules still clearly state that they must be rolled each phase for constant powers.

[/Quote]

 

It was a custom modifier. About which the rules specify little.

Does this quibble relate in any way to the suggested fix of Taking defenses with no limitations on them?

 

That's 100 pts of Disads. Dovetails nicely with the 50 you would get for OIHID. I just don't see how OIHID would be less interesting than having no legs or being blind, other legitimate physical limitations.

 

50pts pf OIHID?

 

To be 'worth' 50 points as a Disadvantage, it would have to be equivalent to 50 points of Physical Limitations in being interesting...

 

10 Albinism

20 Blind

5 Low Body Temperature

15 One Arm

 

Equivalency? Your Captain Marvel Clone is equally interesting as the Blind One Armed Cold Blooded Albino?

 

It's either a -1/4 lim, or 15-20pt disadvantage. 50pt Disadvantage is too high...

 

...and it's not because it's not worth 50 points. It's because disadvantages, inverted into powers, would mostly be worth more than they cost. (Anti-Hunted costs a lot more than Hunted, for example...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...