Combat initiative and the Speed Chart

[Fitz]

I've never been terribly fond of the Speed Chart and the mechanical effect it has on combat. Its only advantage, to my mind, is that it guarantees that a combatant with SPD 4 acts exactly twice as often as one with SPD 2. The big problem with it is that it encourages the sort of metagaming mindset which allows players to pre-plan their combats, to the grave detriment of the feeling of fast-moving chaotic excitement which combat should have.

 

I've tried a couple of ways to get around this, to make combat less rigidly structured without doing away with the SPD system altogether.

 

The first variation: Random Segment Determination , in which a d12 is rolled and those characters with SPD appropriate to act on that segment, or those holding an action, can act. This system was what I'd describe as a miserable failure -- it slowed everything down rtaher than speeding it up, and keeping track of passing time was a real pain in the bum.

 

Second Variation: Random Phase Determination , in which a die is rolled each Phase of combat. Everyone with a SPD equal to or greater than the number shown, or those holding an action, get to act. When the die shows a 1, everyone acts, the Turn ends and they get their post-12 recoveries. This system was a qualified success, since it did speed things up and it was easy to tell who could and could not act in any given phase. Where it fell down was in the ratio of actions between combatants; because combats seldom go on for any great length of time (that is, the number of individual Phases is small), it's easy for low-SPD or even moderate-SPD characters to be left out entirely simply because of a run of high Phase-Determination Rolls. Over time, of course, the ratio of actions will inevitable stabilize, but who remembers how many times they got to clobber something in a session three weeks ago?

 

Third Variation: Randomised SPD Bonus/Penalty : This is the system we're currently trialling. At the beginning of combat, everyone throws 1d6. A result of 1 means that character has -1 SPD (for that combat only), a 6 grants +1 SPD, and any other result indicates no change. Otherwise, the Speed Chart is used as per the published rules. This system has the virtue of simplicity, the down-side being that players have to keep track of which Phases they act on for 3 different SPDs -- their normal SPD, and one either side. We haven't play=tested this system for long enough to show whether it's practical or not, but I have an uneasy feeling lurking down deep that it won't really serve the purpose terribly well.

 

Does anyone have any ideas any other kind of combat initiative system which fulfills the following criteria?

 

1) It must be very, very simple.

2) It must grant screen time appropriate to the character's SPD

3) It must be variable enough to provide a degree of uncertainty about exactly who gets to act exactly when

4) It must not change the system to the extent of removing or distorting the SPD mechanism completely

5) It must be simple. I mean it.

[Yog Sothoth]

D12

 

Not a big idea but here it goes.

 

Instead of starting combat on segment 12 as per the rules, roll a D12, and the results indicates in which segment the combat starts. It gives a small element of uncertainty, and is simple enough I think

[Lord Liaden]

Although I personally love the Speed Chart because it allows the GM to keep track of who does what when, I've been part of groups who hated its predictability. One such group experimented with a suggestion from Steve Perrin in his "GM's Discretion" column from Adventurers Club #21. The results were pretty satisfactory.

 

It's essentially a variation on your Second Variation: each player rolls a D12 at the start of a Phase, and if he rolls his SPD or less he gets to act that Phase. Having each player roll allows for an adjustment to compensate for the "player left out due to streak of bad rolls" problem that you experienced; each player who misses a roll adds 1 to his subsequent rolls, cumulatively, until he succeeds, when the roll resets to his raw SPD again.

 

Another of Steve Perrin's suggestions (which we never got around to trying) was to ignore Post-Segment 12 - anyone who rolls a 12 gets to take a Recovery and perform any other Post-12 actions.

 

Hope that's useful.

[DarkGreen]

Neat thread. I hope a good answer come's up!

 

Yog's idea is pretty cool and simple. It doesn't require the players to do anything.

 

-DG

[Fitz]

Hmmmm...... I think I like Lord Liarden's suggestion. (OK, Steve Perrin's suggestion). In fact, I think I'll try it. At least having the players roll their own dice might get them off my back about my stupendously high rolls all the time, and the cumulative +1 should help guarantee everybody some part in the action. Thanks

[Nelijal]

I like the Lord Liarden/Steve Perrin idea as well. And if you want to be a HERO purist, roll a d6 and take the segments in pairs. That would also be slightly faster, I believe.

[Guest Keneton]

I'm not trying to change your mind on the speed thing, but I don't really understand your whole metagaming argument. This isn't "magic the gathering" and speed determines nothing but how many phases you have. With the ability to hold, Speed adds quite a bit of exciting tactics to a game.

 

I love if players have to worry about setting for a haymaker on the 6th because Joe Speedy might be a 7 speed, or how Psiren, my mentalist will often abort her 3rd against a 6 speed villain in the 2nd to kill their speed advantage.

 

The other methods, although fun sounding, kill tactics. Why are tactics bad? This sounds a lot like the discussion I just had on "To hex or Not" on these same boards.

 

I connot see how the Speed Chart combined with the ability to holds ever leads to wht you called a pre planned combat. In fact I feel it leads to the exact opposite.

 

Maybe you can explain your thoughts on why the Speed Chart Leads to Metagaming. I don't think you are using the term correctly.

[Blackout]

Predictability... or not

 

I think what you're calling predictability is actually a neat way to demonstrate a character's grasp of tactics and their ability to "size up" their opponents.

 

Of course, you can always throw your players a curve, and have some creatures they encounter start of by holding an action and acting on a different phase than they "should".

 

If you want to abandon the speed chart, though, one thing that worked for us was to take cards numbered 1 through 12, shuffle them, and flip one at a time. Next turn, do the same thing. Much quicker than rolling dice.

[Lord Liaden]

Not to sound defensive, but it's "Lord Liaden", not "Liarden". I never got too upset with people calling me "Lord Laiden", but the connotations of this one are rather less flattering.

 

And I'm glad you like the idea, Fitz.

[Old Man]

The next time I GM a FH campaign, I'm just going to dispense with the speed stat altogether. A difference of 1 point of SPD is just a ridiculously huge advantage down in the 2-4 range. For example, I'm SPD 4 and you're SPD 3. I am effectively +3 DCV because I'm going to spend your three phases dodging. What do you do?

 

Conversely I never had a problem with the non-random dex order. Rolling for initiative just sucked in every game I've played that had it. FH has always had the block, and now there's the two dex-pushing maneuvers too. If anything I'd use a small die modifier to dex, if the players demanded some initiative randomness--probably a +1d6 -1d6 roll, giving a range of +/- 5 with a curve.

[Nelijal]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Not to sound defensive, but it's "Lord Liaden", not "Liarden". I never got too upset with people calling me "Lord Laiden", but the connotations of this one are rather less flattering.

 

And I'm glad you like the idea, Fitz.

My apologies. I double-checked the previous posts to make sure I was spelling it correctly, but I copied the previous misspelling.

[KawangaKid]

Pseudo-Counterpoint

 

On the other hand, a couple of players new to the HERO system (narrative-system folks familiar with White Wolf & L5R) LOVED the HERO speed table.

 

The said it REALLY drives home the effect of someone who moves faster than you by forcing you. You're forced to take defensive actions, or to wait helplessly and hope that you're not the one attacked...

 

The chaos of combat can still be reflected by requiring perception rolls to keep track of folks that fall out of your field of view. Otherwise, you suffer OCV / DCV penalties against them.

 

Alternately, you could just use the SPD stat as the number of actions per turn, and go in order of DEX, one action per.

[Markdoc]

I agree totally with Fitz. I've also experimented with a variety of systems from "by the book speed chart" to "no SPD stat."

 

The metagaming argument is solid - the problem is not that "player X is worried about throwing a haymaker, and hopes their opponent doesn't go on the next phase".

 

It's player X throwing a haymaker KNOWING their opponent can't retaliate in time.

 

It's players who go "I'll delay a phase and then jump into their middle and sweep with all my levels on OCV, 'cos I get to go the phase after that, so that if I miss any of them I can abort to block or dodge and shift my levels even if they have higher DEX than I do, and then the phase after that, I'll change to..."

 

That's not tactics, that's long range strategy and it has no place in my FH game world B-(

 

Some players like this wargamey aspect to things, and I'll hang my head in shame and admit that I have manipulated the SPD chart with the best (worst) of them - so if that winds your dial, fine. For 4 colour comics, it's even appropriate. For Fantasy Hero where most people fall into the 2-4 SPD range, it can get ugly and to me (and my players) it detracts from the all-important "fantasy ambiance".

 

Combat *should* be messy and chaotic (at least that's my experience), but randomising the SPD chart does not remove the element of tactics, it merely reduces the element of certainty - in effect, my players WAIT for those fleeting moments when they can sweep or haymaker, in the hope that they can get away with it unscathed. They don't plan them weeks in advance, knowing that they will occur.

 

Personally I couldn't go back to SPD chart now and the threat of doing so effectively silenced the players who whined about me reolling a string of 1 and 2's so the lowlifes all got a chance to act every phase.

 

The other suggestions, while worthy (like try getting people to hold actions to go outside their normal phases) should be part of every GM's trick book - but they a) only address part of the problem and load even more work on the GM - no fun when the players are trying to beat off the attacks of 25 sprites (SPD4) riding giant wasps (SPD2) and the GM is trying to keep track of the lot.

 

Getting players to make PER rolls is also a good idea (I use when someone is trying to circle around to take a target by surprise, but in general, Hero system combat needs extra rolls like it needs furry dice.

 

Last of all, the "No SPD" option was tried by a fellow GM in a game I played in. The result was dreadful. Dull, limited combat (plus it messes with the balance around END and charges something 'orrible, and alters the balance of characteristics - DEX becomes even more important, since it is the sole determinant of when you act) and the only real benefit was that all the people involved swore a solemn oath never to do it again.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have a pefect answer. I use the random phase method (Fitz's #2) as it is the easiest and least bad of the options, but that's only 'cos I can't come up with anything better.

 

cheers, Mark

[Legendsmiths]

We actually do a couple of things that may help, although we use the stock speed chart. Here goes:

 

1. No post-segment 12 recovery. Ever. If you want to recover, you take a Recovery and put yourself at a disadvantage. This forces players to move to the safety of cover so they can get back END/Stun.

 

2. No END for a basic action. Strike, Move, etc. cost no END. Extraordinary actions cost END, such as Sweeps (pay END for the additional attacks), and aborts (1 + ENC level in END). The aborts rule helps encourage the held action, and captures the "oh my god I've gotta get outta here" feel. The no END for basic actions simplifies bookkeeping, forcing you to track END only for extraordinary things (like pushing). This of course also balances the lack of a free recovery in #1.

 

3. Dive for Cover. I posted a rules question on the old boards and got an answer from Steve I didn't expect, but it works awesome. You can DfC vs. melee attacks. This especially fun against Haymakers which land at the end of the next segment, so your target can always abort. Last session I had an angry dwarf chasing his foe across the room with haymakers as the foe kept aborting to DfC. They were the same speed. This is also great for Mages or other physically weak characters (DEX-1 gets you out of harms way), and allows someone to step in to keep the baddies busy. DfC has the drawback that you are prone (1/2 DCV) until your next action, but you do get totally out of the way. They don't even get an attack roll and the DEX roll is not opposed.

 

4. No hit locations for thugs (x3 STUNx always), unless they make a called shot. This really helps move things along when battling a mass of gobbos or such.

 

We've played with these mods in 2 campaigns, one was a cyber-arcane-horror game and the current fantasy game. Hero combat moves very quickly. I recommend them highly, especially the END for aborts thing as it really encourages the held actions, which avoids the stock rigidness of the SPD chart.

 

Compared to other systems where either multiple attacks are too difficult to handle mechanically (RoleMaster) or too deadly (GURPS) or too disjointed (D&D... my turn, I use Improved Trip and follow up with 4 attacks), it allows for fighters with multiple attacks spread evenly throughout the turn.

 

Once the p-s 12 recovery is gone, we really ignore the "end of turn" scenario, and pretty much just play a string of segments.

 

If you wanted to mix up your combat starting point, of the combatants who are not surprised have them make DEX rolls. The best roll chooses which phase to begin the combat in. I haven't tried this, but it might be interesting.

[Guest Keneton]

If the game is too hard for you play D&D!

 

So tired of this stinks because of tactics or this stinks because you know you can get away with it. Well someone messed up if you get to plan sweeps, so guess what "too bad for the baddies!"

 

No post 12, when do you adjust for Regeneration, Recovery from Drains, or even when a person is barely out. In your sytem they just lie there and look dumb on the ground. That is not heroic.

 

No END? Its bad enough no Speed. I say if you can't handle the sytem play Toon or Amber or some other schmuk sytem that doesn't require thinking.

 

All of the answers given to this supposed problem only detract from the game. The problem does not go away with Random phases at all. If I have High Dex and hold until late in a phase and sweep you, under the random phase sytem I am likely to be out of my sweep and get to go again defensiveliy before you even get a chance to hit back. You've not solved anything, infact you've doubled your problems. Sure I may not get away with it, but hey that stinks too.

 

Chatrang (Ancient Indian version of Chess) started out wih dice determining what piece you had to move. Randomness over Strategy. You think this is bad?! I prefer hinking over chaos. Heroes rise above the chaos and make combat their own. They triumph over odds. The fight smarter than the orc hoardes that they face. Sure reduce them to nothing and feel superior! This cofee house intellectualism leads to a real boring non-heroic game.

 

I'm 34 and have been in gaming and game design for 22 years. Innovation and discussions like this are good. I am not flaming anyone and hope no one gets offended by my post. I believe the gaming segemt to be a very bright and responsive group. All I ask of you is before proposing a solution, look at the new problems it creates. Ask yourself, "Will the characters still be heroic under my system?"

 

As for the argumanet about the differance between a 2 and 3 speed beng so great-Phooey! Only if there is a sizeable differance in where the other 10 points went, particularly with CV. A difference of 1 is generally not too devestating when it comes to speed. Real advantages are in 2 Speed difference.

 

2-4

3-5

6-8

 

The 6 to 8 Speed differance is extremly bad as an 8 Speed goes 2,3 5,6 to the 6 Speed 2,4,6. The Extra early turn phase is back breaking and generally decides a fight. The 6-7 difference is minimanl early turnas teh extra phase is negated by a Phase 6 abort.

 

Well glad I got that out!!

[Xiawarr]

Fitz,

I actually posted a solution on the old boards, but caught some flack from those that love the speed chart.

 

I have played the original Deadlands system (not the D20 version), in which a regular deck of cards was used to determine actions. I adapted that for my Hero games and it has run quite well.

 

Deal out cards based on the SPD characteristic to each player and NPC. In cases of multiple people pulling the same card with a different suit, first check DEX to determine who goes first. Otherwise, use the Deadland system (e.g. Spades, Hearts, Diamonds, Clubs in order).

 

I found that it worked very well. Especially when you are gaming with large groups of players. It adds just the right amount of randomness, without limiting those who have paid for higher SPD values.

 

I hope you find it useful.

[DarkGreen]

Xiawarr- I am not familiar with the deadlands system. Once you deal cards is it just high card first? Sounds like a mess with 4 players.

 

Everyone - Another way to mitigate what you may see as "metagaming" is that you can institute a house rule that if someone wants to hold their phase to another segment then they need a tactics roll. The tactics roll is made at the end of their actual phase going into the next segment and if they fail it then they're only holding a half action. That should at least require that only the characters who are "tactical experts" can do such things, and occasionally it will backfire even for them.

 

-DG

[EternityShard]

Originally posted by DarkGreen

I am not familiar with the deadlands system. Once you deal cards is it just high card first? Sounds like a mess with 4 players.

 

THree months ago, I'd have rated Deadlands as the best system out there... then I discovered Hero.

 

Regardless, the way deadlands works is everyone rolls a Quickness stat, and gets a certain number of actions based on the result. The Marshal (GM) then deals out to each player the appropriate number of cards. Then the GM counts down from Ace to Two. Jokers are used. A Red Joker can go at any time during the round, without needing rolls to interrupt another character's action, or first, if the player so chooses. The black joker is tossed back in the pile along with that player's highest other card.

 

If two players have the same rank card, Suit determines the tie-breaker (Spades, hearts, diamonds, club). The Good Guys have one deck of cards, and the bad guys have another deck. The only difference is that the bad-guys deck's jokers' effects are reversed.

 

The best thing about the Deadlands system is how much it feels western. Obviously the use of Decks of cards and poker chips adds to that.

 

Anyways, to convert this to Hero, I'd eliminate any sort of roll to determine number of actions, and just use straight speed stats for the number of cards you get.

[Legendsmiths]

Step off Keneton. You make a lot of presumptions in your rebuttal of my suggestions. So, in the interest of understanding, let me explain:)

 

1. I never said to get rid of SPD. SPD still exists and is still used.

 

2. Post-Segment 12. Please, make a logical extension. Regens, drains, etc. all work as normal. In that sense the ps12 still exists, you just get no recovery.

 

3a. I never said get rid of END, just don't use it for basic actions. This came out of a discussion based on guns in combat. If I half-move and fire my gun I will spend (as a normal) most likely 1 END for movement. If I have a SPD of 4, and a REC of 4 (average), the END for the turn is a wash. So, why track it? It's wasted bookkeeping that slows the game down. Yet at the same time I don't want to lose the fact that you are spending END, therefore it makes sense to have the REC and END cancel each other out.

 

3b. Now, STUN. Here I was actually going for an action movie feel. With the elimnation of the ps12 REC, you can now run out of STUN much more quickly unless you take REC during combat.

 

This system ends up being very heroic, fast, and fun. I too have been gaming a while, and am a long time Hero gamer. I am very familiar with the system, and I know this is a fun way to play the game. After 2 campaigns, my players would agree.

 

The tag line on the rulebook is "The Gamer's Toolkit", not "The Gamer's Bible". Hero is a framework meant to be extended to create the atmosphere you want to acheive, not to accept the rules as canon and TOTW (The One True Way).

 

I would sling your condemnation right back at you and say that if you can't deal with the idea of rules extensions and modifications, that you take FRED, crawl into a hole, and ignore all other game mechanics as inferior.

 

The rest of us would like to continue our discussion of the merits and options of initiative/speed systems, and what works for us.

 

Thanks for your support.

[Legendsmiths]

I think the Deadlands initiative system would map very well to Hero. Using SPD to determine your cards, essentially you have the same thing as the SPD chart, just that the sequence is all jumbled.

 

NICE.

 

I haven't experienced much of the metagaming aspects of the SPD chart so it has never really upset me.

 

Fundamentally, any random system you introduce ultimately normalizes on the speed chart (for the most part), so why bother. Unless you introduce a system which combines the randomness with sequencing as well as tracking (i.e. cards), it might just be more effort than it is worth.

 

I don't see held actions as that much of a problem. Sure you can delay, but unless you are going to defend, you've given up the ability to do full phase actions plus you have to win a contest of DEX. If you want to introduce tactics, I would suggest you use that instead of DEX, and make tactics an everyman skill. That way fighters will have it, most will not, and many of your rolls will be 11- v. 8-. But if you are going to do THAT, why not make a talent called "Master Warrior" that lets you win all such contests unless the other person is a Master as well. Does Lightning Reflexes add to DEX rolls for purposes of this? Perhaps you might allow it.

[Guest Keneton]

You said no recovery, now you've clarified. I'm cool given that.

 

You think you should spend end one way, but not another and this saves time how?

 

Did you read the part that this wasn't a flame before you told me to step off or are you just offended that you had to clarify?

 

I never said Hero was the only way, Check other posts, and read my writing including DH#3. I am very open to suggestions. Before you clarified, yours did not work.

 

I didn't attack you, I attacked an idea. How do people in your syrtem recover when at -2 Stun for example. Without a post 12 when do they recover? With no post 12 how about at -11. Is there a distinction under your sytem of -11 or -1 for example. Eliminating post 12 elimintates this distiction, unless you came up with another sytem for this as well.

 

Can you see that with all of these exceptions you have created something for nothing. The problem is not as bad as the solution.

 

Maybe you have a great idea. I've not heard all of it yet. I can only critique what you type. Before you Flame, you should explain.

 

Imagine you are in my shoes. How would I know if you had all of this worked out. I still don't think you do. Answer the above questions without malice and we can still discuss this.

 

Regarding Speed, I never said you in particular voiced ridding Speed, I was speaking in general to the thread. Sorry if you thought this was directed at you. I should have been more clear.

 

I play other games as well as Hero, but right now of published sytems I do feel Hero is the best. I dont begrudge people making house rules (I have a 20+ page house rules document), but I do wonder why change something semi complicated and make it even more complicated.

 

Roll two dice, if you pass "Go" collect 2 experiance points and a post 12 recovery! Really re-read this thread and see what you see. Eliminate speed, or replace it with die rolls or random draws of cards. This makes statistics probabilities. It turns Chess Into Backgammon.

 

I for one like thinking and I am not condemming people I am condemming IDEAS!

 

All I ask of the reader is to say, Hey I bet Bob is a nice guy. I don't agree with him, but I'm sure we'd get along. And that is fine with me.

[Legendsmiths]

We're all cool and the gang then.

 

I was more reacting to the following quote:

If the game is too hard for you play D&D!

 

So tired of this stinks because of tactics or this stinks because you know you can get away with it. Well someone messed up if you get to plan sweeps, so guess what "too bad for the baddies!"

and

No END? Its bad enough no Speed. I say if you can't handle the sytem play Toon or Amber or some other schmuk sytem that doesn't require thinking.

 

Intentional flame or no, those quotes are pretty inflamatory, even when peppered with "Don't take offense". That just made you sound patronizing. More than a personal issue, I was also stepping up to say, "Hey, all of these ideas are valid, and belittleing people telling them to go play Toon, isn't very appropriate." Either participate in the conversation, don't participate, offer constructive criticisms, I don't care. But don't step in, tell someone not only are their ideas half-baked but that if they can't deal with the complexities of Hero to ship off. A discussion of the point may bring people around to realize the system works fine as is, but beating them with the book isn't the way to do that. I'm being honest when I say that there is no malice in my posting here, but I think it is important that ideas, good or bad, are not quashed.

 

You then launched into a critique of my suggestion. I was taking a minimalist approach in my post, and assumed I would not need to post things like -1 STUN and -11 STUN are unchanged, etc. I only posted what I had changed from the stock rules.

 

I think at this point if you want to discuss my response to my perception of your post as a flame, feel free to email me directly.

 

So, now let's dive into the particulars.

 

No free recovery for END & STUN post-seg 12. Also, no tracking of basic END (strike, move, etc.). This is only appropriate for a heroic game, not supers.

 

Combat can now move along without players or the GM having to track END for every sword swing and every bit of movement. This makes managing thugs much easier, as well as simplifies what players have to track. Now the only time players have to make note of END use is when they do something exceptional (pushing, sweeps, etc.), which is when play usually slows down a bit anyway.

 

Negative STUN effects are unchanged. My comment about a string of phases, one after the other, is how the system feels since as a GM I never say, "alright, everyone take a recovery". The combat just rolls along. There are still turns, and people still bleed, we just no longer have that metagaming pause.

 

The bottom line is this is a really minor tweak to the rules, that balances out overall. It doesn't complicate things because all of the other rules are still in place. The only concession is that STUN builds up more quickly, but overall this only slightly increases the lethality of the game, which is fine IMO since Hero is fairly, well, heroic.

 

I whole-heartedly agree with you that Hero is one of the finer systems out there. The flexibility is one of its strengths.

 

I also agree, as my prior post states, that randomization is probably a wash in the long run, and probably mixes things up unnecessarily. It can be fun, sure, but the end result is a more or less flat system.

 

Look at the D&D Initiative system. Everyone rolls a d20, with a variance of DEX bonus and maybe Improved Initiative. Once the combat begins, the initiative is static. I think the real issue is surprise, and how to handle it. I handle it by starting combat in segment 12, but require a PER roll by all potentially surprised targets (which could be everyone) to react. If they fail, they have to make an EGO roll, cumulative +1 per phase, before they can act. Additionally, they are considered Surprised and Out of Combat until the next turn begins.

 

Whew, I think that's it for now. Keneton and I have beat each other and this horse to a pulp. I apologize if I killed this thread, and hopefully I offered enough morsels the discussion can continue.

[Nelijal]

Originally posted by mudpyr8

A discussion of the point may bring people around to realize the system works fine as is, but beating them with the book isn't the way to do that.

Can we make an exception for GMs beating their players with the book? Sometimes, a good FREd bashing is just what the doctor ordered.

[Xiawarr]

Eternity Shard,

Thanks for clarifying my post! ) I really appreciate it. I love the Deadland settings as well, but always come back to Hero. I've been playing since 1st Edition Champions. I also use the poker chips in my Hero system (call them Karma points). There is nothing quite like tossing a poker chip to a player as a reward for a great idea, or good roleplaying. It's immediate gratification that you can hold onto!

 

mudpyr8,

Actually it works very well. I have used it with as few as four players and up to ten at the same time. I like the random element, without anyone losing any of their actions. It may not be for everyone, but it works for me and my player group.

[Legendsmiths]

Xiawarr: I used to use a fate system as well, modeled after Deadlands, but have since moved on to a card system.

 

Players start with 3 cards and earn 1 card per adventure (not session, or 1 card per 5 points more or less). Once spent, they are gone. They can use xp to buy cards, and can trade cards in for points. I award bonus cards for good rping, and agree with your view of that reward system.

 

The cards are bonuses to specific actions, and built off of a DH article and a Pyramid article. With a few exceptions (e.g. Free Reroll), all the cards are unique. If a player likes a card he gets and doesn't use it, he can keep it next session.

 

One card that is popular is "Dramatic Entrance/Exit", which maxes a PRE attack. Quite useful anytime but good in combat to cause the baddies to pause. I like the story opportunities the cards offer, and they still provide a little bit of an edge to help players survive.

 

Last adventure while facing a wormwraith (corpse animated by undead worms ala Princess Mononoke), a player used "That wasn't there before" to stumble over a vial of holy water (they were in an abandoned temple). He picked it up and unfortunately missed the wormwraith, hitting the dwarf in the head, breaking the vial. So, the card gave him a very useful tool but didn't ensure its effectiveness. Overall quite fun.