SuperPheemy Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Grade A Bang Bang The Model 500 weighs in at 4.5 pounds, and incorporates a number of recoil-reducing and shock-absorbing properties thoughout the weapon. I'm pretty sure it could be fired accurately one handed, and so long as you have a firm grip, won't break your arm. However, considering that this weapon is designed to be fired after careful aiming, you'd probably want to use a two handed, braced stance. That being said, I'm certain that there will be plenty of characters showing up in campaigns worldwide blazing away with a S&W Mod 500 in each hand. As to the grain/ delivered energy issue, the values of 440 grains and 2600 ft/lbs are taken from the HC Cast Performance round, the heaviest Cor-Bon offers in .500 Magnum. There are two other, lighter rounds available, which deliver correspondingly less energy to the target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted February 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 In that case what I would do is build it STR Min 8, 1-1/2 Handed, Real Weapon. That way you can use it with one hand if you are STR 10. I would also go so far as to give it a limitation -2 OCV if STR is less than 12 when shot one handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthson Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Bigger may not be better The Danger International rules list pistols firing rounds of similar caliber as 2d6 with a 14 STR Min and I would assume that this round would probably be in the same leauge. I've found "pepping" up some of the numbers listed in the books to be helpful for reducing the number of low powered NPC's that manage to shoot back in segment 6 and to make PC's respect a thug who has the jump on them, although I try and keep the range limits of handguns in mind too. Handgun loads have a big heavy bullet being pushed by not as much powder for a shorter period of time (down a shorter barrel). Its the weight of the slug that gives a large caliber handgun its knockdown ability not the diameter, but this also give a slug a lot of drag. A .50 cal machine gun bullet has a lot more powder in the cartridge and a considerably longer barrel (heavier slug too if memory serves correctly but this increase in weight is more than offset by the powder load) hence why a .50 machine gun bullet is listed as 3d6 (+1) and can carry for a mile or so (add a few skill levels to hit anything though). That 5 round cylinder comes from the fat rounds too. I'd be curious to see how much of the muzzle velocity is left after 50 hexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperPheemy Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Depends on the length of the barrel. I'm confident that the Model 500 could reach out and touch someone at a respectable distance with a 14" barrel. Of course it IS only a pistol. It only delivers about two thirds of the energy generated by a .30 Winchester Magnum round fired from a rifle. I'd lower some of the STR mins for modern handguns. Advances in materials and recoil-compensation since DI first hit the shelves have made big, heavy handguns surprisingly easy to shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperPheemy Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 A thought just occurred to me, I wonder how big of a Presence Attack bonus a character would get pointing a Model 500 with a 14" barrel at someone. I'm reminded of the movie "Dogma", "We call this model the fecolater, one look and the target shits himself." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by Old Man I've heard secondhand of a "hobbyist" out here who constructed a single-shot bolt-action .50 BMG pistol from scratch. From what I understand it performed reasonably well, although the muzzle flash was about as lethal as the round itself. The story goes that the BATF came down and asked him a couple of pointed questions, e.g. "That's the last gun you're going to build in that caliber, ever. Right?" I have no idea where he gets the ammo. I'm not sure of the legality of a pistol in that calibre off hand, but it's certainly nothing I ever want to fire... As a side note, .50BMG is available on the commercial market though it is probably special order in most places and I figure most people would seek it out at gun shows. There are a number of commercially produced rifles chambered for .50BMG, mostly for guys who want a REALLY big gun for plinking with.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnathanChance Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by Tom I'm not sure of the legality of a pistol in that calibre off hand, but it's certainly nothing I ever want to fire... As a side note, .50BMG is available on the commercial market though it is probably special order in most places and I figure most people would seek it out at gun shows. There are a number of commercially produced rifles chambered for .50BMG, mostly for guys who want a REALLY big gun for plinking with.... At last check a Barret M-82 .50BMG rifle was selling for about 3 grand. A note on the .475 Linebaugh, according to an article I read about a year ago in a reputable gun magazine, when this round first started seeing use in beg game hunting in Africa it was found to be able to put an African bull elephant down, permanently, with a single head shot. I know you might be thinking "Of course, they shot the elephant in the head!" But an elephant's skull is if I remember correctly about 6" thick. Supossedly after one such shot the hunter wanted to check where his bullet ended up and found it not in the skull but in about the fourth vertebrae. That is a lot of bone to punch through!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by Tom I'm not sure of the legality of a pistol in that calibre off hand, but it's certainly nothing I ever want to fire... As a side note, .50BMG is available on the commercial market though it is probably special order in most places and I figure most people would seek it out at gun shows. There are a number of commercially produced rifles chambered for .50BMG, mostly for guys who want a REALLY big gun for plinking with.... There wouldn't be anything illeagal about it in the US but I think it probably violates a few laws of nature As far as ammo, I think most people reload their own for .50 cal Browning. The ammo for the machineguns is not loaded to extreme tolerances since it is to be used in a machinegun. For target work a higher quality of ammo is desirable. You can easily buy the components through mail order gun supply shops. Its not cheap and few reloading presses can handle a round that size which is an extra cost since you need to buy a large press for it. Also I think the Barrett is up to $6,000 or so, it was $3,000 in the eighties before the rash of gun grabber policies under the Clinton administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnathanChance Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by Toadmaster There wouldn't be anything illeagal about it in the US but I think it probably violates a few laws of nature As far as ammo, I think most people reload their own for .50 cal Browning. The ammo for the machineguns is not loaded to extreme tolerances since it is to be used in a machinegun. For target work a higher quality of ammo is desirable. You can easily buy the components through mail order gun supply shops. Its not cheap and few reloading presses can handle a round that size which is an extra cost since you need to buy a large press for it. Also I think the Barrett is up to $6,000 or so, it was $3,000 in the eighties before the rash of gun grabber policies under the Clinton administration. Hmm.. I could have sworn that it was a Barrett for sale at the last gunshow, but maybe it was a different company's gun.. or maybe it was a well worn personal transfer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by JohnathanChance At last check a Barret M-82 .50BMG rifle was selling for about 3 grand. That's a pretty good deal. An H&K PSG-1 costs somewhere in the realm of 10-12K$, last time I saw it listed, which would have been over a year ago, maybe two. Supossedly after one such shot the hunter wanted to check where his bullet ended up and found it not in the skull but in about the fourth vertebrae. That is a lot of bone to punch through!! Um, how do you go about checking something like that? Did the guy just happen to have his chainsaw with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthson Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Campaign Use of "Big" guns One of the best in game uses I have for the .50 BMG, in a custom load with a FMJ (3d6+1 APRKA) round is in what is affectionately referred to as a "Wizard Killer" used to take our renegade mages. (I have a campaign rule that limits the rPD/rED in any cast magic) Heck, you have to make "Watched by Guild" mean something as a disadvantage. I had a GM that used a similar weapon as a device in a low power superhero game that tested a few 20 point "Code Against Killings." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by Old Man That's a pretty good deal. An H&K PSG-1 costs somewhere in the realm of 10-12K$, last time I saw it listed, which would have been over a year ago, maybe two. <...snip...> Last MSRP I saw on a PSG-1 was $10K, however, unless things have changed with the new administration, it is no longer legal to import it into the country (BATF ruled it to be an assualt weapon since it would accept the high capacity magazines of the German G-3 rifle). Keep in mind that this cost include a hard case, scope, and bunches of accessories. The Barret M-82A1 (last I looked a couple of years ago), ran in the $3K range for the base rifle and went up to something like $6K for the cased and scoped version. Toadmaster, I recall reading an article on handloading for the .50BMG quite a few years back (maybe up to 10 years ago, I really can't remember for sure), at that time there was only one comercially available press which was big enough to handle the cartridge. I can't recall who the manufacturer was, only that it was an "O-frame" press (if that helps any). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnathanChance Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by Old Man That's a pretty good deal. An H&K PSG-1 costs somewhere in the realm of 10-12K$, last time I saw it listed, which would have been over a year ago, maybe two. Um, how do you go about checking something like that? Did the guy just happen to have his chainsaw with him? I don't know, I just remember reading that in an article about the .475 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Squirrel Posted February 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 We need to do a twin study on this weapon. Take a known gun from the book. Shoot the first twin and record the damage. Take the new gun and shoot the other twin. Compare the damage and convert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 You know that wouldn't work. Have you seen the way gun hobbyists argue about kinetic energy and wound ballistics and energy transfer and hydrostatic shock? It makes the nastiest arguments here look like an episode of Teletubbies. There is no test in the world that will stop those debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthson Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 What about a body double test? I hear Saddam has all of these body doubles running around... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlHazred Posted February 20, 2003 Report Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by Super Squirrel We need to do a twin study on this weapon. Take a known gun from the book. Shoot the first twin and record the damage. Take the new gun and shoot the other twin. Compare the damage and convert. I hear the weapon is better than other .50 caliber weapons because it's a Magnum round. I want to know how they fit him in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Maybe it was used, or the single shot not the semi-auto? I think the .500 might actually qualify for 2.5 f6, +1 stun, but I think the .50 BMG should be 3d6 + 1 +1 stun or aP Something about 12000 ftlbs of energy... Originally posted by JohnathanChance Hmm.. I could have sworn that it was a Barrett for sale at the last gunshow, but maybe it was a different company's gun.. or maybe it was a well worn personal transfer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 21, 2003 Report Share Posted February 21, 2003 Originally posted by gewing Maybe it was used, or the single shot not the semi-auto? I think the .500 might actually qualify for 2.5 f6, +1 stun, but I think the .50 BMG should be 3d6 + 1 +1 stun or aP Something about 12000 ftlbs of energy... Well, back in 4th, the .50BMG did 3d6. I think the damage listed for it in FRED is a typo, because there's no way a .50BMG and a 7.62 NATO do the same damage. Time to invoke the Grandfather Clause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted February 22, 2003 Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 Check teh FAQ, Steve said he doesn't know how he mis-typed that, IIRC. Originally posted by Peregrine Well, back in 4th, the .50BMG did 3d6. I think the damage listed for it in FRED is a typo, because there's no way a .50BMG and a 7.62 NATO do the same damage. Time to invoke the Grandfather Clause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 22, 2003 Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 Originally posted by gewing Check teh FAQ, Steve said he doesn't know how he mis-typed that, IIRC. Which goes to show how carefully I didn't read the FAQ! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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