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How to Read the Firearms Table


Sociotard

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I was scathed second-hand on the boards the other day. A guy was expressing displeasure at gamers who just give their characters the most powerful weapons they can carry with their given strength, regardless of how well the gun fits the character.

 

I looked at my character sheet. A softspoken analyst character who dabbles in mystical arts . . . and carries a Glock 21 (2d6 RKA) with a Silencer/Flash Supressor and lazer sights. Okay, I've clearly done something out of character. The Silencer works (quiet man that doesnt draw attention to himself, quiet gun that doesn't draw attention to itself), but I still needed something less . . . austere.

 

Now, I really don't know much about guns. I look some of them up on google, but it's just faster if I can tell what a gun is like, and who it's appropriate for, by looking at it. My first thought was "Per roll, bigger scarier guns have a higher per roll, right?", So omiting the derringers (he isn't that much of a sissy, I hope), I get all the guns with a +1 roll, and that leads me to . . .

The Glock 21! Doh!

 

Well I'm stumped. without resorting to image searches, whats the best way to know what a gun is like? Str min? Cal? Dam?

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Str MIN is really an abstract way of showing how much STR it takes to control the weapons weight and recoil (thus a stronger character can handle a larger recoil without affecting their accuracy)

 

DAM is Hero's attempt to simulate the damage based on a given caliber/bullet type.

 

For this particular character I would go with just about any of the Automatic pistols except perhaps the Desert Eagle (it is truly a massive auto). To more effectively conceal your handgun, there are several places that sell specialty clothing woth hidden pockets designed to hold handguns comfortably, and essentialy invisibly, while keeping it close at hand.

 

The only concealability problem I see for your character is the silencer. Home made or private sector silencers are not only illegal (assuming your Hero has a concelaed weapon permit, silencer are still illegal), but most easily double the size of the weapon. There are some extremely compact silencers, and even weapons with integral built in silencers, however they are all very tightly controlled by the military/government and the construction and internal workings are classified.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Str MIN is really an abstract way of showing how much STR it takes to control the weapons weight and recoil (thus a stronger character can handle a larger recoil without affecting their accuracy)

 

DAM is Hero's attempt to simulate the damage based on a given caliber/bullet type.

 

For this particular character I would go with just about any of the Automatic pistols except perhaps the Desert Eagle (it is truly a massive auto). To more effectively conceal your handgun, there are several places that sell specialty clothing woth hidden pockets designed to hold handguns comfortably, and essentialy invisibly, while keeping it close at hand.

 

The only concealability problem I see for your character is the silencer. Home made or private sector silencers are not only illegal (assuming your Hero has a concelaed weapon permit, silencer are still illegal), but most easily double the size of the weapon. There are some extremely compact silencers, and even weapons with integral built in silencers, however they are all very tightly controlled by the military/government and the construction and internal workings are classified.

 

In many states a silence is legal, though they have to be federally registered. "tax stamp"

 

I think it is something like 33 states allow suppressors under at least some circumstances.

 

In parts of Britain, hunters are encouraged to use suppressors.

 

IN Finland, there are Ranges where EVERY weapon is suppressed, including "benchrest" rifles.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Firearms are much like cars in the sense that what a person wants in one is very personal. Some people really like 9mm and others will sneer at anything that isn't a .45 ACP. Don't try to figure out what "personality" goes with what gun or caliber. Just pick one.

 

Now as for the weapon your character has. The only issue that I have with it is that it would be next to impossible to carry concealed. As a hip holster in plain view there is no problem. But between the suppressor and the laser sight you start adding lots of bulk. If it is something that the PC only carries into combat then no biggie. If that is his walking around town weapon...well it will get noticed and that will make life uncomfoortable for the PC.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

they make laser sights that fit inside the gun, replacing the recoil spring guide rod.

 

there's another that fits on the front of the trigger guard that's approximately the size of the eraser on a standard #2 pencil.

 

these are both for glocks, will look for images and edit post if i find them.

 

Edit: found some

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

I didn't know silencers were illegal. I'll have to go check what their status is in New Jersey, since thats where hudson city is.

 

I think everybody has a good point with regard to a silencer making the pistol more visible (the book says it adds +1 to the PER roll, for a total of +2). Maybe he can just conceal the silencer somewhere else, unattached to the gun, and only attach it when he feels the need to.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

they make laser sights that fit inside the gun, replacing the recoil spring guide rod.

 

there's another that fits on the front of the trigger guard that's approximately the size of the eraser on a standard #2 pencil.

 

these are both for glocks, will look for images and edit post if i find them.

 

Edit: found some

That laser can only be used for targeting, right? *thinks* The character could probably settle for that. He currently has a multipower one that can switch from "laser sight" to "blinding laser". Its a fun toy.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Glocks are slabsized no nonsense combat guns. If I were picking pistol for a soft spoken analyst who dabbled in magic I would go for a Browning Hipower. This might be listed as a P-35 Browning. Try Google for a picture of an elegant but serviceable pistol.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Glocks are slabsized no nonsense combat guns. If I were picking pistol for a soft spoken analyst who dabbled in magic I would go for a Browning Hipower. This might be listed as a P-35 Browning. Try Google for a picture of an elegant but serviceable pistol.

 

that is one very good choice.

 

I think a .357 magnum revolver with a 4" barrel would be a good one too.

 

There are Millions of them out there, they are very reliable, and for decades it was the primary police weapon. Power level is very adequate for most uses.

 

That last bit is where I think there is a disconnect between the "REAL WORLD" usage of guns, and the usage in a Superheros game of any stripe.

 

A .357 is a good to very effective stopper, depending on ammo choices, on most things smaller than about 400 lbs. IMO! However, these targets are NOT armored, are NOT superhumanly tough, etc.

 

In a world where you might run into MARV in a back alley, I could see carrying a .44 magnum or other guns that in the REAL WORLD are too big, heavy, powerful, and awkward for most people to carry.

 

A lot of the loads for such guns would tend to overpenetrate, dumping very little of their increased energy into a human target, but threatening everyone on the far side of the target. In, again, the real world.

 

DOes it really matter for Game Play?

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Silencers are legal; they simply require the same Federal licensing as does a machine gun. (I've actually fired a legally silenced Uzi submachine gun.) Of course, a quasi-vigilante character in Hudson City is unlikely to be concerned about breaking laws anyway. Batman breaks all kinds of laws, but few players would argue he's not a hero.

 

A .357 revolver is a very good gun, but it has two major problems with regard to this character: 1) You can't put a silencer on any revolver. They don't work because the gases escape out the cylinder gap. 2) They have fewer shots and can't be reloaded as quickly as semi-automatics such as the Glock or Browning. Additionally, and this may or may not be a factor with this particular character, a revolver's thickness at the cylinder can be a problem in terms of carry comfort and concealment compared to most automatics.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Silencers are legal; they simply require the same Federal licensing as does a machine gun.

In some states, IL where I live they are BANNED, you can not even manafacture them for use in areas where they are legal. Federally they are not banned. I do not remember, if in Hudson City silencers are illegal or not???

 

A .357 revolver is a very good gun, but it has two major problems with regard to this character: 1) You can't put a silencer on any revolver. They don't work because the gases escape out the cylinder gap. 2) They have fewer shots and can't be reloaded as quickly as semi-automatics such as the Glock or Browning. Additionally, and this may or may not be a factor with this particular character, a revolver's thickness at the cylinder can be a problem in terms of carry comfort and concealment compared to most automatics.

Very right on your points! I own a SW 686 PP a seven round .357. A dream to operate and VERY accurate, concealment would be almost impossible. But its seven rounds compares favorably to 8 round automatic weapons. The punch of a heavier .357 round is a man stopper. The one advange that I like about a revolver is that has less moving parts and is less likely to malfunction.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Silencers are legal; they simply require the same Federal licensing as does a machine gun. (I've actually fired a legally silenced Uzi submachine gun.) Of course, a quasi-vigilante character in Hudson City is unlikely to be concerned about breaking laws anyway. Batman breaks all kinds of laws, but few players would argue he's not a hero.

 

A .357 revolver is a very good gun, but it has two major problems with regard to this character: 1) You can't put a silencer on any revolver. They don't work because the gases escape out the cylinder gap. 2) They have fewer shots and can't be reloaded as quickly as semi-automatics such as the Glock or Browning. Additionally, and this may or may not be a factor with this particular character, a revolver's thickness at the cylinder can be a problem in terms of carry comfort and concealment compared to most automatics.

 

 

I meant to comment on the silencer issue, my main thrust was that for a "Non Gun Nut" character, a .357 would be avery logical gun.

 

There is one revolver you can easily silence, the old 7.62 nagant pistol the Russians used. It is kind of neat, weird ergonomics, 7 shots, and a fairly weak round.

 

Now the russians are making pistols that use silenced cartridges like the old "teleshot" shotgun rounds, primarily in revolvers.

 

 

The thickness at the cylinder is one reason I stopped at .357. .45 colts and .44 magnums tend to be a fair bit bigger.

 

OTOH, I still think it would be interesting for a character to use the old .5777 "manstopper" revolvers. Cloud of black powder smoke, target gets hit by a HUGE slug at moderate velocity, then falls down. ;)

 

Or a civil war era or reproduction Le Mat revolver. :)

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Gewing: Using a .38 in a .357 gun will also produce a lower recoil and would be more accurate for "non-gun nut". I am more accurate with a .38 rounds in my S&W .357.

 

edit...

 

Looks like you are right outside Chicago? Maybe you should try to get in touch with Skaramine. If he declines to come back for a while, I could put you in touch with him.

 

These gun discussion threads are one of my favorite things. :)

I don't remember seeing you in them before. Welcome to the FUN!

end edit

 

 

.38 special is about the perfect level of power for most people to control. My wife shoots her S&W Model 15 REMARKABLY well for almost no experience or training. OTOH, it is such a sweet handling gun I may have to get something like it for myself!

 

One thing I have heard of a few police officers and such doing with their .357s is loading the first couple chambers with .38 spl, then the rest with .357 magnum. The first shots are more easily controlled for fast shooting, and then if the situation is not resolved, the boomers roll around and have greater stopping power and barrier penetration.

 

I wish I could have bought my friend's Colt King Cobra with the 6" barrel when he decided the Sig P220 and the Desert Eagle were enough for him. Then he sold the Desert Eagle(It was a boat anchor, but a wonderfully accurate one) and for years has "just" had the P220. :) If he actually shot more, I might be able to convince him he needs at least a .22lr for casual plinking and such. :eg:

 

I would like a nice .45 long colt revolver. It is such a neat old round, and has so much flexibility, from light cowboy loads to (in Rugers, at least) serious hunting boomers that surpass a .44 magnum.

I would like to see some companies make a mid level round, something like a 250-300 grain bullet at 1000-1150 fps, the heavier the bullet, the lower the velocity. ;) I really don't want to shoot a 300 gr at 1350 or a 335 gr at 1200!:eek:

 

 

And I want nothing to do with a .500 smith and wesson unless it is in a carbine or rifle with a SERIOUS recoil pad and weighing at least 6.5 lbs, probably 7.5lbs or more.

 

 

I am a gun nut, but I have my limits.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

*looks up the recomended guns in the table*

Okay, the Browning Hipower looks like it wouldn't be too bad, and I could certainly get used to the 20 shot magazine. The big problem is that the PER modifier is +2, as opposed to the the Glocks +1. I guess that might not be a huge difference, but it is there.

 

So .38 is about what normal people carry? hmm, cross referencing that calibur with a +1 PER modifier, I get

Accu-Tek HC-380

AMT Backup

Grendel P-12

Of those three, the Accu-Tek looks like it might be the better choice. One less round per magazine than the Grendel, but it's got a much lower STR min (which I take to mean easier to control)

Maybe all this means the Glock is written up wrong. It has an STR min of 9, as opposed to the 7 on the Browning, so it doesn't look that much harder to control. Then again STR is exponential, so that means the Glock is about half again as hard to control as the Browning. Interesting, interesting.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

*looks up the recomended guns in the table*

 

So .38 is about what normal people carry?

 

.38 and 9mm are the most common calibers carried

10mm and .40 caliber have become fairly common in recent years as well [1]

Most police agencies carry 9mm, but there is a trend to move back to the .45 [2]

 

[1] but they remain distinctive enough to narrow the field for ballistic matching!

[2] esp. among the feds

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Maybe all this means the Glock is written up wrong. It has an STR min of 9' date=' as opposed to the 7 on the Browning, so it doesn't look that much harder to control. Then again STR is exponential, so that means the Glock is about half again as hard to control as the Browning. Interesting, interesting.[/quote']

 

The stats are whacked, but what else is new?

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

Maybe all this means the Glock is written up wrong. It has an STR min of 9, as opposed to the 7 on the Browning, so it doesn't look that much harder to control. Then again STR is exponential, so that means the Glock is about half again as hard to control as the Browning. Interesting, interesting.

 

The STR mininum for most firearms are arbitrarily on the high side.

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Re: How to Read the Firearms Table

 

The STR mininum for most firearms are arbitrarily on the high side.

 

They seem to be based upon an average STR value of 10, not 8.

 

In the old days, a 10 STR was the average for the typical healthy man in the street. Somewhere along with way it was lowered to an 8, but the weapon STR Mins weren't modified.

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