Killer Shrike Posted November 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2005 Re: MetaCyber Got the vehicles page to a "good enough" state, and can finally move on.... http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber_Gear_Vehicles.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted November 29, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Re: MetaCyber For anyone following along, if any, sorry for the delay. Busy week at work, and flying out to DC tomorrow for the rest of the week (business trip, sadly, not for fun). Anyway, Im working on the NET right now, because I went to do Misc Gear but couldnt do Computers until the NET was fully defined. Im taking a different approach than the traditional Nueromancer / Gibson otherworld version of CyberSpace, and going for more of a gritty interactive Computer-assisted Skill approach. Im sure that will turn off some people that like the more surreal approach, but I figure it is easy enough to disregard the method Im implementing in favor of such if a GM wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted November 29, 2005 Report Share Posted November 29, 2005 Re: MetaCyber I've a feeling I'll like your version of the 'Net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Ernie Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Re: MetaCyber More cowbell? No! More Meta-Cyber!! -ME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted December 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Re: MetaCyber Sorry -- been working a couple of 60 hour weeks back to back and had a business trip to DC in the middle that really messed up my schedule. Will get back to this when I can spare the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 Re: MetaCyber As always, your stuff looks great. You have gained much honor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightStick Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 Re: MetaCyber KS, It has been too long since I last took a look at your site....OMG! You have taken what was GREAT before, and turned it into something FANATSTIC! I would have repped you for the site and this post, but I don't have any more to give right now...Later this weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted December 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2005 Re: MetaCyber KS, It has been too long since I last took a look at your site....OMG! You have taken what was GREAT before, and turned it into something FANATSTIC! I would have repped you for the site and this post, but I don't have any more to give right now...Later this weekend! Well thanks. I just hope to get some free time to finish writing MetaCyber up soon while Im still "in the groove". Stupid Real Life with all its distractions and responsibilities keeps getting in the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hancock.tom Posted December 27, 2005 Report Share Posted December 27, 2005 Re: MetaCyber somehow, on my many visits to your many sites i missed metacyber. This should help me with the cyberhero campaign i was thinking about. Now all I need are more plot hooks that I haven't used before in a shadowrun campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Got a rough draft for the NET up. Still a lot to do, but got the underlying mechanic of how to do the "virtual reality" with Mental Illusions roughed out: http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber_Technology_NET.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Got a rough draft for the NET up. Still a lot to do, but got the underlying mechanic of how to do the "virtual reality" with Mental Illusions roughed out: http://www.killershrike.com/MetaCyber/MetaCyber_Technology_NET.shtml Great to see this. I was just wondering this morning on how your 'work' was going. I really like the way your using these programs and how they interact with each other. Thanks for sharing your hard work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Re: MetaCyber I am always reviewing and rereading your MetaCyber Stuff KillerStirke, but you can only REP someone for a Thread once. "You cannot give Reputation to the same post twice." Damn good stuff QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Thanks and thanks. I stalled out a bit on this, but its still on my mind and I will be working on it in the days to come in preparation for a MetaCyber F2F campaign slated to start sometime in FEB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: MetaCyber OK, had some time to make a little progress on this tonite. Ive been making odd notes on this the last couple of weeks, letting it slowly come to me and fleshing it out here and there. Its no where near finished, but its becoming coherent so I thought I'd bounce it out and get some feed back. First off the connection layer. The general expectation is that all NET connectivity occurs thru Terminals, but users have several different options for connecting to a Terminal; either directly or thru another computer, and either via a brainjack or VR Goggles. This is illustrated here: Once a user is connected to the NET they can connect to another computer, typically a server but theoretically any computer on the NET, there are two layers by which communication is possible. The first and lower layer is the Programmatic Interface layer. The second and more abstract layer is the Neural Interface layer. This is illustrated here: A user can use either layer in theory. The Programmatic Interface layer is the realm of pure Computer Programming checks, both opposed and unopposed. To use this layer a user needs to be an actual programmer, commonly called a Hacker. The Neural Interface layer is the realm of nNodes, neurally enabled content. I.e. Virtual Reality. There are different levels of use of nNodes, ranging from public content intended to be openly accessible to everyone, to restricted content intended to be used only by authorized and / or skilled users. Interaction in the Neural Interface layer is conducted inside the construct of Mindscapes that are expressed mechanically as Mental Illusions (this has been covered already in the NET document linked to in an earlier post). Just about any sort of shared reality is possible in a Mindscape, and most of it is just false sensory data. However there are some notable forms of functional constructs that can be found in a Mindscape. The first of which is a Neural Human Interface, or NHI. NHI's are specific interfaces found within a Mindscape that translate commands from a user to the underlying hard and software. NHI's are usually modeled in some abstracted way that loosely relates to doing a similar task in the real world. For instance an NHI designed to make information available to a user might take the form of a virtualized library or a massive tome that flips to the "right page" to reveal information, a security monitoring NHI that exposes real world surveillance data might take the form of a styleized videobank or a room with windows on all sides that reveal camera footage from different devices, and so on. Most NHI's are styled to be cool but functional, but some artistes make a practice out of designing avant garde NHI's that put form ahead of function. NHI's wrap an underlying Skill and or Program available to the Computer running the nNode. Agents are more advanced constructs that add yet another layer of abstraction beyond NHI's, taking the form of an anthropomorphized entity that is interacted with like a person. Agents are substantially more difficult to program and thus good ones are rare and sometimes valuable. However, they serve the same basic functions as NHI's in general with one important difference; they can be programmed to initiate actions on their own according to programmatic criteria. There are some forms of Security that take the form of Agents that actively seek out and take action against unauthorized users. Within the confines of a Mindscape, mental Powers are used for resolution. * To take control of a Mindscape and "reprogram" it requires a competing Mental Illusion. * To use an NHI requires Telepathy * To use an Agent requires Mind Control * Mind Scan can be used to locate specific NHI's, Agents, and Users within a Mindscape * EGO Attack can be used to disrupt other Users and Agents * Telepathy can be used to gain some information about other Users * Mind Control can be used to exert some control over other Users within a Mindscape by the expedient of overriding their Avatars, but this is very limited and difficult. * The Cumulative Advantage may not be used for these Mental Powers. To do all of these things a User must either be using a Computer with the appropriate software installed (i.e. a Computer that has Neurally Enabled Software installed -- to be described when I do the full right up, but basically Limited Mental Powers usable only via the NET), or have equivalents installed directly in their head via Cybernetics. People that practice this sort of NET use are generally called Deckers. There are pros and cons between Hacking and Decking. Pros of Hacking: * Hackers are not limited by hardware. If they are able to connect to another Computer and they have the Skillz, thats all they need. * Hackers do not have to mess around with any esoterica of various Mindscapes to get at what they want. They also do not have to worry about Mental Powers being used against them. * Hackers use Intelligence and a learned skill. Time is also fluid to Hackers; unless something particularly pressing is going on they can take as much time as they need to do something right. * Hackers can write Programs that can do things for them whether they are connected to the NET themselves or not. * Not all software interfaces Neurally; Hackers can get at it, Deckers can't Pros of Decking: * Deckers just need gear and willpower. They basically don't need to know a damn thing about how computers REALLY work beyond some very basic concepts. * Some very complex tasks that could take a Hacker hours to slog thru can be abstracted down to a single interface via an NHI or a single command via an Agent, allowing Deckers to do some powerful things fast (ie with a single Telepathy or Mind Control roll). * Decking is more "fun" than Hacking for most people * Deckers with really tricked out computers, usually called "Decks" in this connotation, can totally own a Mindscape in short order and do all sorts of egregious things. ******************** ROLES ************************ The idea of User Roles must be introduced to all Computers that connect to the NET for this system to work. User Roles indicate different privelege levels assignable to various accounts on a Computer and to users connecting to it via the NET. The Roles are: NET User Local User Super User Local Admin There's a higher level, Sys Admin, but thats only meaningful in the context of a WAN or LAN. Anything limited to a NET User role is public content. Anything limited to a Local User is private content, and typically includes just enough for someone to use the Computer and be semi-productive Anything limited to a Super User is private conent, but includes most or all non-administrative features available to the Computer. Anything limited to a Local Admin is administrative controls on that Computer only. A person of a certain Role has access to everything below their Role as well; a Super User gets everything a Net User and Local User gets plus extra stuff for instance. Features of a Computer designated to a particular Role have intrinsic security that must be overcome by a NET User to be accessible via the NET (assuming a User doesnt have local account on the Computer). When accessing the Computer via the Programmatic Layer, each Role step imposes a -2 penalty to the Users Computer Skill roll to hack into features of that Role. For instance, to access features limited to the Local Admin Role, a -8 penalty is imposed on the Hackers Computer Skill roll. When accessing the Computer via the Neural Layer each Role step above Net User is considered to be a EGO +10 step, with an assumed base EGO of 30. Thus content allowed to Net Users is accessible without an effect roll needed, content accessible to Local Users and up requires an effect roll of 40, content accessible to Super Users requires an effect roll of 50, content accessible to Local Admins requires an effect roll of 60. When using an NHI the Telepathy effect must equal or exceed that amount for it to work, and similarly for Agents the Mind Control effect. Anyway, more later but thats where my head is right now. This provides a way to satisfy both the hate VR Cyberspace and the love VR Cyberspace camps. Keep in mind that this is literally taking shape as we speak, but input is welcome.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: MetaCyber By the way, if anyone wanted to take a crack at making pretty versions of the two diagrams I posted above, I'd be deeply appreciative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Is this thing on? Really looking for some feedback here so I can either move forward or reconsider...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutsleeve Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: MetaCyber The cons of decking and hacking missing. Though i can imagine the general bad of them. decking = potential brain baking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: MetaCyber The cons of decking and hacking missing. Though i can imagine the general bad of them. decking = potential brain baking. Yes, that's intrinsic to the NET being constructed with Mental Illusions; which can be used to do some damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: MetaCyber I was out yesterday and letting your concepts percolate. Your ideas are interesting and I'm intrigued to learn how they may work in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Good ideas. Here are some questions I have off the top of my head. 1) What physically is in that NET cloud? Fiber? Gigabit? Quantum tunneling? Magic gnomes? About what is the maximum bandwidth? 2) What about alternate protocols? Is the NET required to all talk the same lingo? What other protocols can you tunnel across it? 3) What if a server is prevented from participating in the NET by blocking certain "ports?" And do they still even use ports? Sure anything is hackable in theory but how hard can the server owner make it? What about single protocol servers, read-only servers, custom NET software? 4) What about physical barriers and physical access? How well does NET stuff work at a distance? Can it be used on a long haul network? How about to the moon or Mars? 5) What about brand names and quality of equpiment? Does it matter? 6) What about additional layers of the NET underneath the programatic one? There should be serveral... Despite all this, I think you should avoid making anything too concrete or too realistic. People probably don't want to deal with "real stuff" while gaming. Also, "real stuff" gets obsolete and trite fast. GURPS Cyberpunk is really really dated now, but Shadowrun 1st ed. is still ok, mostly because it's all basically fantasy. Shadowrun memory is optical and measured in megapulses, which never gets old because it's all made up. Just my 2 bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Excellent questions gojira. Some of them are semi-answered in the material already up on my site, but addressing them specifically is a good idea. Ill formulate an in depth answer tonite or tomorrow, addressing your points. I will make a side note that my first pass at the NET was much more technical, but after talking with some people I realized that it was TOO technical and complex, so I backed up and started over. The goal of this is to be realistic enough to make sense, but not so realistic that it becomes a chore to deal with it or be inaccessible to non-tech heads. Heres where I first started down a more complex path before deciding to scuttle it and go the Mental Powers route: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39115 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Dang. I sort of liked the other method and wouldn't mind seeing what you'd do if playing with people that like the technical aspect of it. Using Mental Awareness is cool, too. The concept of the hidden/only open to people with these senses 'world' beyond our own isn't new. Dealing with it in this way is. IOW, it could be used for other things as well, like 'ghost-talking' or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Good ideas. Here are some questions I have off the top of my head. Despite all this, I think you should avoid making anything too concrete or too realistic. People probably don't want to deal with "real stuff" while gaming. Also, "real stuff" gets obsolete and trite fast. GURPS Cyberpunk is really really dated now, but Shadowrun 1st ed. is still ok, mostly because it's all basically fantasy. Shadowrun memory is optical and measured in megapulses, which never gets old because it's all made up. Just my 2 bucks. 1) What physically is in that NET cloud? Fiber? Gigabit? Quantum tunneling? Magic gnomes? About what is the maximum bandwidth? The basics regarding the technology are detailed in the NET document here: http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/MetaCyber_Technology_NET.shtml As far as bandwidth, I don't see any need to define it -- as much bandwidth as needed to provide the various services described is available. 2) What about alternate protocols? Is the NET required to all talk the same lingo? What other protocols can you tunnel across it? Alternate protocols are certainly physically possible, but I don't see them as being significant enough in the context of the campaign to bother detailing. What did you have in mind, perhaps Ill change my mind. 3) What if a server is prevented from participating in the NET by blocking certain "ports?" And do they still even use ports? Sure anything is hackable in theory but how hard can the server owner make it? What about single protocol servers, read-only servers, custom NET software? I have some ideas in this regard. For the purposes of hardening a server from manipulation via a Mindscape, the administrator can simply not provide NHI / Agent access to certain Programs running on the Computer. Alternately Mental Defense could be applied to an NHI / Agent to make them harder to manipulate. To resist hacking via the Programmatic layer levels either levels with Computer Programming limited to be only to resist public access, or a Security Systems skill used as a complementary skill roll would suffice. Servers can also not be connected to the NET of course, in which case they simply are not hackable from the NET. 4) What about physical barriers and physical access? How well does NET stuff work at a distance? Can it be used on a long haul network? How about to the moon or Mars? Presumed to be near-instaneous within the confines of the setting, there not being any lunar or martian colonies to worry about. 5) What about brand names and quality of equpiment? Does it matter? Yes, there are brand names and yes quality does matter for Decking. A high pass on major megacorps exists here: http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/MetaCyberSetting_Organizations.shtml and contains several technology companies that make computers and related tech. As equipment lists are filled out, names and models will be associated with various builds / designs. 6) What about additional layers of the NET underneath the programatic one? There should be serveral... What did you have in mind, and what would be the gamist justification for extra levels of complexity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gojira Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Re: MetaCyber 1) What physically is in that NET cloud? Fiber? Gigabit? Quantum tunneling? Magic gnomes? About what is the maximum bandwidth? The basics regarding the technology are detailed in the NET document here: http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/MetaCyber_Technology_NET.shtml This is neat. As I read it, I started thinking that the NTTP protocol might not be all digital, and there might some analog to it. There also might be some neural nets in the terminal to receive and process the signal. These neural nets are 100% inorganic and never, ever develop any sort of personality, according to the manufacturer, despite what some customers claim. And of course the NET itself could never as a result develop sentience. As far as bandwidth, I don't see any need to define it -- as much bandwidth as needed to provide the various services described is available. So how long would it take me to download some information, say Huckleberry Finn by Mark Twain? Instantaneous? 1 second? 10 Seconds? 1 minute? How much data needs to be downloaded before delays start to be encountered? 2) What about alternate protocols? Is the NET required to all talk the same lingo? What other protocols can you tunnel across it? Alternate protocols are certainly physically possible, but I don't see them as being significant enough in the context of the campaign to bother detailing. What did you have in mind, perhaps Ill change my mind. Could a skilled programmer invent a new protocol, layer it on top of NTTP, encrypt it, obsuficate it, and have something that was completely undectable to any other programmer? How about just uncrackable? How far does automated decryption go and how common is it? Everyone uses it? Just the government? What's the NET equivalent of Kazaa? Of Bit-Torrent? What about hiding data inside noisy data like pictures? That's normally undectable unless you know just where to look. What if a hacker downloads a vid and wants to check it for a watermark, how certain can he be that there's nothing (else) hidden in his booty? 3) What if a server is prevented from participating in the NET by blocking certain "ports?" And do they still even use ports? Sure anything is hackable in theory but how hard can the server owner make it? What about single protocol servers, read-only servers, custom NET software? I have some ideas in this regard. For the purposes of hardening a server from manipulation via a Mindscape, the administrator can simply not provide NHI / Agent access to certain Programs running on the Computer. Alternately Mental Defense could be applied to an NHI / Agent to make them harder to manipulate. This sounds about like I would expect. Maybe define some levels of Mental Defense so players have some idea what they'll be up against. For example, Joe Blow who tries to harden his vid server will end up with 1 to 5 points of mental defense on all systems on his server. Only the blackest parts of the government with the blackest AI can get over 20 points of Mental Defense. Or whatever makes sense. Define some AP limits (or ranges) for Deckers. To resist hacking via the Programmatic layer levels either levels with Computer Programming limited to be only to resist public access, or a Security Systems skill used as a complementary skill roll would suffice. Also good. Define some skill levels players should expect to see, or define their expected skill ranges. Servers can also not be connected to the NET of course, in which case they simply are not hackable from the NET. Can I make a server into dedicated firewall? How much protection does this provide? Can I make a dedicated server into a firewall for the dedicated firewall? How much more protection can this provide? Ad infinitum. How close to not being connected to the NET can I get and still squirt something useful through once in a while? What about if I switch protocols? What if I connect one dedicated server to the NET, then connect it via a serial port to the server with the real data? Data can still be run over the serial port so it can be transmitted, but only if you can find the port and how to tickle it. Now replace a standard serial port with whatever crazy piece of hardware that a decker's board might not be programmed to scan for. Ditto with logs. Logs can be altered, but not if there's a copy being sent to a computer not on the NET, like logs sent via a dumb protocol like a serial cable. The most you could do is stop the logging, but most hackers don't like to do that because they're trying not be too obvious. And logging to a serial port is not always obvious. (If it were me, I wouldn't alter the logging config file, I'd recompile the binary so it logged automatically. Most people don't verify the binaries of a system they've just cracked.) Now take a computer protected by a series of firewalls. Dump the firewall logs via a dump portocol like serial to a dedicated machine that's not on the NET and just scans for problems. If there's any problem detected, depower the systems with the most sensitive data so they can't transmit and sound the alarm. This should happen as the first or second firewall is still being tampered with, before any real system is reached. Not trying to hassle you, except that players will eventually start to think how to protect their data. Or wonder why corps don't protect their's better. 4) What about physical barriers and physical access? How well does NET stuff work at a distance? Can it be used on a long haul network? How about to the moon or Mars? Presumed to be near-instantaneous within the confines of the setting, there not being any lunar or Martian colonies to worry about. Ok. Don't be surprised if the players want to steal the space shuttle at some point tho. Are there any colonies in near orbit? 5) What about brand names and quality of equipment? Does it matter? Yes, there are brand names and yes quality does matter for Decking. A high pass on major megacorps exists here: http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/MetaCyberSetting_Organizations.shtml and contains several technology companies that make computers and related tech. As equipment lists are filled out, names and models will be associated with various builds / designs. Cool 6) What about additional layers of the NET underneath the programmatic one? There should be several... What did you have in mind, and what would be the gamist justification for extra levels of complexity? I wanted to see a big ol' poster sized multi-protocol stack just like the big companies produce when they want to wow you with their product. But mostly just for color, I can't think of what it would actually be used for. Maybe programming "closer to the metal" could give you a bonus on a result, in exchange for extra time, and a penalty on the roll, but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Re: MetaCyber Kind of a nonsequitir at this point, but one of my players made a (lengthy) case for why Tubers were not quite good enough previously, and I came up with a solution; allow the player to pay in for more random rolls -- up to 100 points worth. http://www.killershrike.com/metacyber/MetaCyberCharacters.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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