Bengalelf Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 I asked Steve Long a question about the Limitation Lockout. I have a new player coming tomorrow. He has created a new character, the character has lockout on his energy blast, abosportion and his flight. I agree with Steve the limitation doesn't work with the energy blast because energy blast is an instant power... How do I discribe this to the player. I cannot find anywhere in the 5th revised where it says Lockout cannot be used with an instant power. Does anyone know where in the book I can find support for my opinion outside of the old I am the GM? The player keeps emailing me "The book says I can." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout The player keeps emailing me "The book says I can." Ask the player to cite an entry in the book which specifically says that he can. If not, what he's really been saying is that he couldn't find anything in the book which said he couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Few questions. 1) What type of Framework is it? EC? MP, with Fixed slots? MP, with Variable slots? VPP? 2) What does he envision it as, SFX wise? Does the Framework even make sense from a Special Effect point of view? Keep in mind, with Lockout on the Energy Blast he cannot use it on any phase where the other Constant Powers are in use. If he's flying he's not shooting. Deny the I turn off flight, shoot, turn on flight because it's a 0phase action trick. The book does not say one can or cannot take Lockout on Instant or Constant Powers - it simply mentions that it is most appropriate for Frameworks where normally multiple powers may be used at once (ECs being the most common variety of that). It also states the GM may adjust the value of Lockout as they see fit based on the powers in the Framework. If he insists allow Lockout and adjust it up to a -0 Limitation; not only does it prevent him from using any powers but he gets no points. If you don't feel like being mean from the onset try this method: He flies around and then turns off flight to shoot, thinking his next phase he'll just turn it back on. Remind he falling is by Segement and start his decent right then and there per the Falling Rules (5ER p434-436, Sidekick p106). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengalelf Posted May 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout That is my biggest problem with the limitation. He has no Power Framework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout While not illegal by the book, it does break the spirit of the Limitation. You have two options: Let it go and work with it as described above. State that your games only allow Lockout to be taken with Powerframeworks of the appropriate type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout The biggest question to ask is... Why are the other powers Locked Out when any one power is in use? Are they all part of the same focus? What's the Special Effects Reason for Lockout, or is he just fishing for points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengalelf Posted May 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout My personal opinion, He is fishing for points. He just bought a 5th edition rule book and I think he is trying to cram something together as fast as he can. I fear he could be a rules lawyer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout I would also suggest pointing your player at the board. Just because you can do a thing doesn't necessarily mean you should do a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout If you don't feel like being mean from the onset try this method: He flies around and then turns off flight to shoot, thinking his next phase he'll just turn it back on. Remind he falling is by Segement and start his decent right then and there per the Falling Rules (5ER p434-436, Sidekick p106). Of course, in a way this could be considered more mean . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Of course' date=' in a way this could be considered [i']more[/i] mean . . . Yes well... I can be a right bastard when it's called for. At least now he'll have something to spend his Experience Points on... assuming he survives the landing that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout I would also suggest pointing your player at the board. Just because you can do a thing doesn't necessarily mean you should do a thing. Words to live by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout At least now he'll have something to spend his Experience Points on... assuming he survives the landing that is. Superleap, landings only (-1), single charge non-recoverable (-2), SFX: "wildly improbable coincidence" (GM's option). If he's got XP, he may just live through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Superleap, landings only (-1), single charge non-recoverable (-2), SFX: "wildly improbable coincidence" (GM's option). If he's got XP, he may just live through it. Oh you're nice... I would wait until he landed then helpfully suggest that he spend his XP buying Lockout off of his Flight AND Energy Blast... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Yep... yeah, yeah I see where you're going with this. No, I rethought my position. Let's put lockout on ALL your powers. Yeah... that's a great unifying concept for a hero. No, seriously! Making sure he's perfectly focused on everything he does. Mmhmm. Yes. On your flight, force fields... and your armor, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murrkon5 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout ...Just because you can do a thing doesn't necessarily mean you should do a thing. In one sentence, you've pretty much hit the key divide between all gamers. I fully agree with you. However, I've had the misfortune to be present when tempers nearly go nuclear on this point. The Lovers of Rules vs the Lovers of RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout RP 4EVA! FIGHT THE RULES LAWYERS! DOWN WITH OPPRESSION! Oh... sorry, wrong forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Yep... yeah, yeah I see where you're going with this. No, I rethought my position. Let's put lockout on ALL your powers. Yeah... that's a great unifying concept for a hero. No, seriously! Making sure he's perfectly focused on everything he does. Mmhmm. Yes. On your flight, force fields... and your armor, too. Actually ... you hit on a thought I had. You see, Lockout is intended for Frameworks, with the implication that a Power in a Framework with Lockout only locks out other powers in the Framework. Lockout outside a Framework has no such implication..... Lockout means no other powers can be turned on as long as the Lockout Power is active. I read the post to Steve, Lockout on Absorption, Flight and Energy Blast outside a Framework means that in ANY PHASE which one of those three powers is activated NO OTHER power may be used. Defenses, Movement, Senses, any other power they have is not available. So go ahead ... use Lockout on a normal power. Then use it. And watch your Armor, Force Field, Force Wall, Flight, Nightvision, Mind Link, Images, and anything else you've got Turn Off until your Next Phase. .....splat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout .....splat. Superleap for landings only is still way too expensive for just "takes no damage from falling" (technically noone does anyway, but anyway), it's at least as cheap to take "Resistant PD, only for taking no impact damage on landing". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout That was effectively my point, yes. By all means - lockout whatever you like. Since it's unattached to a piece of code, it's more like a virus than anything else. It would be great for powers that also had, say, Concentration (0 DCV, Totally Unaware) to represent his absolute focus. It would work, then, just fine. Lockout then ALSO represents the players inability to do anything else while using that particular power (say, Alchemy, potion brewing, etc.). Buying it outside a framework, as you say, or simply putting it on one too many powers borders on suicide. As always, it seems, the rules (once properly interpreted) take care of themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Superleap for landings only is still way too expensive for just "takes no damage from falling" (technically noone does anyway' date=' but [i']anyway[/i]), it's at least as cheap to take "Resistant PD, only for taking no impact damage on landing". Except neither can be used until your Lockout ends on your next Phase..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Except neither can be used until your Lockout ends on your next Phase..... Even in general . . . that's why I've been thinking about Superleap and working out the cost for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout My personal opinion' date=' He is fishing for points. He just bought a 5th edition rule book and I think he is trying to cram something together as fast as he can. I fear he could be a rules lawyer.....[/quote'] You fear he could be a rules lawyer? Here's your proof: The player keeps emailing me "The book says I can." The appropriate response is "Yes, I understand that, but in this case I belive the book is wrong and that's how I'm going to rule it. Any other questions?" Sometimes I miss the oldschool days when arguing with the GM was punishable by a rulebook upside the head... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout Sometimes I miss the oldschool days when arguing with the GM was punishable by a rulebook upside the head... That's not allowed anymore? then why'd I armor plate 5ER? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robyn Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout That's not allowed anymore? then why'd I armor plate 5ER? To keep people from shooting holes in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thia Halmades Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 Re: with the Disad Lockout That's okay. The power of 5ERs Rock'n'Roll soul makes the bullets bounce off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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