Hero is broken

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

arbitrarily assuming each DC is twice as much damage is not supported.

 

However, assuming each DC represents twice as much energy IS supported, by both the lifting chart and and analysis of firearm damage.

[Arthur]

Originally posted by archer

Someone is confusing damage with force. Doubling the damage does not add +1 DC. Doubling the force of the attack adds +1 DC. Doubling the damage of an attack would add as many DCs to the attack as the attack's original DCs.

 

Energy, not force.

 

The mixup here is based on what we, the gamers, see vs. what happens in the characters' world. We roll one more die, they see it as twice as much energy. So to speak.

 

IOW, the game mechanic of "roll twice as many dice" actually converts to a squaring of the energy or power of the attack from the POV of the fictional characters.

[Kristopher]

Originally posted by Arthur

The original thread starter's interpretation of Coordinated Attacks is incorrect. Others have already pointed that out.

 

However, the geometric damage scale of Hero DOES cause some odd effects, but you have to extend the analysis a bit.

 

Our Hero has 14 BODY. Assume Killing Damage and no resistant defenses. You shoot OH with a 1d KA. It takes four shots to put him at 0 BODY, and four more (a total of eight) to kill him.

 

"That's too many shots!" we cry. Let's use a weapon that does eight times as much damage! However, 8x as much damage from the characters' POV is only 2d or twice as much in points of damage due to the exponential nature of the system.

 

Our Hero is put to zero BODY by two shots, and killed outright by four shots (he's having a rough day). Eight times as much KE, but it takes only half as many shots.

 

You can do a similar analysis of points of BODY, making certain assumptions (IIRC, +2 BODY = x2 mass) and show that also gives counter-intuitive results.

 

Is Hero broken this way? Yes. Is there any game system that doesn't have similar problems? Not that I've ever found.

 

The BODY multipliers for the hit locations sometimes make it easier to kill someone with small KAs. A heavy pistol is about 2d6 RKA, doing an average of 7 body. Two average hits leave the 14 BODY character dying. Now, shoot him in the head. ONE average hit leaves him dying.

 

I don't find that at all unrealistic.

 

Now, as for the "doubling," I see no reason to assume that it applies to anything but lifting. There's nothing to imply that the game mechanics of damage, BODY, STUN, or defenses are anything but linear.

 

The "muzzle energy" example doesn't hold up to a quick glance at the weapons chart in Hero 5th, or a little knowledge of firearms. A .50 BMG is listed as a 2d6+1 RKA, which is about the same damage as a very heavy pistol, which is too anemic for the .50 BMG. A .50 BMG hit to the body or head should be, on average, overkill -- about 3.5d6* RKA if the average person has 10 BODY. The .50 BMG, fired from the typical weapon made to fire that round, also has many times more energy than any pistol round, including the .50 AE that's listed as doing the same damage. If you don't understand why the idea of both weapons doing the same damage or having the same energy is a joke, find someone who has handled both a .50 BMG and a .50 AE round (or better yet, someone who has fired both) and ask them to explain it.

 

* "Three and a half D6." 3 1/2d6 looks like gibberish.

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Kristopher

The "muzzle energy" example doesn't hold up to a quick glance at the weapons chart in Hero 5th, or a little knowledge of firearms. A

 

The analysis I did used data mostly from the Jane's series for military weapons, and various other technical sources for small arms. This was about ten years ago, so therefore was the previous edition. Hero 4th actually did much better in being consistent in its mathematical modelling. Using THAT data, the doubling of muzzle KE per +1 DC was quite apparent. FRED breaks with tradition in this case, which to me is a huge mistake.

 

.50 BMG is listed as a 2d6+1 RKA, which is about the same damage as a very heavy pistol, which is too anemic for the .50 BMG. A

 

Ah. Funny you should mention that one. Yes, that perplexed me as well for some time. Even in 4E, it was an anomaly. The KE progression called for something like a 3d RKA. However, in 4E the .50 BMG was automatically assigned Armor Piercing!

Therefore, its 2d RKA equated (closely enough) to a 3d RKA in terms of Active Points. Balance, of a sort, was restored - or at least I could see why its damage was rated so low.

 

I fail to understand why there is so much resistance to this idea. Some things are implicit. GURPS doesn't have to explicitly say "4d is twice as much as 2d!" - it is obviously a linear system. When comparing what real-world weapons could do and comparing them to their HERO ratings and the STR chart, the implicate order became abundantly clear, at least in 4E. Once again, FRED, in assigning what appears to be arbitrary damage values, is making a big mistake, IMO. I would love to write or see written a tome not unlike the Weapons chapter of GURPS Vehicles for HERO. Some of you may have seen a similar system in 3G3 by BTRC.

 

Some of us LIKE to see some sort of pattern. That way, we have an implicit system that can be reverse-engineered into a "convert real-world weapons" game mechanic. Building weapons with Active Points is great for the pure SuperHeroic genre, but I think HERO is a fine Universal System that would be well-served by a consistent modelling for real-world items.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

You've apparently missed my entire point, which is there is no absolute or explicit scale in the game system for what a d6 is. It doesn't matter whether or not EB or Killing Attacks or Transformations are based on the STR damage chart, because nowhere does HERO say that 11d6 is twice as much damage as 10d6. 11d6 is not twice as much damage than 10d6, it is simply 1d6 more damage. What 1d6 actually is is irrelevant. It's simply a way to keep track of relative amounts of damage and defenses.

 

You are extrapolating from a lifting chart which doubles lifting capability per 5 points, but does not double either throwing or leaping distances. Based on the other aspects of the STR charts, arbitrarily assuming each DC is twice as much damage is not supported.

Muhuhuhahahaha! You just can't get away from it, can you Trebuchet? You know what I have to say to you on this one. If anything, you are pointing out an obvious flaw in the system. Why wouldn't leaping and throwing increase proportionately match lifting increases? Also, when players are measuring how mighty a character's strength is do they ask how much he can lift or how much he can leap? If you say leap, I'll have to think silly things about you.

 

Still, I refute this thread's premise. Hero is not broken!

[Kristopher]

Oh, I refute the thread's premise, too.

 

I'm just wandering off on my own with some other stuff tangentially related to whatever it was the original post said.

 

One important thing to note about firearms and KE. It's not the KE at the muzzle that matters, it's the KE at the other end of the flight you have to worry about...

 

I'm trying to recall some ballistics data I once read, specifically as to whether, in general, there is an increasing or diminishing return in damage as KE is increased.

 

[Galadorn]

Originally posted by Agent X

Still, I refute this thread's premise. Hero is not broken!

 

I agree. There are probably issues of simplicity that Hero could deal with. Maybe a little covering for all those nuts and bolts?

 

All I know is the time it would take to design a Hero character, is far longer then for many other systems. Of course, I get more out of it.

 

But, I think the initial time up front, especially if they are new to the game system, may be disheartening. But for us people with alot of experience, it's whats makes the game rich.

[Thirdbase]

Hero Errata

 

Originally posted by Kristopher

The BODY multipliers for the hit locations sometimes make it easier to kill someone with small KAs. A heavy pistol is about 2d6 RKA, doing an average of 7 body. Two average hits leave the 14 BODY character dying. Now, shoot him in the head. ONE average hit leaves him dying.

 

I don't find that at all unrealistic.

 

Now, as for the "doubling," I see no reason to assume that it applies to anything but lifting. There's nothing to imply that the game mechanics of damage, BODY, STUN, or defenses are anything but linear.

 

The "muzzle energy" example doesn't hold up to a quick glance at the weapons chart in Hero 5th, or a little knowledge of firearms. A .50 BMG is listed as a 2d6+1 RKA, which is about the same damage as a very heavy pistol, which is too anemic for the .50 BMG. A .50 BMG hit to the body or head should be, on average, overkill -- about 3.5d6* RKA if the average person has 10 BODY. The .50 BMG, fired from the typical weapon made to fire that round, also has many times more energy than any pistol round, including the .50 AE that's listed as doing the same damage. If you don't understand why the idea of both weapons doing the same damage or having the same energy is a joke, find someone who has handled both a .50 BMG and a .50 AE round (or better yet, someone who has fired both) and ask them to explain it.

 

* "Three and a half D6." 3 1/2d6 looks like gibberish.

 

From the Hero Errata:

 

Page 332 - the damage for the .50 caliber machine gun should be 3d6. This gives it an Active Point cost of 157, and a Real Point cost of 63.

 

A .50 BMG round will do a number on just about anything, it started its life as an early Anti-Tank round.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Agent X

Muhuhuhahahaha! You just can't get away from it, can you Trebuchet? You know what I have to say to you on this one. If anything, you are pointing out an obvious flaw in the system. Why wouldn't leaping and throwing increase proportionately match lifting increases? Also, when players are measuring how mighty a character's strength is do they ask how much he can lift or how much he can leap? If you say leap, I'll have to think silly things about you.

In the real world people who can lift twice as much don't jump twice as far, so why should that apply in the Hero universe? And even in Hero how much damage delivered by a blow is as much technique as raw strength, hence the popularity of martial artists. I'm more than willing to concede that lifting is a better measurable scale for strength than damage, but that's been my point all along. You have no evidence anywhere to indicate that 11d6 is twice as much damage as 10d6. You are basing your argument on a false premise; which is that the Strength Charts support your theory. In point of fact they neither confirm nor deny it.

 

While you can plausibly argue that since each 5 points of STR means lifting twice as much and therefore that each Damage Class equates to delivering twice as much energy when striking, I can just as plausibly argue (theoretically) using the very same charts that since leaping distance doubles every 10 points then each 10 STR doubles striking energy and therefore each 2 DCs is twice as much. This is not an insignificant difference. By your method 10d6 is 512 times as much energy as 1d6, by mine it is approximately 24 times as much. "1 DC" is a purely arbitrary number applied in a game system to keep track of an abstraction within that game, not a physics formula. Let's concede we just don't know and move on.

 

Still, I refute this thread's premise. Hero is not broken!

On this at least we can agree. It may be flawed, as are all things made by mortal man, but it is not broken.

[Warp9]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

You are basing your argument on a false premise; which is that the Strength Charts support your theory. In point of fact they neither confirm nor deny it.

 

While I agree that there are some strong arguments to make for damage being linear, there are other reasons than the Strength Chart to lead one to the conclusion that damage is exponential.

 

1) Mass is exponential with regard to Body--every doubling of mass adds 1 body. Also Every +1 body will double the size of a hole made in an object.

 

Fact: each DC of normal damage will, on average, do +1 Body.

 

And thus a 25d6 EB will make a hole (on average) 32 times larger than a 20d6 EB. Or a 25d6 EB will (on average) cut through 32 times as much material with each shot.

 

The mathematics of +1 Body per each doubling of mass means that a 200d6 EB can destroy the Earth, that being the case, it is hard to argue that damage is _not_ exponential.

 

2) The Kinetic Energy of the fire arm table supports the logic that +1 DC = twice the energy. (.50 HMG = 3d6K)

 

3) The standard system for determining velocity damage is linear. However, starting on page 292 of FREd there is an optional Velocity damage table that turns velocity damage from a linear pattern to a exponential pattern based on kinetic energy. KE = 1/2 Mass X (velocity^2), thus every time you double in speed you get 4 times the KE, thus +2 Velocity Factor, and thus +2 DC (at least for most cases).

 

Right at the beginning of the optional velocity damage section, it says that this new optional system is "useful for gamers who (a) would prefer a more realistic system for determining velocity damage. . ." Why would the new system be more realistic, if damage were meant to be linear? On page 292, it is indicated that the normal system of linear velocity damage is in place for reasons of simplicity rather than realism.

 

Again, I still agree that there are arguments to be made in favor of linear damage. But I feel that there are many reasons, other than the Strength Chart, for arguing that damage is exponential.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Klytus

And in the original version of Shadowrun, you could stuff a grenade down your shorts and suffer - at worst - a Moderate Wound (it takes three Moderate Wounds and 1 Light Wound to be killed in SR).

 

For the wimpy grenades, yes the damage was Moderate. However since you doing a called shot to the vitals, the damage code goes up by one to Serious.

 

For real grenades, the damage would be Deadly.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

In the real world people who can lift twice as much don't jump twice as far, so why should that apply in the Hero universe? And even in Hero how much damage delivered by a blow is as much technique as raw strength, hence the popularity of martial artists. I'm more than willing to concede that lifting is a better measurable scale for strength than damage, but that's been my point all along. You have no evidence anywhere to indicate that 11d6 is twice as much damage as 10d6. You are basing your argument on a false premise; which is that the Strength Charts support your theory. In point of fact they neither confirm nor deny it.

 

While you can plausibly argue that since each 5 points of STR means lifting twice as much and therefore that each Damage Class equates to delivering twice as much energy when striking, I can just as plausibly argue (theoretically) using the very same charts that since leaping distance doubles every 10 points then each 10 STR doubles striking energy and therefore each 2 DCs is twice as much. This is not an insignificant difference. By your method 10d6 is 512 times as much energy as 1d6, by mine it is approximately 24 times as much. "1 DC" is a purely arbitrary number applied in a game system to keep track of an abstraction within that game, not a physics formula. Let's concede we just don't know and move on.

 

On this at least we can agree. It may be flawed, as are all things made by mortal man, but it is not broken.

I understand your "real world" analogy but, let's remember, that the strongest in the real world tend to be big, heavy guys. In a world where strength is not really tied simply to muscle mass it makes more sense for lifting, leaping, and throwing to match more closely.

 

You already know why I like the doubling concept. It allows for a greater range of power to be represented at a playable level. A technically correct write-up of many comic book super-teams would leave half the team with nothing to do in a conflict if we use the scale you advocate.

[Dust Raven]

Mmm...

 

A guy who does 4d6 with a punch. That would be a 20 STR, enough to lift and carry over 800 lbs for short distances, and over a ton for a second or two.

 

Looking at that, I really don't see how this guy couldn't reasonably take down an elephant...especially if he picked up a big stick.

 

Of course, he could be a martial artist, using a spiffy punch. But then he would also know how to use the stick with that spiffy punch, an it probably wouldn't be just any stick, but a weapon designed to be used with that spiffy punch.

 

Anyways, HERO is NOT broken! It's not perfect, but neither is reality.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Warp9

Fact: each DC of normal damage will, on average, do +1 Body.

 

And thus a 25d6 EB will make a hole (on average) 32 times larger than a 20d6 EB. Or a 25d6 EB will (on average) cut through 32 times as much material with each shot.

 

The mathematics of +1 Body per each doubling of mass means that a 200d6 EB can destroy the Earth, that being the case, it is hard to argue that damage is _not_ exponential.

I believe you are incorrect in this assertation. Nowhere in HERO does it say that +1 BODY damage doubles the size of a hole in all objects. This rule specifically applies to walls only (5th Edition, page 304). In no way is the Earth similar to a wall in configuration. Walls are thin objects with a thin cross-section, the Earth is an oblate spheroid with a substantially different cross section. ( | vs. O )

 

Can you provide the data on how you arrived at a number of 200d6 destroying Earth? Earth's total volume is 10^21 * 1.1m³, so how many doublings does it take with each cubic game inch taking 8 cubic meters? By my calculations (Admittedly possibly incorrect; math is not my strongest suit) that gives Earth 137,000,000 cubic game inches, of which the square root of is 11726.0394. So wouldn't that mean it would take over 11,000d6 to destroy the Earth?

 

And what about the vastly denser and tougher core of iron at the center of our little planet? How does that effect your formula? (Although in practical terms, any attack that penetrates to the Earth's core in effect would destroy the planet.)

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Agent X

You already know why I like the doubling concept. It allows for a greater range of power to be represented at a playable level. A technically correct write-up of many comic book super-teams would leave half the team with nothing to do in a conflict if we use the scale you advocate.

And I fully support your choice to use your interpretation of the damage scale in your own game. However, in net game effects the difference is virtually nil. In Hero terms, 11d6 is only slightly more powerful than 10d6, be it twice as powerful or hundreds of times more powerful in real world effects. Were we operating in the real world, this would be a much more important bit of information. As it is, it's merely an interesting bit of trivia to argue over.

 

I think such things are best decided on a campaign by campaign basis. Your numbers make more sense at the cosmic end of the superhero scale (Superman, Legion of Superheroes, Thor, etc.). I think mine work better at the lower levels my campaign uses. My team still fights agents. I can accept our team brick (65 STR, 13d6) hits dozens of times harder than my martial artist (15 STR, 10d6), I have a hard time accepting she's hitting thousands of times harder. That just seems a bit implausible to me. YMMV.

[Killer Shrike]

Not to quibble, and as a complete non sequitir, but according to the X Universe the center of the Earth is composed of Vibranium and is actually a nascent/embryonic Celestial. Thats also why, in the X Universe, Galactus goes around "eating planets"; he's absorbing the Celestial embryo's in a long running war with the Celestials. As an aside to an aside, Galactus is also really Franklin Richards. As a tangent to an aside to an aside, who really cares how many DC's of damage is a doubling of force or KE or whatever? Its either enough damage to do the trick, not enough, or too much and its all relative to the target.

 

Linear or Exponential, either my defenses are enough to bounce your attack or they arent and I take some damage.

 

Particular weapons are just SFX.

 

There is nothing systemic keeping a character from making a 10d6 RKA and calling it a .38 Special. Its just a SFX with which to impart damage. The fact that the 'default' .38 Special that is available as equipment in a Heroic campaign is significantly less lethal than that means slightly less than nothing. The presented weaps are for comparison purposes only. Any GM could chuck the whole thing in favor of a completely altered chart.

 

Basically, it could read "Tiny Gun Xd6 K", +Yd6 K per Order of Magnitude (rated as Small, Average, Big, Huge, Massive, etc), or anything else. The amount of damage weapons do in terms of effectiveness is only measurable within the context of who/what the target is.

 

Besides, everyone knows that in the HERO System its the STUN that will get you 9 times out of 10

 

IMO, YMMV.....

[Warp9]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

I believe you are incorrect in this assertation. Nowhere in HERO does it say that +1 BODY damage doubles the size of a hole in all objects. This rule specifically applies to walls only (5th Edition, page 304). In no way is the Earth similar to a wall in configuration. Walls are thin objects with a thin cross-section, the Earth is an oblate spheroid with a substantially different cross section. ( | vs. O )

 

Can you provide the data on how you arrived at a number of 200d6 destroying Earth? Earth's total volume is 10^21 * 1.1m³, so how many doublings does it take with each cubic game inch taking 8 cubic meters? By my calculations (Admittedly possibly incorrect; math is not my strongest suit) that gives Earth 137,000,000 cubic game inches, of which the square root of is 11726.0394. So wouldn't that mean it would take over 11,000d6 to destroy the Earth?

 

 

Under "Breaking Things" FREd (page 303) it says: "an object's body depends on it's total mass, each doubling of mass is +1 BODY." My specific assertion in the case of the Earth's BODY rating (and its ability to be destroyed) was based on this fact--and had nothing to do with "walls."

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

<...>

In Hero terms, 10d6 is only slightly more powerful than 10d6

<...>

 

This makes my head hurt

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Warp9

Under "Breaking Things" FREd (page 303) it says: "an object's body depends on it's total mass, each doubling of mass is +1 BODY." My specific assertion in the case of the Earth's BODY rating (and its ability to be destroyed) was based on this fact--and had nothing to do with "walls."

You are correct, however the assertation that each +1 BODY damage to an object doubles the size of the hole applies only to walls. That is a significant fact when we are being told by some that xd6 will destroy the Earth because of the doubling effect. If Earth has 11700+ BODY, it will take that many d6's to destroy it. Equally obviously if each d6 makes the hole twice as big it will take far fewer d6 to vaporize our poor planet.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

You are correct, however the assertation that each +1 BODY damage to an object doubles the size of the hole applies only to walls. That is a significant fact when we are being told by some that xd6 will destroy the Earth because of the doubling effect. If Earth has 11700+ BODY, it will take that many d6's to destroy it. Equally obviously if each d6 makes the hole twice as big it will take far fewer d6 to vaporize our poor planet.

I opt for making it difficult to vaporize the planet; my sense of self preservation demands it

[Warp9]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

You are correct, however the assertation that each +1 BODY damage to an object doubles the size of the hole applies only to walls. That is a significant fact when we are being told by some that xd6 will destroy the Earth because of the doubling effect. If Earth has 11700+ BODY, it will take that many d6's to destroy it. Equally obviously if each d6 makes the hole twice as big it will take far fewer d6 to vaporize our poor planet.

 

Based on its mass, Earth should have no more than 100 BODY. And 200 Body would destroy it.

[Arthur]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

is not my strongest suit) that gives Earth 137,000,000 cubic game inches, of which the square root of is 11726.0394. So wouldn't that mean it would take over 11,000d6 to destroy the Earth?

 

 

 

Not quite. For a geometric progression, you take the logarithm to the base in question. In this case, it is the logarithm to the base of 2.

 

Assuming your figure of 1.37E8 cubic hexes is correct, you take the LOG2 of it. For this purpose, all you need is the nearest integer value, rounded up.

 

Since 2^20 is a bit over 1 million (as in Megabyte), 137 million is about 2^25 or just a bit more. 26 BODY sounds awfully low even for a geometric progression, so there's probably an incorrect assumption in there somewhere.

 

This reminds me of "Nuko the Atomic Wizard", an exercise in number-crunching in FH. By buying down every stat possible, and using all his points (about 220), a 150-point FH wizard could, by using every Limitation available, build a Power of about 3000 Active Points. I remember designing it with AE Radius until it got to Earth-size. I vaguely recall it being about 80d Killing. We calculated it would vaporize the Earth's crust down to a depth of about forty meters or so. Perhaps a few lichens would survive in caverns somewhere.

 

So it sounds like there's some other assumptions that need to be made to destroy a planet.

 

Why I am trying to be coherent at 1 AM I dunno... Maybe I'll get ambitious and figure it up tomorrow.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Not to quibble, and as a complete non sequitir, but according to the X Universe the center of the Earth is composed of Vibranium and is actually a nascent/embryonic Celestial. Thats also why, in the X Universe, Galactus goes around "eating planets"; he's absorbing the Celestial embryo's in a long running war with the Celestials. As an aside to an aside, Galactus is also really Franklin Richards. As a tangent to an aside to an aside, who really cares how many DC's of damage is a doubling of force or KE or whatever? Its either enough damage to do the trick, not enough, or too much and its all relative to the target.

 

Linear or Exponential, either my defenses are enough to bounce your attack or they arent and I take some damage.

 

Particular weapons are just SFX.

 

There is nothing systemic keeping a character from making a 10d6 RKA and calling it a .38 Special. Its just a SFX with which to impart damage. The fact that the 'default' .38 Special that is available as equipment in a Heroic campaign is significantly less lethal than that means slightly less than nothing. The presented weaps are for comparison purposes only. Any GM could chuck the whole thing in favor of a completely altered chart.

 

Basically, it could read "Tiny Gun Xd6 K", +Yd6 K per Order of Magnitude (rated as Small, Average, Big, Huge, Massive, etc), or anything else. The amount of damage weapons do in terms of effectiveness is only measurable within the context of who/what the target is.

 

Besides, everyone knows that in the HERO System its the STUN that will get you 9 times out of 10

 

IMO, YMMV.....

Don't spoil a good argument with logic.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Warp9

While I agree that there are some strong arguments to make for damage being linear, there are other reasons than the Strength Chart to lead one to the conclusion that damage is exponential.

 

1) Mass is exponential with regard to Body--every doubling of mass adds 1 body. Also Every +1 body will double the size of a hole made in an object.

 

Fact: each DC of normal damage will, on average, do +1 Body.

 

And thus a 25d6 EB will make a hole (on average) 32 times larger than a 20d6 EB. Or a 25d6 EB will (on average) cut through 32 times as much material with each shot.

 

The mathematics of +1 Body per each doubling of mass means that a 200d6 EB can destroy the Earth, that being the case, it is hard to argue that damage is _not_ exponential.

 

2) The Kinetic Energy of the fire arm table supports the logic that +1 DC = twice the energy. (.50 HMG = 3d6K)

 

3) The standard system for determining velocity damage is linear. However, starting on page 292 of FREd there is an optional Velocity damage table that turns velocity damage from a linear pattern to a exponential pattern based on kinetic energy. KE = 1/2 Mass X (velocity^2), thus every time you double in speed you get 4 times the KE, thus +2 Velocity Factor, and thus +2 DC (at least for most cases).

 

Right at the beginning of the optional velocity damage section, it says that this new optional system is "useful for gamers who (a) would prefer a more realistic system for determining velocity damage. . ." Why would the new system be more realistic, if damage were meant to be linear? On page 292, it is indicated that the normal system of linear velocity damage is in place for reasons of simplicity rather than realism.

 

Again, I still agree that there are arguments to be made in favor of linear damage. But I feel that there are many reasons, other than the Strength Chart, for arguing that damage is exponential.

Whooh! Where were you when Trebuchet and I danced before? That is some mighty stuff there Trebuchet.

[Agent X]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

I opt for making it difficult to vaporize the planet; my sense of self preservation demands it

Are you... confusing... yourself with your... characters.