Official conversions

[tenebre]

are there any magazines etc with official conversions for marvel, DC or whatever heroes?

 

I would really like to see The Flash in the hero system.

 

Yes i do realize i could jsut make them all, but i wondered if maybe they had been made already. Any edition is fine with me.

[Chaosliege]

Re: Official conversions

 

Originally posted by tenebre

are there any magazines etc with official conversions for marvel, DC or whatever heroes?

 

I would really like to see The Flash in the hero system.

 

Yes i do realize i could jsut make them all, but i wondered if maybe they had been made already. Any edition is fine with me.

 

I don't think there are any magazines with something like that, because publishing it would be copyright infringement. There are however, several web sites out there that are dedicated to posting Marvel and DC write-ups. I dont remember the name of it, but there was even a thread on these boards somewhere that had write-ups of the entire justice legue.

[Monolith]

The were two issues of the Adventurer's Club in the early 80s which had conversion for Marvel Superheroes and DC Heroes. I think they were between issues 2 and 6 but I will not swear to it. I think someone took the Marvel conversion and put it on a website. You can probably find it if you do a search on google.

[Supreme]

As Chaosliege mentioned, it would be copyright infringement for HERO to publish "official" conversions of characters. And Marvel and DC both have their own RPGs, so allowing such conversions would undermine their own games, and violate any contract that they had with the game-makers. Of course someone could easily sit down and work out system-to-system conversions based upon what each games stats are supposed to mean in real terms (i.e., to lift 100 tons is a 60 STR in HERO, but in Marvel RPG its...). Of course you may want to base a character's write up on the most recent "Universe" book from DC or Marvel (I think DC's "Universe" book was called "Who's Who"). I would trust such a conversion over what's published in one of the other RPG books, as the people who write those are not necessarily die-hard enthusiasts like the rest of us.

 

My problem with most of the write-ups I've seen is that the older and more beloved the character is, the more insane the write-up. I'm sorry, I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I just do not believe that Batman has a 30 DEX. That is 4x the human limit (with the doubling every 5 points rule). 20 DEX with 8 overall levels, sure. But not 30.

[Monolith]

The webpage which has the Marvel Superheroes conversion is here:

 

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nova/1996/marvel1.html

 

I did not find anything on the DC Heroes game from the "official" conversion.

[tenebre]

you are right.. i jsut got the first 10 adventururs club mags in the mail today.. i will look through them

 

i agree batman shuld have a 20 DEX tops. but you can plenty give him stuff to make up for it

[Monolith]

Originally posted by Supreme

I'm sorry, I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I just do not believe that Batman has a 30 DEX. That is 4x the human limit (with the doubling every 5 points rule). 20 DEX with 8 overall levels, sure. But not 30.

Consider yourself flamed.

 

Also keep in mind that the human limit in the CU is 30, not 20.

[nblade]

Originally posted by Supreme

 

My problem with most of the write-ups I've seen is that the older and more beloved the character is, the more insane the write-up. I'm sorry, I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I just do not believe that Batman has a 30 DEX. That is 4x the human limit (with the doubling every 5 points rule). 20 DEX with 8 overall levels, sure. But not 30. [/b]

 

Well I've had a problem with most of the write-ups I've seen for a simliar reason. I think many people give them higher stats than have especially in the SPD arena. Or they try to give them every "power stunt" that they have ever done as a power. I guess that's why I always like the Project 250 (now defunct due to obvisous reasons).

[Law Dog]

Of cousrse there is also the counterpoint that waged for hundreds of posts on the old boards that Batman isn't really a normal and even if you do classify him as a normal, that he doesn't need to fit the stats for a normal.

 

Nice thing about Champions is that there are many roads to get to Rome on. You can create a very valid Batman and still keep his stats all under 20 if you wish. You just start loading up non-power powers like Dex Drain versus hand-to-hand opponent, only benefits Batman (to simulate how Batman is the superior martial artist) and put his utility belt on a cosmic power pool (to simulate how he was fortunate enough to put exactly what he needed in the belt that morning).

 

The key is to remember that you're trying to simulate Batman how he is portrayed in the comics, not how he would operate in the real world.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Monolith

Also keep in mind that the human limit in the CU is 30, not 20.

 

Depends on ones point of view. If you look in CKC you find very few that have DEX at 30 and none over.

 

Most of those with that high a dex are aliens or mutants. DR D has a 30 but that can be argued as his armor.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Law Dog

The key is to remember that you're trying to simulate Batman how he is portrayed in the comics, not how he would operate in the real world.

 

True..In the comics it is said that Batman knows every form of Martial Arts known to man. This is quite impossible unless you several hundred years old.

 

While it might be possible to know the basic form, Kung Fu, it would be impossible to know every subform, Dragon, Tiger Claw etc, of every form of martial arts..

 

The Marvel Handbook will be useful in write ups. The DC won't I have both. Marvel will tell you how much the can lit, DCs merely says that they are super strong

[Monolith]

Originally posted by tiger

Depends on ones point of view. If you look in CKC you find very few that have DEX at 30 and none over.

This has to do more with character concept than anything else. In CKC it also has to do with the fact that they are villains and should not always be greater than the PCs who will be fighting them. As I said above, this is why you will see a lot more 20 or 23 or 26 DEX scores as opposed to 21, 24, and 27. It gives the PCs the "initiative" edge.

 

If you take a look at Nighthawk, Shugoshin, Green Dragon, and Cheshire Cat you will see that they are all "starting level" martial artists with DEX scores in the 24-27 range. A 30 is clearly a pinnacle score that few starting level characters should have, but that does not mean that a 450 point example of all the above characters will not have it.

 

Also keep in mind that Steve Long designed the Lightning Reflexes talent and clearly favors it in his character designs.

[MisterVimes]

I noticed back when those issues first came out that a straight conversion of DC Heoes and Marvel SHRPG resulted in similar DC characters having DEX about 10 points higher than Marvel and SPD 2 points higher than marvel

 

Comparing Hawkeye to Green Arrow for example.

I usually ended up raiing the Marvel sharacters 5 DEX and 1 SPD and lowering the DC Heroes 5 DEX and 1 SPD and they seemed to balance at that point.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Monolith

Also keep in mind that Steve Long designed the Lightning Reflexes talent and clearly favors it in his character designs.

 

Again one way to look at it. Another way is to see how silly it is for heroes or villians to have a base 11+ OCV/DCV/ECV. When you add in levels and such it gets a bit ridiculous.

 

A lower dex hero or villian with lightning refelxes still allows them to move more quickly because of their "agility". Thus forgoing the need of extremely high dex.

 

It's all depends on ones point of view and the "levels" one wants to play at.

 

Also, just because a character isn't 400+ doesnt' mean they are starting level characters. All the characters you mention could easily be experience heros who started at a lower point level. Again, just depends on ones point of view, everyones tastes and champaigns run a different. The beauty of this game over some others.

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by tiger

True..In the comics it is said that Batman knows every form of Martial Arts known to man. This is quite impossible unless you several hundred years old.

 

While it might be possible to know the basic form, Kung Fu, it would be impossible to know every subform, Dragon, Tiger Claw etc, of every form of martial arts..

 

 

Again, this is a case being too literal. Batman, as presented, never fights by using any specific form. He's just kicking ass and taking names. Maybe the closest thing that his combat style would be compaired to would be Jeet Kune Do.

 

And, of course, in the land of comic books, a person could have mastered every known form of martial arts if the author said they did because - - - It's Fiction.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Law Dog

And, of course, in the land of comic books, a person could have mastered every known form of martial arts if the author said they did because - - - It's Fiction.

 

Yep and why in one book they can easily do one thing and then can't possibly do it in another.

 

 

Originally posted by Tiger

Another way is to see how silly it is for heroes or villians to have a base 11+

Monolith: I merely meant how silly it seems to me, was not inferring anyone is being silly by using high DEX in anyway.

Just wanted to clear that up in case;)

[Monolith]

Originally posted by tiger

Monolith: I merely meant how silly it seems to me, was not inferring anyone is being silly by using high DEX in anyway.

Just wanted to clear that up in case;)

No problem. I understood.

 

The reason for buying higher DEX scores over Levels and Lightning Reflexes come down to nothing but simpler math. For example:

 

Batman: 24 DEX, 6 SPD, +6 Lightning Reflexes (all), +5 Combat Levels. Total cost: 107 points. Maximum OCV: 13 Maximum DCV: 13 Average CV: 11/10

 

Batman: 30 DEX, 6 SPD, +3 Combat Levels. Total Cost: Total Cost: 104 points. Maximum OCV: 13 Maximum DCV: 13 Average CV: 12/11

 

The second version of Batman is just as CV versatile but has a better average CV, meaning he will get hit less and hit others more often. All of this for 3 less character points. The second Batman could even buy 2 less Combat Levels and still have the same Average CV as the first one; but would then have saved the character 19 points.

 

As long as the characteristic maximum DEX for normal humans is 30, it is better for them in the long run to buy up the DEX than to spend the points on the Levels and Lightning Reflexes.

[ogier300]

But your second version of Batman describes a different character than your first. The first version is a highly trained man who's focussed on training himself for combat. The second version is a man with raw talent that has a bit of fighting experience. Which matches the typical description of Batman?

 

Sometimes the character you're building shouldn't be efficient.

 

Also, I'm working on an Iron Man conversion:

 

http://members.shaw.ca/ogier/forgeiron.htm

 

I welcome comments.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by ogier300

But your second version of Batman describes a different character than your first. The first version is a highly trained man who's focussed on training himself for combat. The second version is a man with raw talent that has a bit of fighting experience. Which matches the typical description of Batman?

See, I disagree. IMO, the second version shows a man who has trained himself beyond the limits of normal humanity to be a fighting machine. He is not limited by a particular style or skill. He has honed himself to be the physical master of them all.

 

If a character is born to have a 30 DEX he is most likely a mutant. If an accident gives him a 30 DEX is most likely and altered human. If he trains himself to have a 30 DEX he is the master of his domain.

[tiger]

Originally posted by Monolith

If a character is born to have a 30 DEX he is most likely a mutant. If an accident gives him a 30 DEX is most likely and altered human. If he trains himself to have a 30 DEX he is the master of his domain.

 

I agree completely, I just don't see the need for going over 30. I think a base OCV/DCV/ECV of 10 is plenty. I use this in my campaigns regardless of power level. Of course I also enforce it on my villains as well, only fair.

[Monolith]

Originally posted by tiger

I agree completely, I just don't see the need for going over 30. I think a base OCV/DCV/ECV of 10 is plenty. I use this in my campaigns regardless of power level. Of course I also enforce it on my villains as well, only fair.

I don't let any "normal" go over 30 either. Once and awhile I will let a speedster bump a little higher, but for the most part 30 is my cap. I am basically just trying to follow the guidelines in Champions Universe as much as possible.

[TheEmerged]

We got onto the "Batman has a DEX of 20" argument again?

[Law Dog]

Originally posted by TheEmerged

We got onto the "Batman has a DEX of 20" argument again?

 

It will be with us for the better part of this century.

[Chaosliege]

I read in one of the posts that Batman is suposed to be a master of all kung fu styles. That's not what I read. There was an article a few years ago(I dont remember where) that compared super martial artists between DC and Marvel(primarily Cap and Batman). In this article it said Batman uses the Jeet kun do(sp) style.

 

Also keep in mind that just because Hero says 20 is max human doesn't mean you can't go above that. You can, you just pay for it. In our games we made a Cap writup that had a 23 dex. not overly high, but still above max human. He also paid 18pts for that extra 3 dex, because as a "peak human" he had NCM as a disadvantage.

 

He also had like 8 overall levels if I remember corectly.

 

My biggest issue with guys like Cap and Batman being limited to NCM rules is the SPD. Some would argue that 4 SPD is plenty and that if all the guys in your group have 5 or higher, they sre just overpowered. I dissagree, mainly because I dont think I've ever seen a guy in the Classic enimies book( I dont have CKC) with less than a 4 SPD, and those were the ultra strong and slow moving bricks. 5 is average and 6 isn't unheard of. Again, you could make Cap's or batman's SPD higher, but that's why our write-ups were always over 600 points.

[Zeropoint]

This is an issue that's been bugging me for a while now: most superheroes, at least in roleplaying games, are better in EVERY respect than their normal counterparts, even if their powers shouldn't logically affect those areas.

 

Using _Champions_ as an example, we have Pulsar, who despite being identified as a high-school dropout, is of exactly average intelligence (or maybe above-average--is 8 still the "average" value for a stat?) and Witchcraft, who, even though her training was in mental/spiritual fields, has a DEX of 20, giving her Olympic-level agility. Maybe it's some kind of permanent enchantment.

 

Why does having energy manipulating powers make you more agile? Why does having the strength to lift a bus make you smarter? Why does being a super-genius make you better-looking?

 

I can understand a wholly self-made hero like Batman being better all around, but for the most part, even a hero who gets her powers from some freakish accident isn't a normal person with a power set added--if she's an RPG character, she was _already_ smarter, faster, stronger, better-looking, tougher, and more mentally stable than her peers. The fact that she can now fly and shoot firebolts is just gravy.

 

SPD is a particular sticking point here. Looking at _Champions_ again, EVERYONE has at least 5 SPD. The slowest person here can act two and a half times faster than the average human!

 

Now that I think about it, this could be explained two ways. First, as stat inflation. I don't know if there is any response to this other than to accept it and redefine what an "average" stat really is. Second, as the "zero-level NPC" viewpoint, in which dramatically unimportant characters are actually assumed to be inferior in all respects to the main characters. Will this lead to increased alienation between the PC's and the rest of the world? Who knows.

 

I'm either thinking about this too much, or not enough.

 

Zeropoint