L. Marcus Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Hunter's Lore: +4 w. Bows vs. Targeting, Animals Only (-½), Only Versus Surprised Targets (-½), Vitals Only (loc. 13; -1/4); 4 Real Points This should drop a deer with one shot, and severely Stun a boar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Let's not forget that levels could be added as DCs also. So if you really want to encourage players to be 'true' fighters have them buy some blasted levels. That is what they are there for after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Hunter's Lore: +4 w. Bows vs. Targeting, Animals Only (-½), Only Versus Surprised Targets (-½), Vitals Only (loc. 13; -1/4); 4 Real Points This should drop a deer with one shot, and severely Stun a boar. Try killing a buffalo with a 2d6 Hero canon buffalo rifle. An average damage roll won't mortally wound it even on the vitals. And a buffalo rifle historically only has one shot, so it recovers from being stunned while you reload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hancock.tom Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: FH Gripes This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in quite a while. I stopped allowing deadly blow without some limitations that really balanced it out and the more I run FH the more I think Combat Luck needs a little tweaking too... just not nearly as much as deadly blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Hit Locations 'nough said QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: FH Gripes This is one of the most interesting threads I've read in quite a while. I stopped allowing deadly blow without some limitations that really balanced it out and the more I run FH the more I think Combat Luck needs a little tweaking too... just not nearly as much as deadly blow. Combat luck is OK, in my experience, as long as you don't allow it to combine with armour - and we've been using it for decades, so if there were any real abuse potential, I suspect we would have found it. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Hmm. That's a thought. My current campaign, I allowed stacking. We haven't run into many problems with DEF. Our DEF maxes out at about 8, with 50 AP powers and guns out of DC. It's not unusual for the characters to be running around with BODY. It's actually just about EXACTLY the effect I wanted. ALthough for us, the main difference is that Combat Luck is paid for in Character Points and armour is paid for in Resource Points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: FH Gripes I don't allow Combat Luck to stack with armor. TO me, it's a way of simulating the genre convention of the lightly armed fighter who doesn't get hacked to bits in their first combat (Conan, Red Sonja, John Carter, etc.) I use a very abstract armor system in which the pieces worn are entirely special effect. You reference the DEF and Activation on a table, and that gives you a set penalty to DCV and Dex-based rolls. If you have a DEF 6 on and ACT of 12-, but are only wearing a pair of bracers, then you are just really good at blocking blows with them. Deadly Blow should be reserved for very specific classes, not broad ones. "Evil" is so generic, it's pointless. Most opponents will be evil. "Trolls" would be much better. "Giant sized creatures" is too broad. "Storm Giants" is better. Further, I would never let it be taken with a class of weapon, unless it was something like "knife" or another piddly weapon that seems to be especially deadly in the hands of a character from books or movies. I rarely track muscle-powered END, but try to design characters who are reasonably END efficient. If fatigue is critical to an encounter, I track it. But I certainly don't mark down the END use for 20 mooks and don't require my players to either. END use for magic is something else entirely. That's one of the standard controls I use. So far, it hasn't been a problem. For the record, atlascott, I never found your tone to be confrontational or unreasonable. You came off as someone having trouble with the system and seeking aid. The solutions being suggested give you problems because implementing rule-changes mid-campaign is always difficult. Obviously you will need to explain to your players the problem and take a hard stance. If you don't feel your players are the type who would take a re-design well, you'll probably need to re-design the campaign to a higher-fantasy style and increase the level of opposition. Keith "my 2¢" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Hunter's Lore: +4 w. Bows vs. Targeting, Animals Only (-½), Only Versus Surprised Targets (-½), Vitals Only (loc. 13; -1/4); 4 Real Points This should drop a deer with one shot, and severely Stun a boar. You cannot shoot a deer in the vitals. It will ruin the meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted April 9, 2007 Report Share Posted April 9, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Deadly Blow should be reserved for very specific classes, not broad ones. "Evil" is so generic, it's pointless. Most opponents will be evil. "Trolls" would be much better. "Giant sized creatures" is too broad. "Storm Giants" is better. Further, I would never let it be taken with a class of weapon, unless it was something like "knife" or another piddly weapon that seems to be especially deadly in the hands of a character from books or movies. Or if it is tied to a specific weapon that gives the ability when wielded (Holy Avenger) against "Evil". Deadly Blow could also be set on charges or with a limited time (keeping with the Paladin theme here). "Holy Wrath", Deadly Blow, Any Attack, 1 Charge, Charge recovers when character prays at appropriate altar for an hour. "Infused Vindication", Deadly Blow, Melee Attacks Only, 1 Charge Lasting 1 Turn, Charge recovers when character makes sacrifice of fresh Moon Lilies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes I don't allow Combat Luck to stack with armor. TO me, it's a way of simulating the genre convention of the lightly armed fighter who doesn't get hacked to bits in their first combat (Conan, Red Sonja, John Carter, etc.) Never thought of that. Thanks from the peanut gallery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zindil Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Deadly blow is not a talent that should be used for all fantasy games. However, it isn't hopelessly broken either. It is an option that a gm should thoughtfully consider before letting it in a campaign. In an epic high fantasy game, deadly blow, in various flavors, can be very appropriate. In most campaigns, especially low fantasy, the gm shouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Just because it does not work in all games, does not mean it isn't a viable option to consider in a new game. I personally do not like variable power pools to simulate magic in a fantasy game for balance reasons, for others a vpp is the only way they will do it. As with a lot of the Hero System, just because a few don't like it doesn't mean it is "wrong" and shouldn't be included in the book. And as rapier said, a gm really needs to review all characters to make sure they are in line with the campaign. That alone can prevent abuse of a talent like deadly blow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes You cannot shoot a deer in the vitals. It will ruin the meat.I read "Vitals" to also include heart- and lungshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes I read "Vitals" to also include heart- and lungshots. IIRC, "vitals" is HERO's polite way of refering to a shot to the unmentionables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsider Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes Since a breastplate in FH doesnt protect the 'vitals' I've read it much the same, though more as the concentration of major arteries/veins & nerves in the 'unmentionable' area than the 'unmentionables' themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes I love it when you say 'unmentionables.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes I read "Vitals" to also include heart- and lungshots. That's my preferred interpretation as well. I dislike the 'huhhuhhuh he got ya in the vitals" immaturity that comes along with the alternative interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes It's all down to situation, GM, player and SF/X. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes I always considered Vitals as meaning coming from below and bypassing the ribcage. Where below is is a matter of SFX. It could be a kidney shot, low blow, or being impaled on a spike or anything in between. The end result tends to be about the same. Well maybe not exactly the same, but you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes I read "Vitals" to also include heart- and lungshots. 5Er page 415: "Vitals" is defined as any particularly delicate or vulnerable area on the body: this can include the groin, the heart, a large artery, or many other areas. The GM should choose whatever effects is most appropriate for the attack and the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes 5Er page 415: "Vitals" is defined as any particularly delicate or vulnerable area on the body: this can include the groin' date=' the heart, a large artery, or many other areas. The GM should choose whatever effects is most appropriate for the attack and the situation.[/quote'] RIGHT IN THE JIMMIES!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes That's my preferred interpretation as well. I dislike the 'huhhuhhuh he got ya in the vitals" immaturity that comes along with the alternative interpretation. RIGHT IN THE JIMMIES!!!!!!! What can I possibly add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CourtFool Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes What can I possibly add? What if Wolfmen don't have nards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes What if Wolfmen don't have nards? Whoa! Wolfman's got nards!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMiller Posted April 10, 2007 Report Share Posted April 10, 2007 Re: FH Gripes This discussion keeps making me think of Grindhouse for some reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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