Cool Guns for your Games

[gewing]

Not sure this is going to be a "good" gun, but it is interesting.   VERY slim, .45 acp, semiauto.   Apparently a form of blowback, but delayed???

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/11/heizer-defense-pko-45-semi-automatic-pistol-now-shipping/

[pinecone]

Wow, that is some major engineering. A .45 that 007 could carry.

[Surrealone]

I've read about the Heizer PKO45's. The 8lb SA trigger is kind of a turn-off, but the 0.8" thickness is a selling point for those who want to pack .45 ACP in a slim package.  It will be interesting to see what the 9mm varietal's dimensions are, since modern 9mm single-stack offerings have been at the 0.9" thickness for nearly a decade, already.

[gewing]

I looked at the Kimber micro 9 with the laser grip yesterday. Boy did that feel sweet, the review I read did not give particularly good accuracy. More than good enough for the role it's designed for though. I wonder if it would be better served with a high velocity 90 grain bullet instead of standard weight bullets though? Maybe the 80 or 90 grain Barnes Tac XP design for the 380 originally?

[g3taso]

Ummm. I like gun porn as much as anyone (probably my time in service). I was wondering if when people are telling us about the wonders of the Roselli combat shotgun or whatever if they put gun write-ups up?

 

Is there writeups for guns?

[Old Man]

The granularity of Hero is unfortunately too great to really allow us to get into gun minutiae in game terms.  You can add an OCV or not, or a damage class, or cut the STR Min by a couple of points, or give a Concealment bonus.  I suppose having the basic stats for each could still be useful though.

[megaplayboy]

5 hours ago, Old Man said:

The granularity of Hero is unfortunately too great to really allow us to get into gun minutiae in game terms.  You can add an OCV or not, or a damage class, or cut the STR Min by a couple of points, or give a Concealment bonus.  I suppose having the basic stats for each could still be useful though.

Hero System Equipment Guide and Dark Champions going into extreme detail on various types of ammo, gun modifications, etc.  You could meaningfully distinguish, say, different 9mm pistols, provided there are substantial real-world differences between them(balance, sighting, ammo capacity, barrel length, weight, recoil handling, etc.)

[Surrealone]

17 hours ago, g3taso said:

Ummm. I like gun porn as much as anyone (probably my time in service). I was wondering if when people are telling us about the wonders of the Roselli combat shotgun or whatever if they put gun write-ups up?

 

Is there writeups for guns?

Nope, there are not people producing a running list of gun write-ups here just for kicks.

[Hyper-Man]

I've done a few obsessed write-ups (all the weapons used by Keanu Reeves in the first John Wick movie) and while they are hyper-detailed builds, with only a few exceptions the differences between brands of the weapons are minor compared to the concrete stuff like caliber, capacity, quality, etc...

[g3taso]

@Surreal, HMan  I get that, and perhaps I could have been more clear. I looked in equipment and found a nice gun or two including a nice AK47. It's the ammo that seems to be a problem. How do I account for the ammo? Have an entire list of ammo types if I'm one of those crazies with 20 varieties of ammo in some sort of multipower?  Makes me think an ammo VPP would be the way to go.

[Surrealone]

Well, since the Focus is typically the gun, the ammo usually ends up being nothing more than a special effect to properly represent the Charges/Jammed/Burnout limitation(s) as taken on the Focus.  As far as different ammo types on a Focus, that's usually represented by either a MP or a VPP on the Focus ... with Extra Time (half phase, only to activate) to switch slots or change the pool (to represent a magazine change to one holding different ammunition) ... and Charges on the slots or the specific VPP power (to represent only so much ammunition of a given type within the magazine(s) represented by Charges on the slot or VPP power).  Many a GM will allow Fast Draw to apply to the Extra Time ... since it represents a magazine change (and since Fast Draw is capable of mitigating the usual half phase mag change).

 

But to be fair, there's really not a huge variety of ammunition for most small arms.  Caliber tends to dictate capacity (since bigger rounds take up more space and weigh more) ... and once the caliber is chosen, capacity only varies based on how much extra weight/bulk you want to carry in terms of magazines.  i.e. It's not like there are a plenthora of options to choose from within most given calibers.  I can't just run out and buy .45 ACP armor piercing rounds ... or .45 ACP incendiary rounds ... or .45 ACP penetrating rounds ... or .45 ACP explosive rounds.  Instead, my choices are basically: wad cutter, full metal jacket, hollow point, and match grade ... with a special note for tracer rounds.

 

Using the .45 ACP example, in game terms, full metal jacket is likely the de facto standard on which the .45 pistol's damage is centered (which I'll express as Xd6 RKA) -- i.e. no delta and nothing special about those rounds.  Hollow points probably takes that .45 ACP from Xd6 RKA to Xd6+1 RKA ... while wad cutter/match grade are geared for competition shooting (the former intended for punching very clean holes in paper ... while the latter is constructed for improved ballistic coefficient/aerodynamics) ... and, thus, each is probably something closer to Xd6-1 RKA in terms of output.

 

Regarding the tracer rounds I mentioned:

There -are- tracer rounds, but they tend to be available only in calibers commonly used by the military -- are spendy -- and are tough for non-military folks to get because they're just not that common.  These guys sacrifice pretty much all of their damage by burning their material as they fly -- to allow the user of the Focus to roughly see where s/he is shooting. By and large they are used as either training aids (for night ops training) or are staggered (as in every 3rd or 5th round) in magazines (or belts) of autofire weapons that are intended for high volume shooting at night -- to help improve night shooting accuracy (via night shooting penalty reductions; I'd represent tracers with PSLs to offset penalties imposed by natural darkness - that only work at night or in similar situations)  .... when/where FLIR is not available.  They also have the side effect of giving away the shooter's position -- so no using Stealth with tracer rounds at night once the shooting starts.

 

Additional note:

Bullet weight (heavier versus lighter) within a given caliber doesn't tend to mean harder hits ... instead, it tends to be a tradeoff between speed/trajectory and wind resistance of given caliber bullets.  i.e. A lighter bullet of a given caliber shoots faster and flatter than a heavier one of the same caliber ... but a heavier one of the same caliber is not as affected by the wind and retains more of its energy at longer distances than its faster/lighter brothers of the same caliber.  Thus, I don't see stun multipliers or BODY damage changes as germane to the bullet weight conversation within a given caliber, since bullet weight within a given caliber choice is mostly about accuracy under certain circumstances ... and we're talking a +1 to offset range/wind modifiers, tops here ... only at and between very specific range thresholds for given calibers (i.e. immaterial at short distances for given calibers).

 

See where this is going?  Most of the real meat/potatoes of guns are in:

• caliber choice -- which will tend to dictate damage output
• optic choice -- which will tend to offset range penalties
• quality choice - which will tend to dictate whether the focus has an activation/jammed/burnout roll
• slop (i.e. tolerance) - this one's kind of weird and represents a tradeoff between accuracy and reliability.  The AK-47 is a great example, you can let it get dirty, treat it badly, and it will be super reliable despite its low quality and cost ... but to do this it has sloppy/loose tolerances that result in a less accurate firearm than, say, the M16 (when it is clean, anyway).  You can tighten those tolerances, of course ... and when you do so, you'll sacrifice reliability to gain back some accuracy.

 

Now if you want to go crazy and make up a bunch of guff (akin to Green Arrow's quiver of totally ridiculous arrows) ... then you'll basically be creating a pile of totally ridiculous ammo for your game -- i.e. stuff that's just not out here in the real world.  A great example would be the tranquilizer bullet (from the XXX movie) ... or the splatter dart bullet (from the same movie).  That's bogus stuff for Hollywood's sake.  Sure, there are tranquilizer guns ... but they are specialized guns with specialized darts ... that use blanks or compressed air to propel the darts.  i.e. Someone didn't just pop some special ammo into a typical gun to get a tranquilizer round; they used a special gun with special darts.  (i.e. Different Focus, entirely...)

 

[Hyper-Man]

1 hour ago, g3taso said:

@Surreal, HMan  I get that, and perhaps I could have been more clear. I looked in equipment and found a nice gun or two including a nice AK47. It's the ammo that seems to be a problem. How do I account for the ammo? Have an entire list of ammo types if I'm one of those crazies with 20 varieties of ammo in some sort of multipower?  Makes me think an ammo VPP would be the way to go.

 

 

I'm not sure that I understand what you're trying to do.

 

The first thing we need is clarification on whether this is for a Heroic or Superheroic game. If the former then the detailed writeups are nice but not necessarily needed as equipment is not paid for directly with character points. All you really need are the stats.

 

If it IS for supers then more details on the special effect you are trying to model are needed.

[g3taso]

My poorly phrased question was answered ably by Surrealone. 

[Surrealone]

Today I bring you the latest F*ck You to the BATFE from FightLite Industries: the FightLite RAIDER. 

 

Practically useless in every defensive scenario I can think of, this little 7.5" barreled blaster comes in either 5.56 NATO or .300 BLK, with the latter being the obvious choice given the short barrel length.  Screw on a suppressor, slap in a 20 round magazine of .300 BLK, attach a sling to the QD port on the end of the grip (so it can be easily hung/concealed under a duster, trenchcoat, or the like), and your mooks will be the silent but deadly life of your heroic opposition's party.

[Zeropoint]

It's dumb but I kind of want one.

[Surrealone]

LOL. I'm on that page, too!  No practical use but I want it anyway ... for no good reason at all.  If only the bank account were bottomless...

[drrushing]

Quote

 

Today I bring you the latest F*ck You to the BATFE from FightLite Industries: the FightLite RAIDER. 

Why? Because I can, that's why...lol

[Surrealone]

Here's another solution in search of a problem in the real world... but something potentially cool for gaming use.

 

 

[gewing]

On 12/26/2017 at 4:11 PM, Surrealone said:

Today I bring you the latest F*ck You to the BATFE from FightLite Industries: the FightLite RAIDER. 

 

Practically useless in every defensive scenario I can think of, this little 7.5" barreled blaster comes in either 5.56 NATO or .300 BLK, with the latter being the obvious choice given the short barrel length.  Screw on a suppressor, slap in a 20 round magazine of .300 BLK, attach a sling to the QD port on the end of the grip (so it can be easily hung/concealed under a duster, trenchcoat, or the like), and your mooks will be the silent but deadly life of your heroic opposition's party.

In some states like Washington with a concealed weapons permit you can carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle but not a rifle or shotgun. In my opinion that is exactly the role that weapons like this or the Kel-Tec PLR-16 fill.  and I agree that the blackout is the better choice for such weapons

[Surrealone]

8 hours ago, gewing said:

In some states like Washington with a concealed weapons permit you can carry a loaded handgun in a vehicle but not a rifle or shotgun. In my opinion that is exactly the role that weapons like this or the Kel-Tec PLR-16 fill.  and I agree that the blackout is the better choice for such weapons

Hey, I think you identified a niche for the pistol that I wasn't aware of.  Thanks for that.  Sadly, though, I see that niche as bass ackwards -- but I'm probably biased.

[Old Man]

If you were a billionaire supervillain, what would your company make?

 

 

[Surrealone]

That's not exactly supervillainous considering that flamethrowers are not (to my knowledge) federally regulated.  I believe only 1 or 2 states have restrictions/prohibitions on them, as well (i.e. I think they're 48- or 49-state legal.)

[IndianaJoe3]

On 12/26/2017 at 7:11 PM, Surrealone said:

Today I bring you the latest F*ck You to the BATFE from FightLite Industries: the FightLite RAIDER. 

 

Practically useless in every defensive scenario I can think of, this little 7.5" barreled blaster comes in either 5.56 NATO or .300 BLK, with the latter being the obvious choice given the short barrel length.  Screw on a suppressor, slap in a 20 round magazine of .300 BLK, attach a sling to the QD port on the end of the grip (so it can be easily hung/concealed under a duster, trenchcoat, or the like), and your mooks will be the silent but deadly life of your heroic opposition's party.

 

TFB had a video where this was described as, "tactical Jack Sparrow." Sounds about right.

[Old Man]

Your handgun needs more bayonet

[st barbara]

Nayonets on handguns are fine bit it needs more knuckle duster handle as well !