Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

Hey howdy, Herophiles! It's time for another one of our fan input threads. At bat this time -- the summer's big release, Post-Apocalyptic Hero!

 

PAH of course focuses on post-apocalyptic stories and settings -- think, to provide just a few examples, of The Road Warrior, novels like The Stand, Lucifer's Hammer, or Hiero's Journey, and TV shows such as Thundarr the Barbarian, Jericho, and Ark II. In terms of prior roleplaying game art, we're talking about Gamma World, Aftermath, The Morrow Project, some aspects of Car Wars and All Flesh Must Be Eaten, and so on. I've spent the past year immersing myself in this stuff, and now it's time to start writing!

 

Here's a brief outline of what the book will contain:

 

Chapter One: The Genre: As usual for our genre books, we're going to review the elements, themes, and tropes of the PA genre; the subtypes of PA settings; crossing PA with other genres, example equipment, and so on.

 

Chapter Two: Character Creation: This chapter discusses special considerations for creating PA characters. It will include Package Deals, notes on various game elements and how they function in the genre, and so on.

 

Chapter Three: GMing: This chapter delves into PA campaign creation, running PA games, and all that other fun GMing stuff.

 

Chapter Four: PA Sourcebook: Since, like with Ninja Hero, we don't plan to produce supplements for PAH, we're going to include some example settings and related source material. Current plans for this chapter include: Amrica (a Low PA setting [no mutants, high tech, or magic] inspired by such stories as the Pelbar Cycle novels, the Piers Anthony novel Battle Circle, and the movie The Road Warrior); After The Blast (a High PA setting filled with mutants, radiation-spawned powers, high tech from the pre-Blast world, and the like; it will include a large section of sample Mutation powers); the Moonshattered World (a High PA setting in which magic has returned to mix with the technology of the Ancients, inspired by Thundarr the Barbarian, the Fred Saberhagen novel Empire of the East, and similar sources); Darren's zombie apocalypse setting; Darren's religious apocalypse setting; Jason's setting Destinations (a Low PA campaign focused on issues of survival and "trek to safety"), and more.

 

So that's PAH in a nutshell. What would y'all like to see in the book?

[OddHat]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Not sure how useful this will be for what you have in mind, but what interests me most in these books is always the settings.

 

So, I'd like the following points touched on:

 

1) At least a small group of sample PCs and a larger group of NPCs (including but not exclusively enemies) for each setting.

 

2) A powers and superskills listing for Post Apocalypse gaming, with a discussion on how to keep the flavor of Mutations, Sorcery, Ancient / Alien Technology, and Superskills separate.

 

3) A discussion of genre mix and mash in post apocalypse settings; David Gemmell "Jon Shannow" style Post Apocalypse Western with Magic, Escape from Vampire Plagued New York, etc. This could include a half dozen mini-settings, Champions in 3D style.

 

4) A discussion of the distinctions between a post apocalypse setting and a dystopia, where and how they intersect ("Zardoz", "A Boy and His Dog", "Logan's Run").

[Comic]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A brief listing of other subgenres and resources in an appendix? E.g.: H.G. Wells Time Machine, Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times (industrialization, not war, as the apocalypse), George Orwell's 1984, Huxley's Brave New World, Sagal's Omega Man, Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's Tale, and not to leave out the Malthusian apocalypses: Silent Running, Make Room! Make Room!, Soylent Green, Firefly/Serenity, the 70's tv series 'The Starlost', ..

[Steve Long]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Comic -- while I do intend to have my own Bibliography and Filmography, beyond its confines I think I can save myself time and effort by referring people here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apocalyptic_and_post-apocalyptic_fiction

 

 

I just wish I had time to read all those books and see all those movies.

[Comic]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

..or.. that.. sure.

[OddHat]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

 

I just wish I had time to read all those books and see all those movies.

 

Where possible, use the 30 Second versions: http://www.angryalien.com/

 

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Since the book is going to be dealing with more realistic PA scenarios, I'd really like a little treatment of some of the long-term effects of the end of modern civilization. Nothing scholarly, just enough so that interested parties can develop a logical timeline.

 

For example, what happens to infrastructure (steel and concrete, water, gas, power and communication lines) when they're no longer being maintained, and how long does the deterioration take? What if they become covered in water? How long do canned and dried food, ammunition, medicines, and fuels like gasoline remain viable? At what rate does forest or jungle typically reclaim an inhabited area, and ruins become covered by sand or soil?

 

What are the likely effects on the environment from sudden massive disasters, such as global nuclear war or asteroid impact, and for how long would those effects linger? In the case of a nuclear holocaust, what are the real-world effects of radiation, and how long does a given area remain radioactive and dangerous? Some mention of the probable results of global warming would also be timely.

 

EDIT: and if your list of sources doesn't include Wasteland HERO and The Savage Earth I shall be very cross.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The three types of settings I wanted to see are being covered, so these are my thoughts.

 

A sampling of the high PA powers/abilites (mutations, cyber ect).

 

A number of NPCs.

 

Perhaps a discussion on the fall - if the campaign set just after the collapse, a nice discourse on the fall of civilization, with differing example would be good, as well some advice on running a game where the collapse happens during play; Lucifer's Hammer and The Stand were mentioned, and part of what made those so great (IMO) were the bits with all the characters before, and during. (yeah I love disaster movies and that is sort of part of the genre).

[sbarron]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see various apolcalypses and the ramifications of each discussed.

 

Most PA setting assume a nuclear war. But you can also get there through pandemic, catastophic climate change, alien invasion, meteorite strike, etc. What's different in each setting? What makes it interesting? What's the kind of stories that would work in each? That kind of stuff...

[mattingly]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Some mention of a "Saturday morning cartoon" genre. Thundarr, He-Man, Thundercats, etc. How to run a light-hearted game in the ruins of an advanced civilization.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

First, a couple of times and places in the official Hero Universe could qualify as post-apoclayptic settings. Specifically, Tetsuo (from Worlds Of Empire would seem to qualify, especially if a campaign is set about a generation or two after its near-destruction; and the time right after the fall of Takofanes (at the end of the Turakian Age) could be modeled by just taking PAH for flavor, TA for magic and monsters, and VA for geography.

 

Also, the Shattered Earth I mention in this thread, a companion to the Space Wizards setting, was intended to be a Thundarr-styled post-apocalyptic setting. Just let the standard Hero Universe aliens stand in for the Moks, and there you go. (Though my vision of it has the Crowns of Krim, Arvad the Betrayer, and other really, really dark individuals wandering around during that time....)

 

Keith Curtis' Savage Earth setting is another that very effectively combines High Fantasy with Post-Apocalypse. In fact, I recall commenting to people when I fist saw it that here was a man who could show the rest of us How It Should Be Done.

 

On an unrelated note, I'd like to see some of the more unusual possibilities of monsters for a post-apocalyptic setting: radioactive dogs, fire-breathing squirrels, kaiju, and so forth.

 

I'll probably have a few more ideas as time goes by....

[Steve]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Character Creation: Please include discussions on how point levels should fit into the various genres. For example, a grittier, more realistic PAH setting I would like to see follow along the lines suggested in Valdorian Age (ie primary characteristics starting at 8 and more skill-based talents and fighting tricks instead of powers). A wilder, Gamma World-style setting could go into low-end superhumans (maybe with characteristic maximas set at 30 or 25 instead of 20).

 

Settings: You must include at least one homage to the "Planet of the Apes" somewhere among the various settings.

[Steve Long]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Character Creation: Please include discussions on how point levels should fit into the various genres.

 

[gentle, humorous sarcasm mode on]

I'm glad you reminded me, because in none of our other genre books have we ever bothered to suggest character point totals for different types of campaigns.

[gentle, humorous sarcasm mode off]

 

Yes, of course I'm going to cover that.

 

You must include at least one homage to the "Planet of the Apes" somewhere among the various settings.

 

Unfortunately I don't think we'll have room for that. I want to include it in the Filmography, because it definitely has PA elements, but it's not really in the "mainstream" of the genre so I don't want to focus on it that much.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see some exploration of the "run up" to the big kaboom. For instance, what was the world like in the high PA setting that led to all of the mutations? It's certain there were at least a few mutants running around. Perhaps there were things like genetic engineering and nanotech before the bomb.

 

I'd also like to see a "cryonically stored pre-bomb group re-emerges" scenario, and a "space colonies rediscover Earth after the bomb" scenario or at least a short writeup, maybe a few pages on this. (I always wanted to have a Star Frontiers exploration team discover Gamma World post-apocalyptic Earth!)

[Steve Long]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

[Lord Liaden's intelligent suggestions snipped]

 

Fortunately for humanity, we've never really suffered the sort of mass collapse of modern civilizations envisioned by PA fiction. The one downside to this is that AFAIK there are no good, solid answers to most of the questions you raise, LL. We don't know how long it takes modern concrete buildings to collapse, or cables to wear out, or what have you, because we've never gotten to see it happen.

 

To the extent that data exists at all, it's probably buried in engineering textbooks, and I don't have the time to dig it up and convert it to game-ese. At best I can hazard semi-educated guesses.

 

if your list of sources doesn't include Wasteland HERO and The Savage Earth I shall be very cross.

 

Alas, you shall have to be cross. I don't want to cite specific campaign sites or similar resources in a genre book, if for no other reason than I don't want to look like I'm officially "endorsing" something like that. I'd rather let people find those things on their own.

[nexus]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see at least a small section on making Hero "grittier" with rules for things like infection, disease, long term injury and possible ratching up the lethality of the basic combat system.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

P.S. Steve, I have a text file full of "bits" I wanted to use or at least keep in mind for a postapocalyptic Hero game; I can e-mail it to you or post it here if you want.

[Steve]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Character Creation: Please include discussions on how point levels should fit into the various genres. For example' date=' a grittier, more realistic PAH setting I would like to see follow along the lines suggested in Valdorian Age (ie primary characteristics starting at 8 and more skill-based talents and fighting tricks instead of powers). A wilder, Gamma World-style setting could go into low-end superhumans (maybe with characteristic maximas set at 30 or 25 instead of 20).[/quote']

 

[gentle' date= humorous sarcasm mode on]

I'm glad you reminded me, because in none of our other genre books have we ever bothered to suggest character point totals for different types of campaigns.

[gentle, humorous sarcasm mode off]

 

Yes, of course I'm going to cover that.

 

Sorry, I meant to say characteristic levels.

 

Grittier settings seem to fit better with lower primary characteristics in the 8-18 range. The wilder the setting, the higher the characteristics. Using skills, "fighting tricks" and super-skills instead of Powers should also get some mention in the lower-powered settings.

 

 

Settings: You must include at least one homage to the "Planet of the Apes" somewhere among the various settings.

 

Unfortunately I don't think we'll have room for that. I want to include it in the Filmography' date=' because it definitely has PA elements, but it's not really in the "mainstream" of the genre so I don't want to focus on it that much.[/quote']

 

Oh, I didn't mean a whole setting, but maybe a little mention in one of the ones you are creating about a civilization of intelligent apes among the other survivor cultures, where humans are treated as slaves.

[gregghelmberger]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

First of all, let me say that I am EXTREMELY geeked about this book, and I intend to buy it the first instant I can.

 

As far as suggestions go, one thing I'd like to see is a section on frequently-unconsidered consequences of a sudden, dramatic decrease in human population and the attendant collapse of infrastructure. For example, diabetics would run out of insulin and die, mere scratches can become lethal if infected, and a common cold can kill you if it turns into peneumonia. Likewise, assuming that the cause of the apocalypse didn't completely disrupt climate or cause massive ecological damage, the years following the apocalypse would see enormous boom-and-bust cycles of various fauna since the regulator of animal populations, humans, had been removed. Obviously there are a great many examples of this kind that are logical consequences of the collapse of civilization and the near-elimination of humanity but that most gamers don't know or don't think about. Having a wide selection of them gathered into one place can provide a lot of flavor to a campaign as well as serving as adventure seeds.

 

Another idea would be to take a selected few products that people in the post-apocalyptic setting would logically want -- firearms and ammunition, basic medicines, alcohol, electricity, etc. -- and talk about the infrastructure necessary to produce them. This wouldn't need to be an exhaustive catalogue, but it could serve as an example for GMs and players who are focusing on rebuilding civilization rather than just surviving the collapse.

 

Anyway, this is an anwesome product that I've been wanting for...decades now, actually, and I can't wait.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Don't forget to pick up and play the Fallout computer game, excellent PA game right there, if a bit old.

 

I'd like to see some discussion on the "During The Apocalypse" starting with the just before and going to the just after. Most games start with the Apocalypse itself as history. Some discussion on how to take a normal Pre-Apocalyptic game and go through the Apocalypse and come out on the other side.

 

"I don't know what will be used in the next world war, but the fourth will be fought with stones." -Einstein.

[mattingly]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about some retroactive post-apoc campaigns, like "the aliens that built the pyramids" finally coming back and finding the planet overrun by human slaves.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about "apocalyptizing" (is that even a word?) other genres. For instance, in the World of Greyhawk, the Rain of Colorless Fire and Invoked Devastation surely count as an apocalyptic event; they certainly caused "mutations" (strange magically warped creatures), destroyed most of what was considered civilization, caused monsters to roam the countrysides...

 

Edit: Never mind me, it helps if I read.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To the grim, gritty post-apoc settings where the apocalypse happened fairly recently, the TV shows Jeremiah (and comic source) and Jericho, and the comic Y The Last Man come to mind. Investigating the source of the apocalypse figures in each of these to some extent.

[casualplayer]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think in the GM section you should discuss the merits of mono-adversaries (zombieworld, planet of the apes, road warrior) vs. the merits of menagerie, freak-of-the-week type settings. Suggestions for motivation in game, other than the ever-popular "survival," would be good also.

[JmOz]

Re: Post-Apocalyptic Hero -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

cross genre covered, good

 

I would like to see (as much as you can) some info on "car Wars" type of game, I know it will be covered some, but want to make sure it is noted as being important to me.