D&D 4th

[NestorDRod]

Re: D&D 4th

 

D&D4e = Tabletop Dungeonsiege

 

Now with more and improved Cool Moves

 

D&D4e; Tastes Great. Less Filling.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: D&D 4th

 

I give it a hard time' date=' but I am seriously interested in it as a replacement for Warhammer Fantasy.[/quote']

 

It would make a very good Tabletop tactical game.

 

It's like D&D returned to it's roots- Chainmail/ OD&D (white box). Part of the reason I like it. I know, given the way the wife and I game, there will be amazing amounts of roleplaying, tied to a really nice tactical tabletop game.

[Old Man]

Re: D&D 4th

 

To a point yes. Hit points have always been this nebulous "Luck and cunning and will to live and body mass ect" but weapons were just physical damage. Now they made the damage from weapons, and the healing system use the same abstractions hit points do. It's consistant at least.

 

It's consistent all right. It's pretty easy to achieve consistency with a term that is devoid of any and all meaning.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: D&D 4th

 

It's consistent all right. It's pretty easy to achieve consistency with a term that is devoid of any and all meaning.

 

 

Someone on another board described hit points as the amount of plot immunity you have. Thought that funny.

[incrdbil]

Re: D&D 4th

 

Considering it isn't even seen as having taken physical damage until you lose half your hit points (a state called "Bloodied") yeah.

 

We've seen it in movies - the platoon is tired, weary, and can't go on anymore, they can barely move. Then the sgt gets up and makes some sort of amazing speech, and they find the energy to charge. The D&D healing structure allows that kind of thing - something D&D never could model before.

 

 

So if the player role plays out a really inspiring speech..the GM should then award out hit points?

 

::brings the collected works of shakespeare to the table.::

 

Now, I will be..Invincible!

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: D&D 4th

 

So if the player role plays out a really inspiring speech..the GM should then award out hit points?

 

::brings the collected works of shakespeare to the table.::

 

Now, I will be..Invincible!

 

One of the classes has a power that gives other healing surges. One SFX that you can apply to that is an inspiring speach.

 

 

And turn to Henry the 5th for the Inspiring speech section. It has a number of them.

[Susano]

Re: D&D 4th

 

So if the player role plays out a really inspiring speech..the GM should then award out hit points?

 

::brings the collected works of shakespeare to the table.::

 

Now, I will be..Invincible!

 

Yeah, "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers..." out to be enough to get a whole army up to full HP.

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: D&D 4th

 

So if the player role plays out a really inspiring speech..the GM should then award out hit points?

 

::brings the collected works of shakespeare to the table.::

 

Now, I will be..Invincible!

 

If your class has that ability, why not? In 3rd Edition, Bards could cast healing spells... sounds like a perfect way of explaining it.

[incrdbil]

Re: D&D 4th

 

If your class has that ability' date=' why not? In 3rd Edition, Bards could cast healing spells... sounds like a perfect way of explaining it.[/quote']

 

Let me clarify. I said that if the payer makes an inspiring speech, the GmMshould award hit points under this logic. However, using that explanation, that effect should happen regardless of if he's taken any mechnical ability by the rules to permit this.

 

Or is the ability to make inspring speeches based on class now? Talk about 'roll' playing.

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: D&D 4th

 

Let me clarify. I said that if the payer makes an inspiring speech, the GmMshould award hit points under this logic. However, using that explanation, that effect should happen regardless of if he's taken any mechnical ability by the rules to permit this.

 

Or is the ability to make inspring speeches based on class now? Talk about 'roll' playing.

 

If it works for the game, and the other players approve of it... Sure, why not?

But if the player wants to do it on a regular basis, he should probably have some sort of mechanical reasoning on why he can do something like that, like a Multiclassing Feat or something.

 

Would you give HERO characters access to a power that they don't have just because their player came up with a cool role-playing reasoning for why they should have it? I would. Would you let them do it on a regular basis without paying points for it?

[incrdbil]

Re: D&D 4th

 

Would you give HERO characters access to a power that they don't have just because their player came up with a cool role-playing reasoning for why they should have it? I would. Would you let them do it on a regular basis without paying points for it?

 

Well, in HERO, we don't confuse inspiring speeches with healing magic.....

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: D&D 4th

 

Well' date=' in HERO, we don't confuse inspiring speeches with healing magic.....[/quote']

 

Unless the character buys "Inspiring Speech: Healing with Incantations". Hero is all about divorcing mechanics from SFX, isn't it?

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: D&D 4th

 

One of the classes has a power that gives other healing surges. One SFX that you can apply to that is an inspiring speach.

 

 

And turn to Henry the 5th for the Inspiring speech section. It has a number of them.

 

Yeah' date=' "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers..." out to be enough to get a whole army up to full HP.[/quote']

 

Great minds and all that....

[Inu]

Re: D&D 4th

 

 

Someone on another board described hit points as the amount of plot immunity you have. Thought that funny.

I like to call it 'ablative dodging'. That's cool too, though. =)

[Inu]

Re: D&D 4th

 

It's consistent all right. It's pretty easy to achieve consistency with a term that is devoid of any and all meaning.

Naturally. As are most RPG's versions of hp. BODY isn't especially realistic or meaningful, either -- it's not like being hit by the third sword is any more likely to kill you than the first two, other than to increase bleeding. STUN, meanwhile, is a similar mishmash of things... and makes about similar sense.

 

Hit Points give you certainty in combat. If I have 30-odd, I know that, barring some unlikely circumstance, I can't be killed in one hit. This is a good thing for some players, not so good for others. If BODY and STUN are good for you, woot. It hit points work for you, yay. If you can slide between both depending on what game you're in, then you're pretty flexible. But I don't see how either is inherently more realistic/enjoyable/meaningful. =)

[CTaylor]

Re: D&D 4th

 

Mostly because some people have been saying exactly the same things that were complained about months ago on the D&D Discussion Boards, when little concrete information was known about the game.

 

Given that is true, is it not possible that this is being said because, you know, the initial sense and feeling of the game was correct?

 

it's not like being hit by the third sword is any more likely to kill you than the first two, other than to increase bleeding

 

I wouldn't suggest you try that theory out in real life.

[Inu]

Re: D&D 4th

 

I wouldn't suggest you try that theory out in real life.

I wouldn't suggest you try it out with one sword, eitehr.

[CandidGamera]

Re: D&D 4th

 

I'm picking up the three core books for 4th on Sunday. I've been reading all the previews and snippets and reviews.

 

I really think it's a board game with optional roleplaying now. I think the design influence of that board game is World of Warcraft - probably because the D&D MMO failed and the guys at the head office wanted to better "Actualize our potentialities" or something.

 

It seems like it would be a fun board game - but it has almost nothing of what I consider the essential elements of D&D - the things which have kept me playing D&D for 20 years now.

 

Disturbingly, GMs are encouraged to end campaigns with a "Destiny Quest" for players who achieve 30th level, with the goal being divine ascension. Hearkening back to the days of Basic D&D there, I suppose, with the difference being that there aren't any Immortals rules to continue play afterward.

 

Even more disturbingly, there's apparently a section in the DMG that gives guidelines for playing without a Game Master - the most damning sign of all that it's become a board game.

 

I'm very glad Paizo has decided to continue supporting and updating D&D 3.5 - I really feel that that edition is the pinnacle of this particular RPG.

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: D&D 4th

 

It seems like it would be a fun board game - but it has almost nothing of what I consider the essential elements of D&D - the things which have kept me playing D&D for 20 years now.

People keep saying things like that, but I just don't see it. Mind expanding on what those essential elements are?

[incrdbil]

Re: D&D 4th

 

Something just struck me. Maybe Kevin Siembieda isn't so crazy after all. By engaging in creative inertia, and refusing to adapt and not improving on the system..it can be said Palladium Fantasy now might be a better RPG than the game it initially was a weak clone of, simply by 4e D&D's backslide.

 

The triumph of creative stagnation?

[Diamond_J]

Re: D&D 4th

 

4E seems to be moving in the opposite direction of what I want in an RPG. It is less simulation and more abstractions that emulate video games. It is more about roles than characters and characters are more about special abilities than qualities. I'll probably read it but the game doesn't seem to have anything to offer me.

 

 

D&D has allways been more about roles then characters.

When has it not? The rules facilitate this, allways have and allways will.

 

It's a class level based hit point system, the same as 3.5, 3rd & 2nd edition. The only difference is that the wizard doesn't get a big veiny shaft up the poop shoot.

 

I've demo'd D&D 4th ED, the first module with pre-generated characters.

Every one of my friends thinks it's light years better then 3.5. One member of my group didn't want to try the new system because he hated previous D&D incarnations with the burning fire of 1 000 000 exploading suns. He walked away wanting to buy the core rule books! It's a solid system.

 

Myself, I refused to run 3rd or any incarnation of long ago because the system was a huge cluster "F". Trust me 4th is better hands down no arguement holds up againsts this, no comparison.

 

It's up to the GM to make the game more then just tabletop minitures. If you have a good GM there realy should be no problem running a fun game, and it will allso be balanced for a change.

[Diamond_J]

Re: D&D 4th

 

Something just struck me. Maybe Kevin Siembieda isn't so crazy after all. By engaging in creative inertia, and refusing to adapt and not improving on the system..it can be said Palladium Fantasy now might be a better RPG than the game it initially was a weak clone of, simply by 4e D&D's backslide.

 

The triumph of creative stagnation?

 

What are you saying? Kevin Siembieda isn't so crazy after all?

Is he sharing his crack harness with you?

 

(Siembieda's Crack harness: inside gamers joke, a reference to the Juicer of RIFTS fame. The Palladium system is seen as undescriptive and combersome. Creator and head designer Kevin seimbieda has added strange and ubtrusive rules; such as a huge bonus to save vs pain for women only, contradicotory bursting rules, poor lifting and damage ratios, and MDC)

[Diamond_J]

Re: D&D 4th

 

People keep saying things like that' date=' but I just don't see it. Mind expanding on what those essential elements are?[/quote']

 

 

1. An intense crippling fear of change.

2. The need to uphold nostagia with the rule of an iron fist

3. The desire to complain freely and openly on the internet

4. A biological urge for wizards to be made of tissue paper

5. The ability to fluke role obsene characters.

6. The bliss of pouting when one doesn't role an obsene character.

7. All level one characters must suck and be no fun to play

8. A weesle should be able to leap through the chest of a pesent (2 HP)

9. The Gm must shed tears trying to put together a game

10. Mountain due and Cheetos.

 

 

There, does that itinerize everything for you. It's all sooo clear

D&D 2nd edition is the greatest system of alll tiiiiime:drink:

[incrdbil]

Re: D&D 4th

 

I'm going to repeat a comment made on a much older thread when the first preview book for 4e came about. I think I should package it up as the first players guide to 4E.

 

If I had to play 4th edition D&D, my character will, just for the fun of it, go into random taverns yelling "PL me plz", and if he joins a group, merely halt at the dungeon entrance and leech off XP till kicked from the group. I'll then send snarky bluebook messages till the global ignore command is used, thus fully recreating the type of play the makers of D&D are seeking to emulate.

 

Thematically, I'm suprised GM's wont be asked to charge payers a monthly subscription fee for campaigns.

[Dr. Confoundo]

Re: D&D 4th

 

If you have so little interest in 4E, why do you keep posting about it?