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The Voynich Manuscript


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http://www.voynich.nu/s_intro.html

 

http://www.voynich.nu/extra/aes.html

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript (Obligatory Wikipedia link)

 

Apparently a 200 plus page manuscript that has defied translation from run of the mill cryptologists to military encryption analysts. Evidence, some of which is circumstantial connects the book to John Dee, and possibly places the author as Roger Bacon making the manuscript 700 plus years old. A perfect source for a Pulp mastermind's next occult plot. One of the articles say the book was valued at $160,000 in 1961 so for modern day games it would be a priceless artifact.

 

I notice Susano mentioned the Antikythera mechanism in the Fantasy Hero thread. Both the Voynich Manuscript and the Antikythera mechanism were featured as 6 Insane Discoveries That Science Can't Explain on Cracked.com if anybody would like to go over their an mine a few more ideas such as....

 

http://www.rense.com/general29/chin.htm a Chinese pyramid thought to be built and "plumbed" by aliens by local lore. Aliens are very big into DIY projects. Overall though an ideal base for Dr. Fang.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

For additional fun...

 

Dee hand copied a copy of Trithemius' Steganographia a book of Cryptography based at least partially on the Kabbalah concievably to help him translate texts written in forgotten or corrupted languages such as the Book of Soyga and the Voynich Manuscript.

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Guest Admiral C

Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

For additional fun...

 

Dee hand copied a copy of Trithemius' Steganographia a book of Cryptography based at least partially on the Kabbalah concievably to help him translate texts written in forgotten or corrupted languages such as the Book of Soyga and the Voynich Manuscript.

 

I have to ask but is this, I hesitate to you use the word fact, but factish? I saw a copy of a history of John Dee in a voodoo shop in New Orleans. Looked nice but was like $60.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

I have to ask but is this' date=' I hesitate to you use the word fact, but factish? I saw a copy of a history of John Dee in a voodoo shop in New Orleans. Looked nice but was like $60.[/quote']

 

 

Factish, possibly fact certainly ascerted by a biographer.

 

A copy of "The Queen's Conjurer: The Science and Magic of Dr. John Dee, Adviser to Queen Elizabeth" by Ben Woolley in paperback is generally available used for under 10 bucks. It's readable and full of plot hooks for any campaign (any campaign I'd run anyway)

 

Unfortunately' date=' it has long since been shown to be a fake. :( See this thread, especially my post, and the links from it.

 

Probably a fake yes, although if so it's a very sophisticated one compared to other successful frauds from the time. It would have required more work than necesary to skim 600 ducats from Rudolf, I think.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Ah yes. This thing keeps coming up on this forum. All kinds of pulpy goodness. :thumbup:

 

Unfortunately, it has long since been shown to be a fake. :( See this thread, especially my post, and the links from it.

 

Still, no reason not to have it be real in your pulp campaign. :winkgrin:

 

It´s not proved to be a fake. The level of sophistication that would have such deception is so great that more to be a mere deception it´s a great work of art. ;)

 

The facts are:

- If it is a fake... What was make? Studies indicate that the distribution of the characters does not correspond to any natural language but have a structure that it rejects the possibility that have been placed randomly.

- If not a fake... What is really? What represents the images? What language is written?

 

It's a fascinating topic :)

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

It's a fake. Emperor Rudolf's Prague was a beehive of this kind of activity, and attracted nuts from all over Europe to be marks for the frauds, who were very good at what they did. Check out Richard Evans' 1973 study, Rudolf and His World. Looking back, Evans probably overdid it under the influence of the times and Frances Yates, but notice this library listing: Theatre of the world : alchemy, astrology and magic in Renaissance Prague / Peter Marshall.

As for Dee, I know this is going to sound anticlimactic, but he's a great deal less interesting when you realise just how much of this stuff was going on. Still interesting, mind, but hardly unique.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

A question for those proclaiming it a fake with such certainty...

 

A fake what?

 

Calling something a "fake" implies that it's not what it portrays itself to be. That it's something trying to pass itself off as another thing.

 

What exactly is the Voynich Manuscript supposedly trying to pass itself off as?

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

A question for those proclaiming it a fake with such certainty...

 

A fake what?

 

Calling something a "fake" implies that it's not what it portrays itself to be. That it's something trying to pass itself off as another thing.

 

What exactly is the Voynich Manuscript supposedly trying to pass itself off as?

 

A tome written in an unknown language (Natural or created) or cypher. Saying it's fake means that the collected characters are gibberish and so ultimately undecipherable.

 

The arguments that it's fake are essentially

1. Lots of 'fakes' from the time.

2. People who are famous for deciphering things haven't been able to decipher it and have stated that it likely cannot be deciphered.

 

The experts have mostly given crytographery reasons why they feel it's fake, the issue there is that the level of sophistication required to create a fake that can only be identified as a fake by the reasons given is off the charts; more impressive even than having created something that has yet to be decoded.

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Guest Admiral C

Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Ah yes. This thing keeps coming up on this forum. All kinds of pulpy goodness. :thumbup:

 

Unfortunately, it has long since been shown to be a fake. :( See this thread, especially my post, and the links from it.

 

Still, no reason not to have it be real in your pulp campaign. :winkgrin:

 

Oops. I didn't know it was posted on the boards already. I'll do a search next time I post something like this. At least I posted the link to "weird plumbed alien mountain in China" so it wasn't a total waste.

 

I scanned through these links and on and the threads and their while their reasoning for it being a fake is solid (not be able to crack it by modern cryptanalysis and the number of other fakes dating to the same period) it can't be said to be a fake in fact. Rather there is a large body of evidence that indicates that it's a fake. Proving that the manuscript is a 100% hoax would be impossible unless you could find reliable documentation from the time, such as a collection of rough notes, correspondence from linguists, a journal detailing the hoax's construction or cracking the cipher and finding out it's the a highly jumbled and transposed copy of the Iliad.

 

Another interesting idea, possibly mentioned in the links I cited but in the short article I read is that it's written glossolalia, ( http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Glossolalia ) and given to the speaker directly from God/Satan/Aliens/Time Travelers. If you suppose for a second, discounting how ridiculous this may sound, that this was true the results could easily be interpreted today that same way. I.e. that it's a fake. Either way there is a enough weirdness to give either Dan Brown or Neal Stephenson fodder for another novel.

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Guest Admiral C

Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

A copy of "The Queen's Conjurer: The Science and Magic of Dr. John Dee, Adviser to Queen Elizabeth" by Ben Woolley in paperback is generally available used for under 10 bucks. It's readable and full of plot hooks for any campaign (any campaign I'd run anyway)

 

The one I saw was a hardback and brand new but the MSRP was like $50-60. I wish I had written down the name but we we're on a walking tour that day in New Orleans. I'll copy down the name of this and keep and eye out for it.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

This is the Pulp side of Hero.

Therefore it's our FRED given right to declare it real and true and containing information which requires sanity checks every half page.

 

I'd play it as a book which reads the reader. Think Discworld library. Come back the next morning and another researcher is gone, the book is a little thicker and it has an alarming smugness about it. Throw in a little Evil Dead flying ability with obvious murderous intent and we've got a winner.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

For people interested in what the Voynich Manuscript purported to be, I would recommend Science and the secrets of nature : books of secrets in medieval and early modern culture / William Eamon. (I gotta figure out how to change that formatting!)

Anyway, it was very common in this era for expert craftspeople to produce "books of secrets" containing recipes and guidelines for all their tricks, which in the case of dyers, for example, were pretty darn complicated indeed. Codes, emblematics and the like were frequently used to conceal secrets from "profane" eyes. Others, in contrast, thought that these things should be published so that the world could benefit.

From the mundane concerns of dyers to claims about secret knowledge of divine things. Kabbalism is an example of such a tradition, but only one. This idea that the truth of God's revelation is a secret available only to the elect promised a way out of the conflict between Protestant and Catholic in the late-sixteenth century Empire, putting a premium on forgeries, codes, enigmatic pictures and the like.

 

As for the effort of producing the Voynich Manuscript, I believe that some of the links go to articles that explain how it could have been composed. Since it is apparently gibberish, all you really need is an automatic writing system. (Rolling dice in an alphabet table would work just fine, for example.)

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

As for the effort of producing the Voynich Manuscript, I believe that some of the links go to articles that explain how it could have been composed. Since it is apparently gibberish, all you really need is an automatic writing system. (Rolling dice in an alphabet table would work just fine, for example.)

 

Thank you, Lawnmower Boy. For those claiming the Voynich Manuscript is oh, so sophisticated, too much so to be a fake---did you read the articles in my earlier post? Lawnmower Boy has, in essence, the gist of the matter.

 

This is the Pulp side of Hero.

Therefore it's our FRED given right to declare it real and true and containing information which requires sanity checks every half page.

Never said it wasn't. :thumbup::winkgrin:

 

I just want people to be clear on the "reality quotient" of neat stuff they're thinking about putting in their campaigns. If Z is completely bogus, there are ways to put it into a setting w/o "hung by the neck"-ism, and those way are different from how to put in something that's true. At least, IMO and IME. YMMV. :)

 

I'd play it as a book which reads the reader. Think Discworld library. Come back the next morning and another researcher is gone' date=' the book is a little thicker and it has an alarming smugness about it. Throw in a little Evil Dead flying ability with obvious murderous intent and we've got a winner.[/quote']

:thumbup: So, when are you going to write up this scenario?

 

 

 

:eg:

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Thank you' date=' Lawnmower Boy. For those claiming the Voynich Manuscript is oh, so sophisticated, too much so to be a fake---did you read the articles in my earlier post? Lawnmower Boy has, in essence, the gist of the matter.[/quote']

 

Yes, and I am familiar with Rugg's and other's work on the Manuscript. A non English speaking cryptographer could analyze an English translation of Zen Koans and come to the same conclusion Rugg did, easily.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Just curious, here. Everyone knows that if they want uncracked codes holding secrets unknown to modern man, all they have to do is go to a European archives, ask for state papers for an understudied era (for example, the Austrian War Archive's files on the Italian theatre during the War of the Spanish Succession) and the archivists will dump cartons and cartons of ciphered letters on your desk, right?

They'll be intermixed with unciphered letters, and many of the ciphers will be disguised, but they'll be there.

Happy decoding!

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Sorry Lawmower Boy, can't rep you for that one. But it's true. The Brit Ministry of defense released a bunch of stuff (on the 50 year rule) from WWII back in the 90's. And, hidden in amongst the stuff I was looking for, which was on German Navy Uniform details, was a encoded, cyphered report on the quantity of boots the German Navy had purchased in 1939. Also coded comments upon thier style, durability, availability and something about additional requirements. Cotton thread, wax or oils etc. Attached was a much later decyphering of the list from the 70's or 80's.

 

Some clark had stumbled upon it or been assigned it as an exercise perhaps and then spent time decoding this beauty. Must have taken weeks and weeks... Made my day.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Yes' date=' and I am familiar with Rugg's and other's work on the Manuscript. A non English speaking cryptographer could analyze an English translation of Zen Koans and come to the same conclusion Rugg did, easily.[/quote']

 

Like you, I am not convinced of the "fraud" hypothesis.

 

I'm somewhat inclined to think it's the product of mental illness.

 

Of course, one could argue the difference between that and simple hoax is splitting hairs.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Maybe we can feed it to the palindromedary.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Seems like an awful lot of work for a hoax, not so much for someone who has OCD.

 

As a general observation on human nature. I think one of the funniest things about "books of secret knowledge" and such is that people seem to be of the opinion that information so disguised has some greater claim to the truth than the stuff printed in library books. It's almost as if the human psyche insists, "If we could only understand this, it would become true."

 

Maybe this is why mystery cults are so popular.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Seems like an awful lot of work for a hoax, not so much for someone who has OCD.

 

As a general observation on human nature. I think one of the funniest things about "books of secret knowledge" and such is that people seem to be of the opinion that information so disguised has some greater claim to the truth than the stuff printed in library books. It's almost as if the human psyche insists, "If we could only understand this, it would become true."

 

Maybe this is why mystery cults are so popular.

 

I blame Alchemy. Pretty much to the man Alchemists rank among the foremost cryptographers of their time(s). An important aspect of the somewhat loose alchemical philosophy is making it difficult for the next guy to figure out what you learned.

 

Beyond that a healthy chunk of the secret knowledge contained in 'Books of Secret Knowledge' were example cyphers to allow people to communicate other things secretly.

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

I blame Alchemy. Pretty much to the man Alchemists rank among the foremost cryptographers of their time(s). An important aspect of the somewhat loose alchemical philosophy is making it difficult for the next guy to figure out what you learned.

 

Beyond that a healthy chunk of the secret knowledge contained in 'Books of Secret Knowledge' were example cyphers to allow people to communicate other things secretly.

 

Great, so it might turn out to be an alchemical reading primer.

 

"Well, from what we have deciphered, it appears to be a repetitive tract on transmuting eggs and ham into a green color."

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Re: The Voynich Manuscript

 

Notice how many 'Books of Secret Knowledge" are available to the public? And all of them are written in some arcane and indecypherable manner. I wonder if there's some sort of small press company out there generating these things on the fly...

 

They're old enough to be in the public domain, accessable thanks to libraries and philanthropic collectors, and cheap to produce thanks to, I don't know, Gutenberg I guess. So no real need to create more.

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