"Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

[FenrisUlf]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

Or would you like an imaginary future where starships could only achieve FTL if fueled by burning alive blue Smurfs.

 

It's about time you found a practical use for them, Gargamel.

[Wolf]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

Put another Smurf on the Barbie....

 

 

 

Man, that works on soooo many levels... nice. Okay, you get rep, if I can give it to you.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

You do know, his troubles had less to do with the theories he stated, and more to do with the incredibly arrogant and insulting way he went about it? Really, if there'd been an internet during the Renaissance, Galileo would have been a a major-league troll.

 

For a surprisingly accurate depiction of the whole Galileo mess, there's a book in the Eric Flint 1634 series that covers it at length.

 

It's also worth noting that Galileo extrapolated his observations of the orbits of Jupiter's moons into a theory of a sun-centered solar system, for which he had no directly-observed evidence. It wasn't until the detailed observations of planetary movement by Johanes Kepler that astronomers had the mathematical tools to support that theory.

[Nyrath]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

No comment on the rest of the argument' date=' but this idea rocks on toast.[/quote']

Don't forget the sensor detection system. A team of highly trained sensitives who can detect the presence of hostile starships by the tingling feeling between their shoulder blades. "Somebody is staring at me, I can feel it..."

[Nyrath]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

and could only achieve FTL if fueled by burning alive blue Smurfs.

Dude' date=' I'm totally stealing that.[/quote']

That's OK, I sort of borrowed it from Vaughn Bode's SUNSPOT cartoon. The spaceship is powered by burning alive Screw robots in the nuclear furnace. The Screws have no arms or legs so they cannot avoid their fate. Screws tend to be depressed a lot.

[Nyrath]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

It's also worth noting that Galileo extrapolated his observations of the orbits of Jupiter's moons into a theory of a sun-centered solar system' date=' for which he had no directly-observed evidence. It wasn't until the detailed observations of planetary movement by Johanes Kepler that astronomers had the mathematical tools to support that theory.[/quote']

Boy, I'm glad I didn't use Giordano Bruno as an example. Maybe Hypatia of Alexandria. Who by the way is the subject of a new movie coming out.

http://agorathemovie.com/

[Guest steamteck]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

Because current physics is the only touch stone we have.

People do not seem to understand that removing any current physics preventing one from recreating Star Wars will not be limited to just allowing that. Pull that thread out of current physics and the entire thing unravels, and nothing will prevent cotton-candy starships.

 

As a caveat, again I reiterate that suppressing inconvenient bits of physics is perfectly OK when making a Star Hero campaign. The problem comes when people start thinking it could happen in reality.

 

 

My continuing problem is still applying this logic to science fiction stories. Its just too inflexible and arrogant an attitude for speculative fiction. Its not reality its SF. I see absolutely no problem with stories based on an assumption some current theory will be replaced by another one without unraveling reality. good classic science fiction grounds everything else to make the unbelievable element seem more believable. May not be your cup of tea but that's how I feel.

[austenandrews]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

Maybe Hypatia of Alexandria. Who by the way is the subject of a new movie coming out.

http://agorathemovie.com/

Wow, that looks extremely promising.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

It's also worth noting that Galileo extrapolated his observations of the orbits of Jupiter's moons into a theory of a sun-centered solar system' date=' for which he had no directly-observed evidence. [/quote']

 

Copernicus published his heliocentric theory in 1543, more than 20 years before Galileo was born.

[Gnaskar]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

the real reason:

http://xkcd.com/502/

 

And, there has been a long history of humans dieing for their beliefs. Socrates was killed by a democratic comity for his work as a "friend of knowledge" (philosopher). Archimedes and his Mathematical Cult killed Hypotenuse to conceal the existence of rational numbers (specifically the square root of two). This cult discovered pi, ironically.

 

My point is: people kill people, especially people who try to tell them new things. (And, yes, the subtext, rapidly becoming text, is that 33 % present of the world have their own example(s) to fall back to). It's insane, and illogical, but its human behavior, nether the less. One of the few near universal facts.

 

The best way to stop people from killing people is to cut each other some slack, and try to coexist. It's not easy, trust me, I live in a city full of normal people *shudders*.

 

Disclaimer: your definition of normal may vary; all facts were from memory and may be myths.

[Yansuf]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

I'm uncertain about quantum mechanics.

 

That's OK, Einstein was uncertain about it too. His comment was "G-d does not play with dice."

 

Archimedes and his Mathematical Cult killed Hypotenuse to conceal the existence of rational numbers (specifically the square root of two). This cult discovered pi, ironically.

 

I assume the above is a joke?

[Gnaskar]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

No joke, just some weird dyslexics-memory flaw hybrid mistake. I ment Pythagoras and not Archimedes. And the victim was called Hippasus. A careful googling indicated that history is uncertain as to if it was a murder or an accident. My source book "More Murderous Maths" apparently choose the most entertaining anecdote rather than a balanced record.

 

And the signature refers to the heisenberg uncertainty principle, in case there was any uncertainty. (joke intended)

[Cancer]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

Or would you like an imaginary future where starships had to be constructed out of cotton candy and could only achieve FTL if fueled by burning alive blue Smurfs.

 

Ragnar Smurfslayer (an old character, with a serious Berserk at the sight of blue-skinned humanoids) loves you.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: "Dark Flow" Discovered at Edge of the Universe

 

the real reason:

http://xkcd.com/502/

 

And, there has been a long history of humans dieing for their beliefs. Socrates was killed by a democratic comity for his work as a "friend of knowledge" (philosopher). Archimedes and his Mathematical Cult killed Hypotenuse to conceal the existence of rational numbers (specifically the square root of two). This cult discovered pi, ironically.

 

My point is: people kill people, especially people who try to tell them new things. (And, yes, the subtext, rapidly becoming text, is that 33 % present of the world have their own example(s) to fall back to). It's insane, and illogical, but its human behavior, nether the less. One of the few near universal facts.

 

The best way to stop people from killing people is to cut each other some slack, and try to coexist. It's not easy, trust me, I live in a city full of normal people *shudders*.

 

Disclaimer: your definition of normal may vary; all facts were from memory and may be myths.

The trial of Socrates is a little more complicated than that.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/socrates/socrates.HTM

And you have Archimedes confused with Pythagoras. The story about the discovery of irrational numbers seems to be a colourful late invention. There has been a great deal of work on Pythagoras lately, especially by the great Walter Burkert. His early study is deservedly influential

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BURBAB.html

His latest book sounds downright fascinating

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BURBAB.html

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03354a.htm

but if there is one book by Burkert that we all need to read, including for more insight into the nature of the Pythagorean movement, it has to be

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/BURORI.html

The real problem in trying to understand Pythagoras is that we are so dependent on Aristotle's doxology (history of philosophy for philosophers). The question is, how reliable is Aristotle? The answer may be, not very reliable at all.

http://openlibrary.org/b/OL12850785M/The_Cosmic_Republic

 

On Galileo, we may be at risk of losing the forest for the trees. His first conflict "with the Church," actually with Cardinal Robert Bellarmine in his investigative office, came in collaboration with a Provincial of the Carmelites, Paolo Foscarini. We don't know much about Foscarini

http://galileo.rice.edu/chr/foscarini.html

but we know a great deal about Bellarmine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02411d.htm) and his close friend and intellectual ally, Baronius (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02304b.htm). We know that through their scholarship, patronship, and even politics, they seriously undermined Foscarini's splinter of the Carmelite Order (Ancient Observance), an especially important matter considering that significant amounts of property were then being returned to the Carmelites, and the question was, which Carmelites (AO, or Descalched)?

We should then ask ourselves not how Foscarini and Galileo promoted heliocentric astronomy, but how their promotion tended to undermine Bellarmine on various matters theological. And beyond.

What is going on here? Well, there's two things to ask about Galileo. What actually happened, and what we think happened. This is perhaps the most famous example one can put forward in which the facts are deeply in variance with a historical myth that everyone knows. So how did the myth sink its teeths so deeply into the specifically English-speaking consciousness?

Here's a fascinating book on Jesuit political philosophy, of all things. It makes clear how Bellarmine and Baronius' intellectual project inevitably came to be seen as a full-on attack on the British Reformation and its political settlement. Between them, these two authors darn near refuted the Reformation itself. And the whole Tudor-Stuart succession is predicated on the Reformation, since repeatedly from 1555 to 1714, royal successions were determined on the basis of choosing a problematic Protestant candidate over a Catholic. No wonder the idea of Galileo as a scholar of truth struck down by the evil Bellarmine became a leitmotif of English politics. It removed the need to actually study the kinds of things that Bellarmine and Baronius had considered, and refuting them in detail.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=STsaLG9HfjIC&dq=harro+hopfl&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=lGvWgDdF6x&sig=HePnoRhGVkGv-cBwRicRU4YB7-g&hl=en&ei=nCm1StCoMorKsAOBueDRDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#v=onepage&q=harro%20hopfl&f=false

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03354a.htm

 

In sum: people very rarely kill each other over things they know. Politics is the main reason that people kill each other, whether they cop to it or not.