Cancer Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Well, a probe could be handled if they are limited to snapshots taken in the millisecond before the probe disintegrated, if you posit that the FTL talent is one required for surviving an FTL jump rather than making the jump altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Another implication: requiring a living, sentient pilot who possesses a relatively rare talent for the only known method of FTL flight means no FTL missiles and no FTL probes. You also won't have hordes of small FTL-capable warcraft; even if you want "fighters" for localized use, you'll have to have interstellar carriers if you want to take them with you. In SPI's old paper-n-cardboard wargame StarForce Alpha Centauri http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2524 both the FTL drive and the FTL weapons were actually teams of psionic women. They were all in the same guild. Many know each other. Which means that if you are one of these psionics, you are not going to destroy a ship with some of your guild-sisters on it. Even if it is officially an "enemy" ship. Combat became very bloodless and ritualized. The main weapon was a sort of telepathic compulsion to do a random FTL jump into the wild blue yonder. The affected ship was not harmed, it just suddenly found itself on the far side of known space, and would be spending quite a few turns slowly crawling back to the battle zone. Destroying planets was out as well. The only real source of wealth was the psionic women. And the only way to produce them was to have large populations. So destroying the people on a planet would eliminate the only source of value of the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Well' date=' a probe could be handled if they are limited to snapshots taken in the millisecond before the probe disintegrated, if you posit that the FTL talent is one required for [u']surviving[/u] an FTL jump rather than making the jump altogether. I was thinking more along the lines of sending probes out via FTL to other stars and the like. You'd need a manned scouting vessel for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... In SPI's old paper-n-cardboard wargame StarForce Alpha Centauri http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2524 both the FTL drive and the FTL weapons were actually teams of psionic women. They were all in the same guild. Many know each other. Which means that if you are one of these psionics, you are not going to destroy a ship with some of your guild-sisters on it. Even if it is officially an "enemy" ship. Combat became very bloodless and ritualized. The main weapon was a sort of telepathic compulsion to do a random FTL jump into the wild blue yonder. The affected ship was not harmed, it just suddenly found itself on the far side of known space, and would be spending quite a few turns slowly crawling back to the battle zone. Destroying planets was out as well. The only real source of wealth was the psionic women. And the only way to produce them was to have large populations. So destroying the people on a planet would eliminate the only source of value of the planet. Huh. Very different settup. For a game setting, though, that's not necessarily where I want to go. What sort of effect did it have on smaller scales of conflict, interpersonal strife, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Ah' date=' how could I forget. In [b']Gilpin's Space[/b] by Reginald Bretnor, some people who travel in starships gain somewhat psychic powers. They are generally women, they basically become high priestesses. This is good because some sectors of space are unhealthy. Such sectors are under the influence of ethereal hyperadvanced entities who are malign, basically evil deities. These can drive unprotected humans insane, but high priestesses can provide protection. The enabling premise of the novel is some whimsical mad scientist invents an FTL drive that can be assembled in a garage. He transmits the blueprints over the internet to everybody he can find. All you need to do is mount the drive inside, say, a submarine, and you have instant starship. Of course the various governments of Earth become very angry at this, but there is little they can do to stop the flood. First, I've noticed that one of the areas where Wiki has very little is in the area of genre novels, shorts, etc. Even if there is an article about the author, most of his/her stories won't have one. These plot/concept summaries you give are very helpful. Second, I've read a lot, and yet I'm amazed at how you have a reference to an existing story or game setting for about every other idea mentioned in some of these thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... I'm also starting my list of alien species. I'm going to have some "humans with makeup" aliens (and a lot of in-setting speculation as to how that could happen, I'm not going to just gloss over it), and some really alien aliens, and the whole landscape between. List of "archetypes" I have so far: The species that evolved from big batlike creatures, no longer fly, still have sonar & nightvision, and poor distance vision, easily handle zero-G / freefall environments and 3-D manueuvers. The "mysterious hunters" The "dwellers in the dark", enigmatic traders who live out between the stars and give spacers the creeps. "Metallic chemistry" aliens who can't use "otherspace", are immune to any of the Talents related thereto, and have an unknown technology for FTL travel. "space nomads" (could be aliens or a "near-human" subculture) The species where esper/"otherspace" Talents are the norm. Any thoughts on those? Any others that you think would add to the setting, that players would like to play, or that players would like to interact with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... After some discussion in the chat earlier today, it seems that the archetype that people might find the most overused and in need of a rest is that of "the warrior race." I think I agree. If nothing else, you can't all be warriors. Someone has to tend the farms and make the weapons and fix the appliances and drive the delivery vehicles and... At the very least, a "warrior race" would need someone to be the "hellots" to their "Spartans". And that brought up an idea for a different kind of alien -- the former robotic slaves of a warrior race (or decadent race), who rebelled against their masters/creators. (Or might do so during the campaign.) It was then suggested that the robots, who probably can't possess the talent to access otherspace and thus FTL, might be the sort to raid "the bios" and kidnap navigators for their own use, and would be feared and hated. The robots would "logically" justify their treatment of bios as reasonable given their past treatment by their masters/creators. On the other hand, "the robot / cyBORG" meanace might be another too-common trope. (Thanks to those who helped me with these ideas earlier today.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yansuf Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... After some discussion in the chat earlier today, it seems that the archetype that people might find the most overused and in need of a rest is that of "the warrior race." I think I agree. If nothing else, you can't all be warriors. Someone has to tend the farms and make the weapons and fix the appliances and drive the delivery vehicles and... At the very least, a "warrior race" would need someone to be the "hellots" to their "Spartans". And that brought up an idea for a different kind of alien -- the former roboting slaves of a warrior race (or decadent race), who rebelled against their masters/creators. (Or might do so during the campaign.) It was then suggested that the robots, who probably can't possess the talent to access otherspace and thus FTL, might be the sort to raid "the bios" and kidnap navigators for their own use, and would be feared and hated. The robots would "logically" justify their treatment of bios as reasonable given their past treatment by their masters/creators. On the other hand, "the robot / cyBORG" meanace might be another too-common trope. (Thanks to those who helped me with these ideas earlier today.) Or the robots could hire merc pilots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Or the robots could hire merc pilots. See, I like that idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Or the robots could hire merc pilots. Or they could come up with a really nasty spin on the idea, if thus inclined. How much of a suitable human being is required for said job, after al? I'm thinking of David Weber's 'The Apocalypse Troll' here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Or they could come up with a really nasty spin on the idea' date=' if thus inclined. How much of a suitable human being is required for said job, after al? I'm thinking of David Weber's 'The Apocalypse Troll' here.[/quote'] Haven't read it, I'll look it up. But yeah, ugh. If the only thing needed is the central nervous system, then you have an especially nasty version of the "brain in a jar". "We control your sensory inputs, biothing. Pain, pleasure, deprivation, it matters little to us. Perform well in your function, and you will have much reward. Fail, and agony shall be your world. Ponder this while the shiftcoils charge." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... you can also have a version of the matrix to make things easier on the navigators, training, control systems, that sort of thing. The one scene where the control are running the docks in Zion is essentially what I am thinking about, but other uses could be found. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... you can also have a version of the matrix to make things easier on the navigators, training, control systems, that sort of thing. The one scene where the control are running the docks in Zion is essentially what I am thinking about, but other uses could be found. CES Hell, being used as otherspace navigators by a robot space horde would have been a better reality behind the Matrix than what the actual movies used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... I'm not sure about the time scale for travel yet. I need to find a nice balance where a trip from Sol to Bernard's star isn't an afternoon "drive", but visiting more distant worlds doesn't take weeks or months. Even a lightyear a day means that the center of the Milky Way is almost 75 years away. How many stars are within 100 light years of Sol? Of course, if you have to get some distance from the nearest gravity well before making the shift to otherspace, that adds a minimum time on to the beginning and end of every trip, doesn't it? My advice: decide the result you want, then figure out a way to get there. Some possibilities: * Minimum distance from a gravity well (as you mentioned above) * FTL acceleration/deceleration are not equal; perhaps you can keep accelerating at some rate, then a planetary gravity well allows almost instantaneous deceleration * FTL acceleration/deceleration is not linear, so maybe the first parsec takes a week, then to 50LY is two weeks, then to 100LY is three weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... My advice: decide the result you want, then figure out a way to get there. Some possibilities: * Minimum distance from a gravity well (as you mentioned above) * FTL acceleration/deceleration are not equal; perhaps you can keep accelerating at some rate, then a planetary gravity well allows almost instantaneous deceleration * FTL acceleration/deceleration is not linear, so maybe the first parsec takes a week, then to 50LY is two weeks, then to 100LY is three weeks. Faster per LY the farther you're going might help too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Couple of things: 1) With all the science fiction gamers and readers here, I really thought I'd get more input on what kind of aliens, and/or human cultures, people thought were done to death, or that they'd like to see in more settings. 2) I had a thought for "otherspace" that might make FTL travel time more variable and good navigators very valuable. As part of it being unlike normal space, it has an extra dimension. Every point in otherspace roughly corresponds to a point in normal space. The "deeper" you go in otherspace along the "v axis", however, the closer those points are together. Hypothetically, if you went "all the way down", you'd be able to travel anywhere in the normalspace universe instantly. But the "deeper" along the "v axis" you go, the more likely things are to get... strange. And what I said before, about otherspace being non-Euclidian and non-Einsteinian, would still apply. Again, just brainstorming, let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Couple of things: 1) With all the science fiction gamers and readers here, I really thought I'd get more input on what kind of aliens, and/or human cultures, people thought were done to death, or that they'd like to see in more settings. 2) I had a thought for "otherspace" that might make FTL travel time more variable and good navigators very valuable. As part of it being unlike normal space, it has an extra dimension. Every point in otherspace roughly corresponds to a point in normal space. The "deeper" you go in otherspace along the "v axis", however, the closer those points are together. Hypothetically, if you went "all the way down", you'd be able to travel anywhere in the normalspace universe instantly. But the "deeper" along the "v axis" you go, the more likely things are to get... strange. And what I said before, about otherspace being non-Euclidian and non-Einsteinian, would still apply. Again, just brainstorming, let me know what you think. nicely pondered, me likey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Again' date=' just brainstorming, let me know what you think.[/quote']Responded with rep. I like the Otherspace idea a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Second' date=' I've read a lot, and yet I'm amazed at how you have a reference to an existing story or game setting for about every other idea mentioned in some of these thread.[/quote'] Because I've read a lot but have probably been doing for longer than you. If you check the publication dates on the various stories and games I suggest, you'll see that most of them are really old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... I'm also starting my list of alien species. I'm going to have some "humans with makeup" aliens (and a lot of in-setting speculation as to how that could happen, I'm not going to just gloss over it), and some really alien aliens, and the whole landscape between. List of "archetypes" I have so far: You may or may not find this useful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extraterrestrials_in_fiction_by_type http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlienTropes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Carman Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Haven't read it, I'll look it up. But yeah, ugh. If the only thing needed is the central nervous system, then you have an especially nasty version of the "brain in a jar". "We control your sensory inputs, biothing. Pain, pleasure, deprivation, it matters little to us. Perform well in your function, and you will have much reward. Fail, and agony shall be your world. Ponder this while the shiftcoils charge." Oooh, flashback to Bertram Chandler's Commodore Grimes novels. Early on, the FTL communication system was trained telepaths, and they used disembodied brains as amplifiers. These brains were usually from dogs or cats, and the telepaths treated them as "pets", which everyone else considered rather creepy. Several stories involved crossing into alternate universes (which was apparently easier out on "The Rim"). In one, some rats got an evolutionary boost from a malfunctioning FTL drive and took over in several sectors. Obviously, evolved rats are not going to get along with cat or dog amplifiers, so they used humans instead. The FTL drive in those stories has been loosely described as "going astern in time while full ahead in space". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Couple of things: 1) With all the science fiction gamers and readers here, I really thought I'd get more input on what kind of aliens, and/or human cultures, people thought were done to death, or that they'd like to see in more settings. . Much as I love the Trekverse (and I do!), there has been a tendency to portray some of the best-known alien races as embodying (or being caricatures of) one particular facet of human behaviour / culture. There is some individual variation (or exceptions), but most Klingons are Vikings / bikers, Vulcans are UberGeeks, most Ferenghi are carpet-baggers, Bajorans in general are (arguably) the Israelis, and so on. Guess what I am saying is to try not to do, or overdo, this. That famous line from Mr Campbell comes to mind - "Give me something that thinks as well as a man, but not like a man....". 2) I had a thought for "otherspace" that might make FTL travel time more variable and good navigators very valuable. As part of it being unlike normal space, it has an extra dimension. Every point in otherspace roughly corresponds to a point in normal space. The "deeper" you go in otherspace along the "v axis", however, the closer those points are together. Hypothetically, if you went "all the way down", you'd be able to travel anywhere in the normalspace universe instantly. But the "deeper" along the "v axis" you go, the more likely things are to get... strange. And what I said before, about otherspace being non-Euclidian and non-Einsteinian, would still apply. Again, just brainstorming, let me know what you think. Somehow reminds me of how star travel is handled in David Weber's 'Honour Harrington" books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Much as I love the Trekverse (and I do!), there has been a tendency to portray some of the best-known alien races as embodying (or being caricatures of) one particular facet of human behaviour / culture. There is some individual variation (or exceptions), but most Klingons are Vikings / bikers, Vulcans are UberGeeks, most Ferenghi are carpet-baggers, Bajorans in general are (arguably) the Israelis, and so on. Guess what I am saying is to try not to do, or overdo, this. That famous line from Mr Campbell comes to mind - "Give me something that thinks as well as a man, but not like a man....". I do want to avoid the "single type of person" cultures as much as possible. Somehow reminds me of how star travel is handled in David Weber's 'Honour Harrington" books. Under the "no new thing under the sun" department, after posting that idea, I followed someone's link to Weber's The Apocolypse Troll and read the first few chapters, and I was like "wow, this FTL sounds somewhat familiar." I guess "otherspace" ends up being halfway between Warhammer 40K's "the warp" and the the Honourverse's multidimensional drives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Long ago I had the bizarre idea that FTL was done by popping into another dimension, changing position there, then popping back. Shifts in the other dimension were much smaller Over There than here, by something like a factor of 10^11, so that the Galactic Center could be reached by popping a ship over there, dragging it about 10 km, then popping back. Inanimate and living but nonsentient or unconscious things were much smaller relative to human figures in the alternate dimension than they were in our own, so that a kilometer-size ship full of people in sleep tanks turned into an automobile-size boulder in the alternate dimension. The problem was that there was no technology in the other dimension, except the "drive" which could pop between dimensions. So, the other dimension was full of people who dragged automobile-size boulders around by brute muscle power, and a smaller group who did surveying tasks so that ships got to where people wanted to be. I think I still have that story around somewhere, but it's been 30 years since I thought about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrath Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Re: Star HERO with... not magic, really, but... Long ago I had the bizarre idea that FTL was done by popping into another dimension' date=' changing position there, then popping back. Shifts in the other dimension were much smaller Over There than here, by something like a factor of 10^11, so that the Galactic Center could be reached by popping a ship over there, dragging it about 10 km, then popping back.[/quote'] An interesting implication is that any error in moving your ship to its final destination in the other dimension will be magnified by the same factor of 10^11. So if you position your ship one millimeter off target, it will arrive in real space 100,000 kilometers off target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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