Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Who is sticking to horses and a wagon?

 

 

I am!

 

For some reason, I just can't seem to let go of my old, trusty horse Fred. We've shared some interesting adventures together....I just couldn't ditch him for some younger stronger horse.

[mkultra]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I am!

 

For some reason, I just can't seem to let go of my old, trusty horse Fred. We've shared some interesting adventures together....I just couldn't ditch him for some younger stronger horse.

When that old horse ends up at the glue factory, you'll have something to bind your copy of 6ED

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

 

 

So if there was an old thing that you are incensed about that got ripped up and changed or tossed out, feel free to give me an example.

 

~Rex

 

Figured characteristics removed. I would bring them back.

 

Comliness removed. I would bring it back.

 

Stun Multiplier reduced. I would return it's default to 1D6-1 (actually, I'm torn on this issue. 1/2D6 puts killing attack stun in line with the stun from equivalent Normal Damage, so i would consider keeping this)

 

Those are just the things off the top of my head and i haven't even read the book yet. I'll be back once i've read the book but the removal of COM and Figureds being decoupled doesn't sit well with me at all. I personally feel that the 5th edition is the penultimate version of HERO. I felt so strongly about this in fact, that i've never purchased the 5th ed Revised....never felt a need to as I didn't require all the clarification and expansion present in the book. I extrapolated most of that stuff myself anyway.

 

I know, I know. Read the book and come back with an informed opinion. I intend to. When I post again in this topic it will either be to add to the list of things I dislike about the direction of the 6e, or to sing its praises. But i'm telling you that i highly doubt if I have much good to say about it unless there are a ton of cool new rules or rules expansions that weren't present in the 5th edition or it makes me feel as if it give you more freedom to create what you want than previous editions (hard to imagine considering that I've never felt that the 5th ed was particularly limiting). I'm the type of person that once I've found my favorite version of something, I stay satisfied and rarely upgrade. I prefer 3rd edition Gamma World to 4th. I prefer 1st and 2cnd edition Shadowrun to the others and I prefer 1st edition Exalted to 2cnd edition etc.

[Burrito Boy]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I'm the type of person that once I've found my favorite version of something' date=' I stay satisfied and rarely upgrade. I prefer 3rd edition Gamma World to 4th. I prefer 1st and 2cnd edition Shadowrun to the others and I prefer 1st edition Exalted to 2cnd edition etc.[/quote']

 

I'm the same way. 4th edition Gamma World will always be my favorite. But I'll let you get away with liking 3rd more because we're both GW fans and radiation is thicker than water.

 

For now I'm sticking with 5th Ed Hero for monetary reasons more than anything else. (I could swear I already said as much in this thread but I don't see the green icon saying that I've posted in this thread.)

[Tasha]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

 

Stun Multiplier reduced. I would return it's default to 1D6-1 (actually, I'm torn on this issue. 1/2D6 puts killing attack stun in line with the stun from equivalent Normal Damage, so i would consider keeping this)

 

Those are just the things off the top of my head and i haven't even read the book yet. I'll be back once i've read the book but the removal of COM and Figureds being decoupled doesn't sit well with me at all. I personally feel that the 5th edition is the penultimate version of HERO. I felt so strongly about this in fact, that i've never purchased the 5th ed Revised....never felt a need to as I didn't require all the clarification and expansion present in the book. I extrapolated most of that stuff myself anyway.

 

I know, I know. Read the book and come back with an informed opinion. I intend to. When I post again in this topic it will either be to add to the list of things I dislike about the direction of the 6e, or to sing its praises. But i'm telling you that i highly doubt if I have much good to say about it unless there are a ton of cool new rules or rules expansions that weren't present in the 5th edition or it makes me feel as if it give you more freedom to create what you want than previous editions (hard to imagine considering that I've never felt that the 5th ed was particularly limiting). I'm the type of person that once I've found my favorite version of something, I stay satisfied and rarely upgrade. I prefer 3rd edition Gamma World to 4th. I prefer 1st and 2cnd edition Shadowrun to the others and I prefer 1st edition Exalted to 2cnd edition etc.

 

I defiantly agree with Killing attacks. At least I can use hit locations to bring back that range of Stun Multiples for my Heroic games. For Superheroic Games, I can live with 1/2d6 Multiples. Those are the kind of games that shouldn't really be using tons of KA's IMHO

 

I'll leave the rest of my opinions out of this post. I look to new editions to fix mechanics that are clunky, hard to use or aren't understood well. I think that 6e succeeded on this level. I don't always agree with the way things were changed, but those changes really aren't game stopping.

[JmOz]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

NSG: On figured characteristics: I know you have heard it before but I need to put my 2 cents in because I hated the idea, but once I started using the new rules I was amazed at how much I liked the change. I do feel that the number of "extra points" that have been added to compensate is to low, but then I felt 5th might have added to many, so it helps to balance the two out (by 4th/5th edition standards I would say that characters are about 300 pointers now) but of course this is easy to change and is not really a rules issue...

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I think that Steamtech and myself finally understand one another. I think that he understands that I respect his experiences and knowledge of his gaming group. Also I think that he understands what I tried very hard to get across and obviously failed to communicate.

Tasha

 

 

I agree. We're good and communication is being finally achieved. No fighting, just two people trying to get some understanding.

[Tasha]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I agree. We're good and communication is being finally achieved. No fighting' date=' just two people trying to get some understanding.[/quote']

 

Thanks

[Rapier]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

NSG: On figured characteristics: I know you have heard it before but I need to put my 2 cents in because I hated the idea' date=' but once I started using the new rules I was amazed at how much I liked the change. I do feel that the number of "extra points" that have been added to compensate is to low, but then I felt 5th might have added to many, so it helps to balance the two out (by 4th/5th edition standards I would say that characters are about 300 pointers now) but of course this is easy to change and is not really a rules issue...[/quote']

 

I had a similar reaction. I opened a new thread and started ranting and typing away (as I tend to do). I'm into my second paragraph when it hits me. OMG! I LOVE THIS! So I deleted the thread. There were a couple of things that I was up in arms over and after giving it some thought I was converted. I had similar epiphanies about the disappearance of the Growth/Shrinking Always On and Naked Advantages when 5E came out.

 

A certain amount of that is also having faith in Steve. I don't think for a minute that he set out to ruin the game or just threw these changes in without giving them some thought. I don't always agree with Steve and his rulings/changes, but I've never thought for a minute that he was 'out to get us' and didn't have a reason or rationale behind his decisions. Since he doesn't (rightly so) take part in 'why did you do X' conversations, it's sometimes not immediately clear to us what he was thinking when he writes. Sometimes it takes quite a bit of pondering to figure it out.

[RexMundi]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

If you don't know or have seen examples from me you haven't been looking. I still submit clunky is very very subjective. I find no figurers and the characteristic comparisons chart clunkier than figures were.

 

if you want my list I can supply I suppose but there seems little point in going over it again to me.

 

Heh, that's why I said Don't see Many...as opposed to don't see Any. Still.....most of those that I have seen, are pretty much the same batch of reasons. Happy with what they got. Can't Afford the new Stuff. Liked Comeliness and Figureds and Elemental Controls.

 

The First two I have no issues with Understanding, the last.....All I got to say is I've played since Day 1, Champions 1. The effect of Elemental control is still there without being a chunky point grinder that a lot of folks used pretty much just for power gaming, Comeliness is now an add on you pick up if you want (Most people don't seem to care or want comeliness, if I had a dollar for every 10 I saw on a sheet (or two dolars for every less then 10, I would buy......oh Asia I think for a start), and if you demand more granularity for striking appearence, you simply structure it like wealth. Figureds, pretty much annoyed the majority of people I played with all over the world. If anything they were always the deal breaker for the most part.

 

The Later always reminded me of the folks that still cling to THACO on the DnD side of the edition evolution.....Not that that's a bad thing. I still know competitive racers that insist upon a naturally aspirated engine as well. No matter how many times they get beat up by something fuel injected. It's what they're Used to, and they liked it, so they stick to it.

 

Hence why you can still buy a Holly 4500 Dominator.

 

In the end the game is a product and like any other product, eventually supply and demand will dictate what's around when the dust settles. Until then I happily play either, but much like my Modern Firearms in the other collection, the niftiness of the over all 6e system is making the other guns come up laking, especially in the field of getting others to play the game.

 

~Rex

[teh bunneh]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

One thing I'm loving about 6e is the decoupling of Dex from CV. In my Fantasy Hero game I love being able to create a combat monster (OCV 6+) who isn't a master gymnist (Dex <12). I also like being able to give someone a high OCV without also giving him a high DCV (he hits people a lot' date=' but doesn't bother trying to get out of the way), or vice versa. You could sorta-kinda duplicate that effect before using Combat Levels, but this way is really seamless and intuitive.[/quote']

 

I still find the combat levels way more intuitive but that's me. works wonderfully for what you describe. It just isn't broken for me but fits just perfectly The decoupling still just breaks things for me.

 

Let me give you an example of what I mean here.

 

I have a super-speedster type, named Blur!! (yes, the two exclamation points and the italics are part of her name). She's constantly moving, can't sit still; she's literally a blur. It's hard to see her sometimes, she's moving around so much. She's extremely agile and dextrous. However, she's not really much good in a fight. She's hard as hell to target, but she barely even knows not to put her thumb inside her fist when she punches someone.

 

So, in 5th edition, here's what I had to do:

 

First, since she's no good in a fight, she can't have a very high DEX. It's gotta be less than the campaign average (which is around 23-24). So, give her something like an 18 DEX. That gives her a 6 CV, which is appropriate.

 

But now she's going last every phase, so I have to buy her a ton of lightning reflexes -- to get her up to 30, at least.

 

I also have to buy her SPD up, since... well, since she's fast. On top of that, I have to buy a bunch of DEX Skill Levels, or buy all her DEX skills up very high, since she's very agile/dextrous.

 

And she's also trivially easy to hit, which is not appropriate for this character. There's a couple of options here. One option is to buy a bunch of 5 point DCV Combat Skill Levels, to get her up to the campaign max for DCV (or maybe, if the GM allows it, above the campaign max, since that's sorta her schtick). So we buy her up, say, +10 DCV. That kind of works, although it's not a perfect solution. For example, when she's out of combat, or when she's Stunned, the combat levels drop, and she's down to a 3 DCV (no combat levels, plus half your normal DCV). Again, the character concept is that she's a blur, constantly vibrating -- even when she's stunned, or asleep, or just hanging around, she's hard to see, much less to hit. Right now, when she's stunned she's easier to hit than when the 24 DEX brick is stunned.

 

Second option is to buy a bunch of levels of Combat Luck, and define the SFX as "you thought you hit her, but you didn't because she's so fast." That sorta works. But part of her thing is that she's pretty easy to hit with AoE attacks. Target the general area she's in and she's a sitting duck. I guess I can buy the Combat Luck with the limitation of "not vs. AoE attacks" and call it good...ish. Still not a perfect solution, since by definition Combat Luck doesn't work when you're Stunned. Maybe the GM will let me fudge this, if I'm lucky.

 

So, what we have here is: low DEX, high SPD, lots of Lightning Reflexes, lots of DEX skill levels, lots of DCV-only CSLs, and a bunch of Combat Luck Not vs. AoE. And it doesn't quite get me what I want (due to the low DCV and lack of defenses when stunned or out of combat). This is a very inefficient build, I think most people will agree. Better to just buy her a 30+ DEX and forget all that stuff about her not being very good in combat, right?

 

In 6th Edition, I do this:

 

Buy the DEX I want. Buy the SPD I want. Buy the OCV I want. Buy the DCV I want. And now I have the character I want. I don't need Lightning Reflexes, Skill Levels, DCV levels, or Combat Luck (although I can still get them if I really want).

 

Obviously, a situation like this has never come up in your games. It's possible that you've never imagined a concept like this before (although, to me, Blur!! doesn't seem too unusual or genre-breaking). But things like this seem to come up in my games all the time. Fantasy Hero, Champions, Pulp Hero, Steampunk Hero, whatever the genre, someone always comes up with a character that is tough to make. There are workarounds, sure, and sometimes those workarounds even come pretty close. However, decoupling figured characteristics makes a lot of these builds trivially easy, and (here's the best part!) doesn't make building more "standard" characters any harder.

 

Your mileage may (and apparently does) vary, but for my games, this one change has opened up a world of possibilities that didn't seem possible (or at least seemed absurdly complicated) before.

[Markdoc]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I have to admit I would just have built Blur!! with a high DEX to start with and then limited her because she's crap in a fight.

I actually have a character like this in my current FH game - she's an archer and a scarily effective one (interestingly - in FH archers can be among the most effective fighters - in D&D, unless augmented with magic, they're rubbish ....). But she's no good at HTH combat, reflected by the fact the fact that she "freezes up" if enemies get too close (I handled that by a psychological limitation, but it could have easily have been a limitation on DEX).

 

That said, I'm not too fussed by the lack of Figureds. I would have preferred to see the costs balanced off and retain them, but uncoupling was (to me) a clear winner over leaving things as they were.

 

cheers, Mark

[teh bunneh]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Blur!! went through three or four different builds in the course of that campaign, because we could never seem to get her quite right. At first, she just had a really high DEX, but she was scarily effective in combat because of that. Much more effective than the concept called for, so the GM asked (and I agreed) to redesign her.

 

The second build was closer to what I envisioned for the character (the build I described up above), but it was so inefficient. I left a ton of points on the table because of all the stuff I had to buy to get her right, so she ended up being considerably less powerful than the other PCs (I had to drop a ton of skills and other powers to get the points to balance).

 

Finally, we went back to something like the original build, but (IIRC) gave her a PhysLim: No Good In A Fight (-4 OCV). Which is a kludge, but it more or less worked for the campaign. Obviously, I feel that buying OCV and DCV separate from DEX is a much more elegant and intuitive solution (and not just for Blur!!; there's lots of character concepts that it works for, IMX).

 

She was a fun character to play, but a real bear to build right.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

On the whole COM thing:

Com 12 = 1/2 d6 Striking Appearance, limited group

Com 14 = 1d6 Striking Appearance, limited group; OR 1/2d6 Striking Appearance

Com 15-16 = 1d6 Striking Appearance

Com 18 = 1d6 Striking Appearance, plus 1/2 d6 Striking Appearance, limited group; OR +2d6 Striking Appearance, limited group

Com 20 = 1.5 d6 Striking Appearance, OR 1d6 SA + 1d6 SA LG, OR 2.5d6 SA LG

COM 22 = 2d6 SA/3 d6 SA LG/any combination thereof

 

On closer scrutiny, the Talent system actually enables greater granularity, PLUS a clearly defined in-game effect for appearance, as opposed to the fairly vague official rules regarding COM in the original game. If someone has the equivalent of a 4-6 COM, they can take a DF or Social Complication: Physically unattractive, to reflect that. If they're shockingly ugly, they can take a different kind of Striking Appearance talent for that.

 

I was resistant to getting rid of COM, but I find the new system more appealing now. If you want to restore "appearance" as an "everyman" stat, just write in a line for "App" and put "+0" for a "normal" appearance, "+X" for striking appearance, etc. It's a minor kludge, yes, but if you play around with the SA talent, you may find it more workable than you think--it's certainly not some apocalyptic, game-breaking thing they got rid of--if it was that important, why was there no real pressure in the previous two editions to make that stat more meaningful?

 

 

Ah, but I've pulled a few stitches off the wound...best to just back away slowly, while smiling and nodding my head...

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I really didn't want to go over old ground but I'm with Markdoc. It seems you've way overcomplicated what was a simple solution. of course it seems to me even a incompetent fighter with super speed and reflexes would effectively be pretty effectively competent. after all her enemies are mostly moving in slow motion. ( maybe that's my problem I can't get stuff like that to make sense to me) Maybe buy back her familiarity with her fists LOL. Go outside the box and buy negative skill levels

 

Figurers comes down to preference I know. the separation just breaks my sense of suspension of disbelief and elegance of design so completely it may be years before I can look at it without a elemental response. the CV break was what finally did it for me.

 

COM- I would have preferred it be expanded on rather than dropped. As I've mentioned before COM as opposed to the way GURPS does it was one of the selling points for my group on HERO. We like the comparative number. Striking appearance is just less meaningful to us no matter what you back it with.

 

RexMund-- If you mean Unified power replaces ECs then i must have gotten the same version of 6th that many of the people her seem to have gotten of 5th because I don't see. I don't think multiple similar powers are worth anywhere near full cost and unified power isn't really quite make it for me.

 

The whole you get a certain amount of points and "justify" them with complications doesn't work for our group. we have disadvantage levels all over the board from just a little over 100 to much more and it always worked for us. The disadvantages always worked for us to make tall the characters competitive . the new way seems really restrictive. Make the character till tis done and stop is our motto.

 

I could go on but i really don't see the point. I'm glad the new stuff works for you and you're welcome to go on how wonderful it is but if you try to convince me . its just going to make me vocalize my objections again. Steve and co is still getting my business Just I confined my core book to PDF basic. I'm looking forward to many other things just not the retreads as I said.

 

Speaking of which The folks here are way smarter than GURPS , who kind of got mired in the retreads by having cool NEW stuff on their agenda. I'm so glad HERO can still make a profit on real books also unlike Steve Jackson games. Well done guys. looking forward to amny of the new releases which will be useful even for stick in the muds like me.

[RexMundi]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Gotta say....Great examples on all sides of the Blur!! conversation... Just from a trouble shooter point of view, I lean towards the 6e version without a doubt. Though, I can also say I have done my share of kludge, it's not something I miss anymore....

 

Like Comliness......since I granularized the Striking Appearence to a scale very similar to what Megaplayboy scripted up there. My one Uber Power Gamer player ......(Ever create one of those monsters by accident, heh......I've created three of them), he misses Elemental Control because he was well....the worlds most uber power gamer point cruncher obnoxious plumber on the planet. Talking a good Month elapsed time for him to create a character. It had to be fine tuned that much and then fine tuned again in comparrison to the rest of the party.....

 

BUT, even he has admitted the "need" that he felt to be that way to be on the same "comic scale" as the rest of the players, isn't there with 6th, just simply because of the greater granularity control one can effect with Talents, and the Build examples like Blur!!.....

 

That's the cool thing about threads like this when they work right. Both sides got good points and good examples and since I play all editions, it's good to see all examples.

 

~!Rex

[Matt Holck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

why not just have Blur do less damage if she's no good in combat?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

One of the issues I had with COM in the old edition was that, mechanically, you got oddities like there being no functional difference mechanically between, say, an 18 COM and a 22 COM. Both got you the same complimentary roll, and if you added dice to PRE attacks, the same number of dice added. But an 18 cost 4 points and a 22, 6. Also, the half point per point thing meant, in practice, no odd-numbered COM scores. Which reduced it from 31 points of granularity(from 0 to 30) to 16. And once you factor in the undifferentiated values, you get a scale like this:

0/2: 9- roll, no dice added

4/6: 10- roll, half die added*

8/10/12: 11- roll, 1 die added*

14/16: 12- roll, 1.5 dice added*

18/20/22: 13- roll, 2 dice added*

24/26: 14- roll, 2.5 dice added*

28/30: 15- roll, 3 dice added*

*--if adding 1d6 for every 10 points of COM over 0; subtract 1d6 if you start at 10 COM instead

7 meaningful levels of granularity, in all, for most campaigns. I got more than that out of SA, just going from a "12 COM"(1 point on appearance) to a "22 COM"(6 points on appearance).

 

You also get to make distinctions like "well, she's very attractive to most people, but if you're really into buxom redheads, she's sizzling hot" or "most people wouldn't find him attractive, but chicks who dig nerds will think he's cute". You can also write up Talents like Babe Magnet: +4 SA, limited group: women with at least one level of SA (...the intermediate version of this adds some Luck dice, and the strongest version tosses in a Summon...).

"Comeliness wars" have been considered almost universally annoying in virtually every campaign I've ever played. I don't terribly miss that particular aspect of the old stat.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I really didn't want to go over old ground but I'm with Markdoc. It seems you've way overcomplicated what was a simple solution. of course it seems to me even a incompetent fighter with super speed and reflexes would effectively be pretty effectively competent. after all her enemies are mostly moving in slow motion.

 

Sure. Against normals, she was great. OCV 6 is pretty good when you're fighting people with DCV of 3 or 4. Not as useful against battle-hardened supervillains.

 

( maybe that's my problem I can't get stuff like that to make sense to me)

 

I guess that would be a problem. Maybe none of your players has ever come up with a concept like this, but outside of your group, it does happen. People come up with ideas that are just a little bit different; they want to play a character just a little bit different.

 

Maybe buy back her familiarity with her fists LOL. Go outside the box and buy negative skill levels

 

Of course. This is Hero. There's probably a half-dozen ways to do what I wanted to do, some better than others, some more kludgy than others. And now, there's one more: Buy DEX, OCV, and DCV separately. It's simple, elegant, and does exactly what I want to do. And it doesn't eliminate any of the other ways of doing things, if someone wanted to do it differently. You can still do it the old way ("I've got a 30 DEX, which means I should also buy a 10 OCV and DCV"). But this is another tool in the toolbox, and speaking from experience, it works beautifully.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Indeed, Blurr!! is an easy build. Somewhat inefficient, yes, but not difficult. As others have pointed out, just use a Physical Limitation to represent her complete lack of combat ability. Or simply "sell off" her Everyman WF-Unarmed combat, which would apply a -3 OCV penalty to fighting with her fists.

 

Thus you could do Blur!! with a DEX 28 which gives CV 9, but her OCV would always be 6. give her another +5 DCV Levels (25pts) for a DCV of 14 (pretty good for a speedster) Don't forget Martial Dodge and the other evasive maneuver (I forget the name...+4DCV F/Move). Defense Maneuver IV so her Defensive Combat Skill Levels are essentially Persistant unless she's sleeping or stunned (forgot about that one, didn't you!) or you could simply purchase Defensive Combat Skill Levels with the Persistant advantage applied to them (yes, they are 5pt levels, so it works! Another one you forgot about) and absolutely no need for Combat Luck or having to buy Dex Skill Levels or buying up individual Dex skills with this particular writeup.

 

Is it easier in 6th? Probably. Seems to me that it is a bit easier to customize such concepts to your specifications in 6th. Thats always a good thing. But i've never had a problem with these particular sorts of writeups, even back in the 4th edition. Then again, I tend to think outside the box when it comes to character creation. I have no problem with piling on the Skill Levels or Lightning Reflexes or other Limited Characteristics to get the character where I want them to be. Personally, I would probably write up Blur!! with a Dex of 20, +10 Lightning Reflexes, +5 DCV Levels bought Persistant, Defense Maneuver IV, Speedster Martial Arts concentrating on Escapes and Dodges, +5 Combat Skill Levels with her Martial Art. I wouldn't buy up her Dex skills at all because the way I see it, being a speedster doesn't make you any better at Acrobatics, driving or climbing, you just do those things much faster than other people.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Agreed

there is little reason to couple DCV with OCV

 

 

in first

martial arts would give DCV bonuses but no OCV bonus

in fact, the offensive strike had a -2 OCV penalty

further, one could take a half move to do acrobatics to gain another +2 DCV with a -1 OCV for the half move

 

This resulted in high DCV character that are always moving with a relatively low OCV

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I was going to counter but we're just going over old ground. I'll just bow out with saying I'm just not seeing anything including examples I couldn't do already and too much work to get other things back to where I want them.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

On a side note, the new rules require a rewrite of some builds. For example, Kinetik in Champions 6e has the same Dizzying Spin Drain DEX that he had in Champions Universe 5e - BUT it no longer affects OCV and DCV! I think that was an oversite, and that the build should have had Expanded Effect at the +1 level to affect OCV and DCV as well. Also note that the DCV Drain has half effect, due to its being a related defensive ability... maybe also buy twice the dice to Drain DCV. (Assuming that the intent was to duplicate the 5e Power.)

 

Also, all the HKA writeups I remember top out at 2x the base DCs, even though that's no longer the standard rule.

 

These aren't *problems* with 6e per se - just a reminder that you have to keep the rules changes in mind when designing to make sure you get the right effect.

[Matt Holck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

anyone who filters advantages on an HKA through its strength should probably pat a proportionate amount into the HKA

to reflect the strength gaining that advantge like armor pierce or selective fire

otherwise

High strength characters can gain advantages for the strength (such as Effects Disolid)

by placing those advantages on a 1 pip HKA

[dmjalund]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

as far as I am aware the DCV characteristic still goes to zero when you do anything that has 0 DCV limitation. so Blur!! as written would be no harder to hit than the average Joe (or Jane) when Stunned. I wonder if there is any advantage you could apply to DCV that could make it less reduceable?