JmOz Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 One of the greatest strengths of the Hero system is that you can build powers in a multiple number of ways to get the same effect, so I am wondering what methods others have used for things that Steve and Crew have given official methods for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 I do not think there are that many characters who have been given "official" powers. I think there are certain powers which seem nearly impossible to build, and thus get an official ruling (the Jericho Effect is a perfect example of this), but for the most part there are only a few of those types of powers. Perhaps if you could give us some specific examples we can give you a better answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Inherent Growth/Shrinking doesn't work for every big/small character, but it does for most of them. I will never understand why 5th goes so far out of its way to quash this practice utterly. It's simple and usually works exactly as desired. That's my main break from by-the-book construction methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith I do not think there are that many characters who have been given "official" powers. I think there are certain powers which seem nearly impossible to build, and thus get an official ruling (the Jericho Effect is a perfect example of this), but for the most part there are only a few of those types of powers. Perhaps if you could give us some specific examples we can give you a better answer. Why bother, you gave a perfect one with the Jerico effect, other things off the top of my head is combineing vehicles or time stoping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 I really wish they'd publish a definitive time-stopping power. Really. The best I can figure is: 1. An area effect Entagle, constant, NND (defense is the target possessing his/her own time manipulation powers), IPE, opaque to all sense groups, megascale big enough to cover entire campaign setting, personal immunity. 2. 100 or more STR Telekinesis with the same area of effect, personal immunity, and IPE to hold inanimate objects in place. 3. Total Life Support with the same area of effect. It would all probably have to be 0 END, too. Anyway, this NEEDS to show up somewhere. In the UNTIL powers book ideally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted February 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Actualy a while back Steve did do a definitive time stop power, it is I think going to be in the next Digital Hero (and am sure it will be in the new powers book coming out as well) My form of that one is a 40d6 Suppress on speed with a link of 1" Flight, and a link of a FW that surrounds the field, remember Personal Imunity The Flight is to prevent things from falling, the forcewall stops incoming attacks and the suppress stops everything from moving, also needed is Invisibility to all senses linked to it as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz Why bother, you gave a perfect one with the Jerico effect, other things off the top of my head is combineing vehicles or time stoping Jerico Effect (Monolith version): 43 Jericho Effect: Elemental Control, 86-point Powers 23 1) Grab The Body: Mind Control 10d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/4), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (100 Active Points); Feedback (Character Takes All Damage Possessed Character Takes) (-1), Eye Contact Required (-1/2) 4 22 2) See Through Possessed Eyes: Clairsentience (Sight Group; Additional Sense Group: Hearing Group, Additional Sense Group: Smell/Taste Group, Additional Sense Group: Touch Group), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/4), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (87 Active Points); Only Through Eyes Of Possessed (-1) 4 8 Disappear: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Linked to Mind Control (-1/2) Time Stop (Monolith version): 97 Temperal Suspension: Drain 3d6: SPD, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (6" Radius; +1), Selective Target (+1/4) (97 Active Points) Vehicle Merging (Monolith version) 36 Morph Vehicle: Multiform (1000 Character Points in the most expensive form) (200 Active Points); OAF Blue Vehicle (-1), OAF Red Vehicle (-1), OAF Green Vehicle (-1), OAF Yellow Vehicle (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith Jerico Effect (Monolith version) Time Stop (Monolith version) Vehicle Merging (Monolith version) *Sneaks in and steals ideas while Monolith's titanic back is turned* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by MisterVimes *Sneaks in and steals ideas while Monolith's titanic back is turned* I knew I never should have left to go get my Visine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith Jerico Effect (Monolith version): 43 Jericho Effect: Elemental Control, 86-point Powers 23 1) Grab The Body: Mind Control 10d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/4), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (100 Active Points); Feedback (Character Takes All Damage Possessed Character Takes) (-1), Eye Contact Required (-1/2) 4 22 2) See Through Possessed Eyes: Clairsentience (Sight Group; Additional Sense Group: Hearing Group, Additional Sense Group: Smell/Taste Group, Additional Sense Group: Touch Group), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/4), Transdimensional (Single Dimension; +1/2) (87 Active Points); Only Through Eyes Of Possessed (-1) 4 8 Disappear: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (30 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Linked to Mind Control (-1/2) Time Stop (Monolith version): 97 Temperal Suspension: Drain 3d6: SPD, Autofire (5 shots; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (Half END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (6" Radius; +1), Selective Target (+1/4) (97 Active Points) Vehicle Merging (Monolith version) 36 Morph Vehicle: Multiform (1000 Character Points in the most expensive form) (200 Active Points); OAF Blue Vehicle (-1), OAF Red Vehicle (-1), OAF Green Vehicle (-1), OAF Yellow Vehicle (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2) The autofire spd drain needs another +1 advantage for being a nonstandard autofire attack for a total of 127 active points. Of course, this attack won't affect things like bullets, arrows, or falls... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Gary The autofire spd drain needs another +1 advantage for being a nonstandard autofire attack for a total of 127 active points. Of course, this attack won't affect things like bullets, arrows, or falls... I forgot about the Non-Standard Advantage. I guess that means the player will have to Rapid Fire it instead. That makes it cheaper anyway. True it will not stop someone from falling, but if you are going to want to cover the entire gambit of what time stop can do you might also want to build a Change Enviroment power with some TK to show the full range of effects from stopping time. My version just stops time for some selected individuals, not for the everything. Steve already did a version for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 My take on vehicle merging is a little different... Buy the BIG HONKIN' full voltron form as a vehicle. Give that vehicle a multiform to a lesser vehicle (Red) and give red an always on (at -0) inherent duplication to make the other vehicles. Net result, when the big V multiforms into the red sled, the others appear as well. you need only to add a limitation that you can only multiform back to the big V when all duplicates are present. -1/2 maybe -1/4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tesuji Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Book not in front of me... "Vehicle Merging (Monolith version) 36 Morph Vehicle: Multiform (1000 Character Points in the most expensive form) (200 Active Points); OAF Blue Vehicle (-1), OAF Red Vehicle (-1), OAF Green Vehicle (-1), OAF Yellow Vehicle (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2)" I think BTB the multiple foci allows each additional required foci to raise the limitation value by 1/4, not for each to be applied at full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by tesuji I think BTB the multiple foci allows each additional required foci to raise the limitation value by 1/4, not for each to be applied at full. I believe you are correct, but I would allow this due to the fact that all four characters lose all of their powers. Green, Red, Blue, and Yellow Vehicles are no more (and thus only one character gets to act and move). Merging robots are a rare thing overall though, and since it is not something which comes up often in most genres, I am not going to worry about it too much. I also do not remember the "official" version in TUV (do not have the book yet and do not remember the manuscript description) and I might end up liking that version better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Actualy a while back Steve did do a definitive time stop power, it is I think going to be in the next Digital Hero Quite right. The power to stop ALL TIME, throughout the ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith I forgot about the Non-Standard Advantage. I guess that means the player will have to Rapid Fire it instead. That makes it cheaper anyway. True it will not stop someone from falling, but if you are going to want to cover the entire gambit of what time stop can do you might also want to build a Change Enviroment power with some TK to show the full range of effects from stopping time. My version just stops time for some selected individuals, not for the everything. Steve already did a version for that. I think you would need some massive area effect NND or AVLD telekinesis to pull it off. The NND or AVLD part would be needed so that mere strength or power couldn't break out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Gary I think you would need some massive area effect NND or AVLD telekinesis to pull it off. The NND or AVLD part would be needed so that mere strength or power couldn't break out. Time Stop Effects: Change Enviroment 4" Radious +20 TK. 72 Active Points. This would hold anything up to 400 kg in place while the SPD drain made it impossible for those characters to take an action. You could put both the CE and Drain into a Time Stop Elemental to bring the power's costs down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 The problem with that is that many of us aren't interested in digital publications, PDFs, and the like. I've bought every HERO book so far, but I have no desire to try DH. I would like ideally time stopping in physical print somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Yamo The problem with that is that many of us aren't interested in digital publications, PDFs, and the like. I've bought every HERO book so far, but I have no desire to try DH. I would like ideally time stopping in physical print somewhere. The version of Time Stop that Steve did was pubished on the old forum. I would bet there will be an example or two of time powers in the USPD coming out in April though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 This would hold anything up to 400 kg in place while the SPD drain made it impossible for those characters to take an action. You could put both the CE and Drain into a Time Stop Elemental to bring the power's costs down. Yeah, but what about something like a massive 747 airliner zipping through the air with 700+ MPH of momentum behind it? Or stopping an entire planet in its orbit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Monolith Time Stop Effects: Change Enviroment 4" Radious +20 TK. 72 Active Points. This would hold anything up to 400 kg in place while the SPD drain made it impossible for those characters to take an action. You could put both the CE and Drain into a Time Stop Elemental to bring the power's costs down. If you don't completely drain the target's spd down to 0, you'll get the silly effect of a strong character being able to walk around and leave the area of effect, and a weak character not being able to do so. The NND or AVLD would stop this effect. Also, power defense stops the spd drain, which may not be appropriate. Also, you would need lots more TK, since timestop should be able to stop heavy objects like thrown tanks just as easily as light objects. The spd drain only stops controlled movement, not uncontrolled movement. I don't think you're allowed to link 2 attacks in the same EC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Gary If you don't completely drain the target's spd down to 0, you'll get the silly effect of a strong character being able to walk around and leave the area of effect, and a weak character not being able to do so. The NND or AVLD would stop this effect. Also, power defense stops the spd drain, which may not be appropriate. 3d6, on average, will drain a point of Speed. It is not always accurate, but close enough. Also a 5x Rapid Fire will will drain someone from 5 to 0 Speed. For characters with more Speed, or for poor rolls, you could easily state that it is a slowing process. That is all part of the SFX. Also, you would need lots more TK, since timestop should be able to stop heavy objects like thrown tanks just as easily as light objects. The spd drain only stops controlled movement, not uncontrolled movement. Once again, my example was for personal time stop, not the 10,000 point version Steve did for Universal Time Stop. The TK would slow things down, but it would not stop items weighing more than 400 kg which entered the field. I don't think you're allowed to link 2 attacks in the same EC. I did not say to link them. I said to put each of the powers into an EC slot to bring the cost down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Yamo Yeah, but what about something like a massive 747 airliner zipping through the air with 700+ MPH of momentum behind it? Or stopping an entire planet in its orbit? Anything can be built on enough points. Steve's example Universal Time Stop was several thousand points. Most 350 point superheroes will not have enough power to stop a 747 zipping through the air at 700 MPH. Some things cannot be done on 350 points, no matter how badly we would like them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Originally posted by Yamo Inherent Growth/Shrinking doesn't work for every big/small character, but it does for most of them. I will never understand why 5th goes so far out of its way to quash this practice utterly. It's simple and usually works exactly as desired. That's my main break from by-the-book construction methods. Agreed. Though I do like that they've opened up a way to purchase intermediate levels of all the mass/volume-changing powers. Particularly when it comes to Shrinking. In my Opinion Supreme, Shrinking gets kind of sick after three levels. Your DCV becomes so high that you'll never get hit by anybody. When I put that in a framework with other mass/volume-changing powers I wind up with a character who can grow or DI to a 60 STR, but can only shrink to 9" tall. That always seemed so lame to me. Except when he's in his Secret ID, the Atom never stands at more than 3" tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamo Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Anything can be built on enough points. Steve's example Universal Time Stop was several thousand points. Most 350 point superheroes will not have enough power to stop a 747 zipping through the air at 700 MPH. Some things cannot be done on 350 points, no matter how badly we would like them to be. Yes, but who said anything about 350 points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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