I love me some xenomorphs!

[Badger]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

By that date it may have become a moot point. Given that various governments and groups on Earth already know the Predator species exists' date=' and how dangerous they are, by the time humanity becomes an interstellar civilization I would expect war between them and us. Preds are very dangerous one on one, but I haven't yet seen indications they know how to wage war on the scale we do.[/quote']

 

I have my doubts that they can be "made war" with.

They're tribal wanderers. It's doubtful they would either have established colonies, or band together to defend the same.

 

well, I've always had the impression that if they did wage war of any real kind, it would be more of a guerilla style war. So, if they met up a battle that wasnt in their favor, they'd just sneak off till later.

 

In any case we dont know how many members of their species exist. If it is only a few million we might could handle them. If it is roughly the same as Earth now holds, we gots some problems. As our best advantage would be in outnumbering them.

[DusterBoy]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

A worse one was Alien: Resurrection. Not only are the secondary jaws revealed to be vacuum cleaner hoses, Ripley doesn't get to top Call, except briefly, when they first meet. I was longly for that, but then, my pervery is well known.

[Egyptoid]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

Ripley doesn't get to top Call' date=' except briefly, when they first meet. I was longly for that, but then, my pervery is well known.[/quote']

 

can you translate this sentence into english, please?

[Susano]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

can you translate this sentence into english' date=' please?[/quote']

 

I'm not sure I want him too....

[megaplayboy]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

WHat are you talking about? Highlander never had a sequel. Highlander never had a sequel. Never.

 

"There can be only one (film) !"

[DusterBoy]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

To "top" in BDSM-speak means to dominate. I was imagining Ripley making Call her submissive. And it never happened!

[Susano]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

To "top" in BDSM-speak means to dominate. I was imagining Ripley making Call her submissive. And it never happened!

 

Uhm... yeah.

 

I'll file that under Sigourney Weaver wanting to have a sex scene with a xenomorph. **blech**

[ender42]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

I'll file that under Sigourney Weaver wanting to have a sex scene with a xenomorph.

 

 

 

Wasn't that the one where Sigourney *WAS* a (partial) xenomorph? And the other chick a robot?

 

 

 

In any case, talking xenomorph-wise, the comics implied that they could over-run a planet and be active, mobile, and maintain their social / infrastructure (is an ant colony a technology? / society?)

 

Also, do AVOID the Terminator vs. Alien vs. Predator comic. You'd think there would be possibilities there, but it sucked, really badly. So bad, that even though I love all those franchises, and comic books in general, I decided not to get it.

 

If people are arguing that Predators are tribal, wanderers, etc... well how did they develop technology? Technology that includes weapons of mass destruction (fusion or nukes?). They also seed planets with Aliens (AvP - the awesome one; ie: the original comic series), amongst other things. I do think humanity might have some issues in taking them on in a war, even if they were outnumbered. Even in colonial marine era.

 

From the other active thread, the one on space combat (err, the first one, which is referenced in the one which is getting play), there's a link to a blog full of interesting thoughts that space warfare won't be like warfare as it used to be... more like terrorism and banditry, and other not-quite-warfare things.

 

Where do I submit errata to the Hero Team? I'll go looking. Personal message me, if you're reading right now.

[megaplayboy]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

I think the Preds who hunt for sport are similarly situated to the "great white hunters" of the 19th Century...wealthy dilettantes who fancied themselves brave and strong, all while leveraging every available advantage they had over the animals they hunted. Think about it--the Preds cloak themselves from detection, observe their prey for hours, then strike with superior weaponry/firepower. They do challenge themselves by fighting xenomorphs, but their interest in a stand-up, "fair" fight is a bit overstated in most cases, imo(though the exceptions are of course notable).

So there might well be a whole planet of Preds who spend most of their time working in the IT department, or building cargo ships and maintaining their trade businesses. There might even be a Predators for the Ethical Treatment of Anthropomorphs, who protest against the barbaric hunting of alien sapients for sport.

[Yansuf]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

It's interesting to me that they've done 2 AVP movies' date=' but they have yet to do what the video games have done...put it in the same future as Aliens, and bring the Colonial Marines into the equation. My assumption would be they'd be more effective against the Preds than 20th/21st century military forces(since they have motion detectors, other advanced sensors, and weapons powerful enough to put down a large target).[/quote']

 

The colonial marines would be able to stand against a lessor or even the same number of predators, if the predators haven't improved their technology. If they have, who knows?

Late 20th century military would have a very good chance against predators, IF the humans have a sensor (TI goggles, radar or sonar, or whatever works [note that we do NOT know what will work]) that defeats the predators cloaking.

[Yansuf]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

I think the Preds who hunt for sport are similarly situated to the "great white hunters" of the 19th Century...wealthy dilettantes who fancied themselves brave and strong, all while leveraging every available advantage they had over the animals they hunted. Think about it--the Preds cloak themselves from detection, observe their prey for hours, then strike with superior weaponry/firepower. They do challenge themselves by fighting xenomorphs, but their interest in a stand-up, "fair" fight is a bit overstated in most cases, imo(though the exceptions are of course notable).

So there might well be a whole planet of Preds who spend most of their time working in the IT department, or building cargo ships and maintaining their trade businesses. There might even be a Predators for the Ethical Treatment of Anthropomorphs, who protest against the barbaric hunting of alien sapients for sport.

 

I agree with most of this. But a predator PETA gives me a headache.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

In a large-scale confrontation between Predators and humans, I'm reminded of the example of the Kzin from Larry Niven's futuristic sci-fi novels. A very aggressive, imperialistic warrior species descended from creatures much like big cats on Earth, the Kzin had conquered other worlds by means of initial overwhelming force, against species with technology inferior to theirs. They had no experience with or need for more sophisticated tactics until they encountered Man, who as a race has been refining warfare for millennia. Even though the Kzin had an initial technological advantage, they suffered some serious defeats due to being unprepared for our ingenuity.

 

If we can take the references to past Predator visits to Earth in films like Predator II and Alien vs. Predator as canon, their cultural and scientific development appears to have stagnated for centuries, if not millennia. Given their apparently (although not definitively) tribal culture, the Predators may not even have invented the devices they use, but found or stole the tech of another race. I remember reading one comment (I think it was on these forums) that Predator eyesight is shown to be so poor without artificial augmentation, it's hard to believe they developed their equipment independently.

[Curufea]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

If people are arguing that Predators are tribal, wanderers, etc... well how did they develop technology? Technology that includes weapons of mass destruction (fusion or nukes?). They also seed planets with Aliens (AvP - the awesome one; ie: the original comic series), amongst other things. I do think humanity might have some issues in taking them on in a war, even if they were outnumbered. Even in colonial marine era.

 

Nothing precludes tribal wanderers from developing technology. You seem to be under the impression that they don't communicate with each other.

 

Tribal societies on Earth do. They even have regular large scale meetings. I can't see why the Predators wouldn't. Or are you assuming the Arabs never developed any technology, and that the Crusaders invented it all themselves?

[ender42]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

Well, that's hitting my point for me.

 

Someone was saying, they're wanderers, they could never get it together militarily. And I'm saying, either they are not (ie: we only see great white hunters, or coming of age rites, or something else) ...OR... they are wanderers, but can develop weapons of mass destruction (and eg, if like nukes - massive refining and technological infrastructure (all by their individual selves? SCARY)). ie: they're damn scary wanderers, if - in fact - they are, and they should not be dismissed as easy-to-conquer-militarily.

 

And, damn if we're not way off-topic for xenomorphs.

 

Point being, I don't think a current (mid-future) military unit could take a predator, even with sensors that see thru their cloaking. Laser, line-of-sight? Predator just steps back a couple of miles and lases away. Not as much fun for them, but there ya go.

 

Colonial Marines? Still don't have good lasers. Pulse rifle != laser. And that's not counting any other tricks up the predator's sleeve... Assuming you can get the predators to take a war seriously, instead of considering it a hunt. And if they start losing enough hunts, they'll either go away, or consider it a war (especially if we come after them)...

[Susano]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

Nothing precludes tribal wanderers from developing technology. You seem to be under the impression that they don't communicate with each other.

 

Tribal societies on Earth do. They even have regular large scale meetings. I can't see why the Predators wouldn't. Or are you assuming the Arabs never developed any technology, and that the Crusaders invented it all themselves?

 

The Mongols were a tribal society... and conquered most of Asia.

[Yansuf]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

And' date=' damn if we're not way off-topic for xenomorphs. [EndQuote']

 

True.

 

OK, I don't think that xenomorphs would be that big a threat to modern military, let alone colonial marines, in battle unless the xenomorphs can chose the terrain.

Even in close terrain, with proper tactics modern military would defeat them, unless the aliens have surprise or overwhelming numbers.

Xenomorphs are a horror to people who are unprepared and/or don't know what they are, but a trained military unit that knows what they are and is not heavily outnumbered would usually beat them.

[Susano]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

And' date=' damn if we're not way off-topic for xenomorphs. [EndQuote']

 

True.

 

OK, I don't think that xenomorphs would be that big a threat to modern military, let alone colonial marines, in battle unless the xenomorphs can chose the terrain.

Even in close terrain, with proper tactics modern military would defeat them, unless the aliens have surprise or overwhelming numbers.

Xenomorphs are a horror to people who are unprepared and/or don't know what they are, but a trained military unit that knows what they are and is not heavily outnumbered would usually beat them.

 

Unless you go the 40k route and keep introducing bigger and bigger xenomorphs as well as bio-weapons and the like.

[Curufea]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

There was also a suggestion that the xenomorphs are highly intelligent - far more intelligent than humans for example.

They were able learn the layout of a colony base - and how to turn off the electricity (specifically stated by Hudson) - within months of being born in the movie Aliens.

Most encounters in the media with xenomorphs have been with newly born hives. What would happen if they became civilised?

[Susano]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

There was also a suggestion that the xenomorphs are highly intelligent - far more intelligent than humans for example.

They were able learn the layout of a colony base - and how to turn off the electricity (specifically stated by Hudson) - within months of being born in the movie Aliens.

Most encounters in the media with xenomorphs have been with newly born hives. What would happen if they became civilised?

 

Starship Troopers.

[Badger]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

 

Wasn't that the one where Sigourney *WAS* a (partial) xenomorph? And the other chick a robot?

 

 

 

In any case, talking xenomorph-wise, the comics implied that they could over-run a planet and be active, mobile, and maintain their social / infrastructure (is an ant colony a technology? / society?)

 

Also, do AVOID the Terminator vs. Alien vs. Predator comic. You'd think there would be possibilities there, but it sucked, really badly. So bad, that even though I love all those franchises, and comic books in general, I decided not to get it.

 

If people are arguing that Predators are tribal, wanderers, etc... well how did they develop technology? Technology that includes weapons of mass destruction (fusion or nukes?). They also seed planets with Aliens (AvP - the awesome one; ie: the original comic series), amongst other things. I do think humanity might have some issues in taking them on in a war, even if they were outnumbered. Even in colonial marine era.

 

From the other active thread, the one on space combat (err, the first one, which is referenced in the one which is getting play), there's a link to a blog full of interesting thoughts that space warfare won't be like warfare as it used to be... more like terrorism and banditry, and other not-quite-warfare things.

 

Where do I submit errata to the Hero Team? I'll go looking. Personal message me, if you're reading right now.

 

I suppose they could have gotten the tech by contact with other space-faring peoples. Though, that does present its own scenarios. Primarily: You mean there could be badder@$$es out there than the Predators?

[Badger]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

The Mongols were a tribal society... and conquered most of Asia.

 

Damn, straight. All they'll need is the Predator version of Genghis Khan. (that'll scare the poop out of anybody)

[ender42]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

I don't think that xenomorphs would be that big a threat to modern military, let alone colonial marines, in battle unless the xenomorphs can chose the terrain.

Just a note, I *HAD* been talking about Predators vs. modern / near-future military or colonial marines.

 

As for Xenomorpsh vs. the military, I don't know. How impact resistant are they? How much damage do they take? Would a .45 put one down, or bounce/deflect, wing one, or just drip some acid onto you / your troops / your tank?

 

As for favorable environment, you really need to factor in if the environment is target rich. Any large animals (cows or cow analogues for AvP:the comic), or humans? Is it a large military force they're facing? Because Xenomorphs are like zombies on steroids, anyone they kill can be made to join their team, which can deceptively turn the tide, and quite quickly. They can take out, well, any technological equipment by dumping acid from a kamikaze attack onto it, or sneaking up and leaking a little.

 

Yes, if you could be and stay airborne and hose them down from helicopters / antigrav jetpacks from sufficiently far away (ie: not from a mere 20' up in a built-up urban environment, where they could get some elevation on you), you could take out a large number. But I suspect zenomorphs would just burrow, and eat everything they could grab. With their IR sensing, you'd have to cloak w/chillsuits to even begin to lure them out. That assumes you can make them hungry. They can generate new aliens from inorganic substances, 15lbs for a facehugger egg from every warrior, and more from a queen. They're quite the urban warriors, and can play take-away of urban centers. From a longer-term perspective, can you generate your population / technology fast enough (at all?) if you don't have citites (ie: distributed manufacturing)? If so, then you can beat them. If not, well it becomes problematic.

 

Speaking of which, when specifically have we seen Xenomorphs *not* choose their terrain? They seek out technology (electrical grids) and urban centers / ships (more food?), and tight spaces (urban, as well as play to their strengths). Which, should be reflected in some psych dependencies, or limitations.

 

Biggest thing, that I've not seen in any of the media, is if they can burrow / dig / or get thru concrete. A little tunneling would make them some fierce combatants, especially if they can use some acid-leak to take out rebar, etc.

 

They probably took out the electrical grid by noting something was way too warm, and dripping acid on / bashing it - which could be instinctual . AFIAR, they didn't go in and flip a switch. However, in the comics/books, they've managed some great planned escapes, including (perhaps?) literacy to learn what things are dangerous that they couldn't directly manipulate (if memory serves).

[Badger]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

There was also a suggestion that the xenomorphs are highly intelligent - far more intelligent than humans for example.

They were able learn the layout of a colony base - and how to turn off the electricity (specifically stated by Hudson) - within months of being born in the movie Aliens.

Most encounters in the media with xenomorphs have been with newly born hives. What would happen if they became civilised?

 

Well, it shows they have near-human intelligence. Personally, I'd say they might have intelligence similar to some of our primate cousins. (which would be a bit scary to think about in its own right)

[ender42]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

Also, from this prior thread (which discusses the mechanics of acid blood a fair amount - with a brilliant point: why're you modeling it anyways?):

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32926

 

There's a link to an example write-up

http://web.archive.org/web/20060911092347/http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptionsmovie/alien.html

[Lord Liaden]

Re: I love me some xenomorphs!

 

The Mongols were a tribal society... and conquered most of Asia.

 

Plus a decent sized chunk of Europe; but the parallel is slightly misleading. The Mongols were perhaps the most skilled light cavalry in history, practically living on horseback. They could move more rapidly than any comparable military unit of their era, and were experts at living off the land, minimizing the need for supply lines or trains. They were also masters at wielding the short composite bow from horseback, a weapon superior to bows used by their opponents. Otherwise, however, their technology was no better than that of their opponents, and in many cases it was probably initially acquired through contact with more "civilized" peoples like the Chinese. The Mongols also had no experience with siege warfare, or equipment capable of taking fortified cities; but Genghis Khan was shrewd enough to press-gang military engineers from conquered peoples with the knowledge to build and use siege engines. They did the same thing in administering conquered territories, conscripting scribes and bureaucrats. Much of their success can also be attributed to ruthless large-scale terror tactics, which often frightened people into surrendering at the first appearance of Mongol troops.

 

In the centuries before Genghis Khan and his vision of universal Mongol dominion, they and their related horse nomads confined themselves to raiding and pillaging. It took only a couple of generations after the Khan's passing for their empire to disintegrate.

 

The earlier Arab example is also a bit misleading. At the time of Mohammed the Arabs dwelling on the fringes of the great Arabian desert had large cities with sophisticated, stratified societies.

 

There's little in the source material about the Predator species to determine what if any of these factors apply to them.