My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

[Tasha]

Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

Fantastic thread' date=' and very helpful for a GM coming back to Champions. The point about writing out what the power does before sitting down to "system" it is perfect, and one I'm going to impress upon my players. Heck, I'll probably just point them at this thread.[/quote']

 

Thanks, that's why the thread is here

 

Thanks for the Bump.

[Tasha]

re: Bait and Switch Campaigns.

That's when the GM tells you they are running a Super Spy game. Gives you guidelines for that campaign and during the first or second adventure session switches the Genre ie to Champions Beyond. Suddenly the characters you created for the first game have little to no skills for the Actual campaign. Sometimes there are powerlevel differences after the bait and switch or the GM makes resources scarce so your ex SWAT guy with the M16 has the 4 magazines she had on her when the campaign switched. It's something that ALL GM's try at least once, some more than once. They think that it will be fun and challenging to play characters that are mismatched to the genre. What they get is POed players who were all geared up mentally to play one genre and are suddenly thrust into a different genre with no warning and no say in what is being played.

[Barwickian]

Nice to see this again. If there were an award for Best Single Post of All Time, this would have my vote. Cheers, Tasha.

[Barwickian]

Duplicate post.

[Barwickian]

Duplicate post.

[Barwickian]

Duplicate post.

[Old Man]

Tasha's character building process is much nicer than mine.  Mine goes something like:

 

1. Think of really cool character concept/name/costume/power combo

 

2. Invent a great origin story and background

 

3. Develop character personality and... character... from background and concept

 

4. Try to build character within point limitations

 

5. Fail miserably

 

6. Cripple concept to fit in points

 

7. Throw out origin story and background

 

8. Fill out the disads with enough psych lims to make character a basket case who belongs in an institution

 

9. Crumple up character sheet and make another brick instead

 

 

...only slightly exaggerated. 

[Chris Goodwin]

Mine is pretty similar to yours, Old Man, up to step 5...

 

5.  Go on a bike ride

 

...

 

...

 

11.  Hey, remember that character I played in that one campaign like 20 years ago?  Maybe I can re-create that one.  

 

...

 

...

 

47.  What were we doing again?  

[psyber624]

LOL. Mine start with a seed (power, archetype, background idea, something that strikes my fancy) and then bloom from there into full fledged characters. What sucks tho is that in the limited gaming environment I play in I am always the GM so I never get to breathe life into them (and have to be REALLY careful if they are NPC's not to dote on them too much).

[Greywind]

...which leads to me writing.

 

Seriously, always the GM...

[psyber624]

Ugh I wish I could write. I have written numerous short stories and even TRIED starting a novel once based upon my old D&D character (it was going to suck but I was of the mind that you have to start writing before you can get good at it). I read about 100 books a year and have a great imagination and tons of plot ideas but whenever I try to put them into an actual story they fall flat (or turn out to be horribly derivative, my favorite short story I wrote was pointed out to me to be derivative of SK's Carrie and I nearly cried when I realized how right they were )

[Greywind]

All I can say is "write". Whether or not it is derivative or not, write. I've written scenes that between my muse and my beta I won't use as they were written for one reason or another. That's not to say that they will never be used, but they will be revised if the basic frame will work elsewhere.

[Tasha]

Ugh I wish I could write. I have written numerous short stories and even TRIED starting a novel once based upon my old D&D character (it was going to suck but I was of the mind that you have to start writing before you can get good at it). I read about 100 books a year and have a great imagination and tons of plot ideas but whenever I try to put them into an actual story they fall flat (or turn out to be horribly derivative, my favorite short story I wrote was pointed out to me to be derivative of SK's Carrie and I nearly cried when I realized how right they were )

This is a bit Off Topic, but the only way you can get better writing is to keep writing. Keep writing all of those fan fict stories that have derivative plots. Eventually you will learn enough to write something that is publishable. The OP has been edited by me half a dozen times. Each time I try to kill the nasty grammar errors that creep into my prose. So don't give up, keep trying. Also I find that anything that I write makes great fodder for RPG worlds and plots. Just remember that the PC's will totally destroy your plot and be ready to allow them to do so.

[psyber624]

 

 

Just remember that the PC's will totally destroy your plot and be ready to allow them to do so.

One of my favorite GMing experiences was thanks to that one. Thinking on my feet I'm good at

 

But anyways thanks for the advice guys (and yeah, sorry for the OT drift here :/ )

[lou_tennant]

Tasha's character building process is much nicer than mine.  Mine goes something like:

 

1. Think of really cool character concept/name/costume/power combo

 

2. Invent a great origin story and background

 

3. Develop character personality and... character... from background and concept

 

4. Try to build character within point limitations

 

5. Fail miserably

 

6. Cripple concept to fit in points

 

7. Throw out origin story and background

 

8. Fill out the disads with enough psych lims to make character a basket case who belongs in an institution

 

9. Crumple up character sheet and make another brick instead

 

 

...only slightly exaggerated. 

That sounds very familiar. I can come up with great backgrounds, concepts, powers, etc - but they never fit the points and when I trim them down I am never happy with them.

 

Over time though you consider the background stuff then build things within the points and crowbar the background to fit.

[lou_tennant]

That sounds very familiar. I can come up with great backgrounds, concepts, powers, etc - but they never fit the points and when I trim them down I am never happy with them.

 

Over time though you consider the background stuff then build things within the points and crowbar the background to fit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would love to do it Tasha's way, but I always run out of points - hence crippling the character, then chucking it away in favour of something very simple.

[Hyper-Man]

There are plenty of munchkins around that would happy to help you out with fitting your concept to a budget.  We like challenges.

[Tasha]

I guess I should talk more about finding limitations and other ways to fit characters into a tight points budget. IMHO esp with 6e, Many GM's don't give enough points to make a rounded character that works with their average DC.

400pts makes a great DC 10 character, it kind of sucks for a DC 12 character. You can do it, but you end up stripping out all of the skills and other things that made the character more interesting than just a power construct.

I plan on basing my DC12 Champions campaign on 500 points. I should be able to get characters with a minimum of cheeze limitations like Power foci (AKA all of my powers are based in this little Piece of jewelry)

 

Thanks for a thread bump

[lou_tennant]

@Tasha, at DC8 what is your opinion of 'enough points'? I also assume we are talking Champions rather than a Fantasy Hero or Star Hero type game.

[IndianaJoe3]

I guess I should talk more about finding limitations and other ways to fit characters into a tight points budget. IMHO esp with 6e, Many GM's don't give enough points to make a rounded character that works with their average DC.

 

400pts makes a great DC 10 character, it kind of sucks for a DC 12 character. You can do it, but you end up stripping out all of the skills and other things that made the character more interesting than just a power construct.

 

I think that CV inflation is more of a problem than DC inflation. The only difference between a campaign based around CV 8 and one based around CV 12 is that the characters in the CV 8 game will have 40 more points to spend on other things.

[Tasha]

@Tasha, at DC8 what is your opinion of 'enough points'? I also assume we are talking Champions rather than a Fantasy Hero or Star Hero type game.

This is talking about Superheroic Point levels. Also from a 6e point of view. 5e's Figured Characteristics give a ton of stuff away for free.

 

Enough points for DC8 350-375 or so. Perhaps as low as 300. The thing for a GM to do when deciding on how many points they should allocate to Character gen is to create some characters of different types (ie Brick, Energy Projector, Martial Artist) make sure you give them as many Skills as you think PC's should have. My style is to have as many skills on my Champions characters as I would on a Heroic Star Hero or Modern era character. YMMV

[Tasha]

I think that CV inflation is more of a problem than DC inflation. The only difference between a campaign based around CV 8 and one based around CV 12 is that the characters in the CV 8 game will have 40 more points to spend on other things.

 

I am not even concerned about CV inflation. I have been playing at CV 10 average since the 80's (base 8 CV and 2 levels). I haven't see much CV inflation if any at all. We also seemed to instinctively use some kind of "Rule of X" to make the Martial artist's CV 12 do less damage and have lower defenses, than say the CV 7 Brick who does DC 14 and has 30 rDefense.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I'm partially on board with you Tasha.

 

I'm on board with the part about doing all you can to make your character fit into the campaign setting and power level of the game.

 

I'm not on board when it comes to the specifics about making sure your character hits certain benchmarks in character design.

 

I'm a proponent of designing your character to concept.  That means if my character's concept is a mentalist who has no physical fighting ability whatsoever, I'll build her to that concept.  She will not have a physical or energy attack power that can significantly damage an enemy.  She will not have defenses that can withstand the average damage of the campaign.  I will rely on my team mates to keep her from harm.  Of course, I will build her mental capabilities to such a degree that these "weaknesses" will not be easy to exploit.

 

If you can't tell, I'm kind of basing my description here on the original Psylocke from the X-men comics.  I loved her character.  Total mentalist with no physical fighting skills whatsoever.  The she disappears and comes back as a psychic ninja.  Totally ruined the character.  I loved the fact that Psylocke used to have to hang back in the combat and would use her mental powers to help out her team, and if enemies ever got close to attacking her, they would freak out and run to her rescue.  Now she just runs up and kicks people and shorts them out with her psychic knife.  That's wolverine's job.  She should hang back and read the enemies weaknesses and communicate them telepathically through the team mind link she's maintaining.  Now she just jump kicks people in the face.  *sigh*

 

Some characters just shouldn't have the defenses to handle a decent attack.  Some characters just shouldn't be able to damage a tough enemy.  Then they have to find a unique way of using their powers to defend themselves.

 

If every character in the campaign just hits the benchmarks, I feel you don't get the variation in character design and the crazy surprises during gameplay that I desire.

[Greywind]

Then you missed the part of Betsy when she was playing Captain Britain. That cost her her eyes.

[Tasha]

I'm partially on board with you Tasha.

 

I'm on board with the part about doing all you can to make your character fit into the campaign setting and power level of the game.

 

I'm not on board when it comes to the specifics about making sure your character hits certain benchmarks in character design.

 

I'm a proponent of designing your character to concept.  That means if my character's concept is a mentalist who has no physical fighting ability whatsoever, I'll build her to that concept.  She will not have a physical or energy attack power that can significantly damage an enemy.  She will not have defenses that can withstand the average damage of the campaign.  I will rely on my team mates to keep her from harm.  Of course, I will build her mental capabilities to such a degree that these "weaknesses" will not be easy to exploit.

 

If you can't tell, I'm kind of basing my description here on the original Psylocke from the X-men comics.  I loved her character.  Total mentalist with no physical fighting skills whatsoever.  The she disappears and comes back as a psychic ninja.  Totally ruined the character.  I loved the fact that Psylocke used to have to hang back in the combat and would use her mental powers to help out her team, and if enemies ever got close to attacking her, they would freak out and run to her rescue.  Now she just runs up and kicks people and shorts them out with her psychic knife.  That's wolverine's job.  She should hang back and read the enemies weaknesses and communicate them telepathically through the team mind link she's maintaining.  Now she just jump kicks people in the face.  *sigh*

 

Some characters just shouldn't have the defenses to handle a decent attack.  Some characters just shouldn't be able to damage a tough enemy.  Then they have to find a unique way of using their powers to defend themselves.

 

If every character in the campaign just hits the benchmarks, I feel you don't get the variation in character design and the crazy surprises during gameplay that I desire.

I have the benchmarks for beginners and for those of us who have never thought about WHY we choose Characteristics at the level we do. Sometimes when you look at the numbers you realize that buying 100 stun or 40 Con is excessive that it's highly unlikely you would Ever be hit with an attack that would come close to Stunning you (esp if the character has high Defenses as well).

 

It's a reality check. If you like the reality of a total Glass cannon then that IS your choice, but at least you made an informed choice. Which is much better than building your shiny new Mentalist and never getting to do anything because they are constantly being stunned and KOed on the second hit. Or that in all of the excitement of building a character you forgot to raise your end higher than base.

 

Those numbers can also help a player make an informed decision as to what Characteristics could be cut to shave points when trying to hit a point budget

 

Also, Characters like Psylock don't really tend to workout very well in an RPG. Unless they have Invisibility, High Stealth Roll, or Shrinking or even time to mind control/Mental illusion the opposition. You have a Gamer running the NPC's/Villains and any character that is starting to shred minds (ie do lots of stun) are going to be high on any characters "To hit with attacks before they take me out first" list.

  In my experience all PC's really need to be ready to take at least one hit or more at campaign average. Because it will happen and will be common. It's life in an RPG. It's one thing that doesn't translate from Comics (or Literature for that matter) very well. You don't have the writer giving certain characters immunity from attack. BTW I didn't like Ninja Psylock either.