Klytus Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 I know that there have been countless arguments on the topic of whether mutant power-suppression technology and such actually make sense, if it is truly consistent, just a writers crutch or what have you. I am not interested in that. For the sake of this specific post, let us take it as a given that in this campaign world, any and all "mutant" powers can be deactivated by the use of dampening fields and/or special collars. What is the best in-game mechanic to handle this? 1) Simply use Suppress? - I don't like this option, because for very powerful mutants, it would require HUGE amounts of dice in Suppress to turn off powerful mutants. For every device to be this powerful makes little sense. And in the comics where this tech is displayed, the same power suppressor that can keep ANY mutant in check, whether it is Rogue, Magneto or Beast. 2) Make every mutant buy a Vulnerability: x2 Effect from Mutant-Suppressors? - This is a little better, as it requires the Suppression tech to be less powerful to affect all mutants equally. But there is still the problem of very powerful mutants having some of their powers functional while under the collar - yet this also defies how it is portrayed in the comics. 3) Make each mutant buy a Physical Limitation: Powers do not work in an anti-mutant zone? - Simple and elegant. The problem is: how much do you charge for this? Clearly, this would not cost as much for a martial artist who has only spent 30 points for one mutant power when compared to an energy projector who spent everything BUT 50 points on powers. 4) Make every mutant in the game buy all of their powers with the Limitation: Does not work in a mutant-suppression zone. - This approach has the benefit of a universal weakness. It also clearly defines which parts of a stat are "mutant-powered" and which are not. I mean, if you have a brick with a 60 STR, exactly how much of that STR is because of his mutation? All but 20 points?15? 10? Making the player buy his "mutant" STR with the limitation ends the guess work. The obvious drawback, of course, is that it is very easily abused: mutants will have more real points to spend on their powers if everything has a flat -¼ Limitation on it. 5) GM Fiat. - I hate this option, as it makes it impossible for the players to make or use the tech when there might be good in-game reasons for them to do so. Opinions and feedback, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamashii2000 Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 how about a large transform - Superpowered to Normal human. Only works on mutant powers, all abilities come back when collar removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Hi Klytus, My only comment is to base your decision on how common mutants AND mutant dampeners are in your game. For example if EVERY Hero in the world gets their superpowers from mutations then the decision on how you want to handle it should reflect it. Another thing to consider is how easy it will be to get a dampener. Could a electronics expert go to his local electronics cludge shop and build one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Dispel can use the Cumulative Advantage. Just make a Continuous Dispel with a huge cap. It won't turn off all their powers right away, but it'll get 'em back down to zero after a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 I'd make it a huge suppresion. Although the limitation might work as well. In my FH campaign all magic must use mana. So in areas with out mana your up a creek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 I like this method. "Hi, I'm Tony. This is an aluminum baseball bat we've filled with lead powder." *bonk to the head* "Hey, Tony... that guy is starting to stir...." *bonk to the head* We could wipe out unemployment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Regarding Suppression of Characteristics, the new Champions and Champions Universe provide benchmarks for Characteristics verging into the superhuman. For Strength, for example, the maximum "human level" STR is 30; it is implicitly impossible for Homo Sapiens to exceed that without some extraordinary augmentation. So, you could say that a "suppress mutant characteristics" would not work below that level. I think that Tamashii2000's Transform suggestion would be the simplest way to achieve the effect you want. You could have the reversal condition for the Transform be "when victim leaves area of mutant suppression field." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Re: Mutant Power Dampers Originally posted by Klytus 5) GM Fiat. - I hate this option, as it makes it impossible for the players to make or use the tech when there might be good in-game reasons for them to do so. How does not working out the "cost" of a mutant nullification field stop players from using it. If the tech is there they can turn it against the bad guys whether or not they know how many points it cost. If you are worried about players wanting to buy mutant nullification as a power, you have the same problem with 3 and 4, as they don't talk at all about the cost of buying a mutant nullifier. Personally, I've done it by fiat every time I've done it. Assuming that what I was looking for was a "Mutant powers don't work here period" type thing rather than, "Mutant powers are nigh impossible here" type thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkmanDan Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Well, you're talking about a power that can suppress every single power of a huge class of people with wildly different special effects. Why shouldn't it be expensive as heck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Re: Mutant Power Dampers Originally posted by Klytus 4) Make every mutant in the game buy all of their powers with the Limitation: Does not work in a mutant-suppression zone. - This approach has the benefit of a universal weakness. It also clearly defines which parts of a stat are "mutant-powered" and which are not. I mean, if you have a brick with a 60 STR, exactly how much of that STR is because of his mutation? All but 20 points?15? 10? Making the player buy his "mutant" STR with the limitation ends the guess work. The obvious drawback, of course, is that it is very easily abused: mutants will have more real points to spend on their powers if everything has a flat -¼ Limitation on it. Unless your goal is not to have any PC mutants, this is your best bet. There is nothing unfair about mutants getting extra points when you are actually providing (Stupid, stupid, stupid) circumstances where it kicks in. Complaining it is unfair is pretty ludicrou since they will lose their powers whent the (Stupid, stupid, stupid) suppressors show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant for Hire Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 It's really an issue with Adjustment Powers This is the downside of HERO's generic powers that act on generic characteristics. Adjustment powers are the really funky case. It is possible to have an Aid power that works on an android, a golem, a human being, and an alien who is solidified energy. One of the things I've considered is defining Aid to only work on a class of power origins: 1. biological 2. technological 3. magical etc. Incidentally some powers could be hybrid and fall into more than one category. That's a downside for Drains and Suppresses but a bonus for things like Aid and Healing. In this case one could have stats defined as:' 1a. biological - normal human 1b. biological - mutant Why go with biological mutant for stats? Normal Characteristic Maxima for starters. Any character that buys stats at normal cost above NCM had best specify how the stats get to that level. And said stats are often immune to attacks that work only against normal biological humans. And it also means that that poisonous snake isn't going to be able to bite an android and damage it. Opinons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 If everybody in the campaign is a mutant, then it can just be a feature of the campaign. If there are some supers who aren't mutants, then the mutants should get the -1/4 limitation since they really are limited by this power dampener relative to non-mutants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamashii2000 Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden I think that Tamashii2000's Transform suggestion would be the simplest way to achieve the effect you want. You could have the reversal condition for the Transform be "when victim leaves area of mutant suppression field." Someone likes an idea I came up with!!!!!! :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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