"Wizard Proof" firearms?

[Sociotard]

What firearms are the most reliable under bad conditions or poor maintenance?

 

I'm considering a Dresden Files game, with the players as Wardens. Wardens are 'magic cops', like the Aurors of Harry Potter. (They're also the soldiers, guards, etc.) In the Dresden Files setting, people with enough magic power to be considered 'wizards' have an aura that ruins technological items. Electronics seem the hardest hit, but things with delicate or precise mechanical parts get hit too. The problem gets even worse if the wizard is excited or stressed, as during a fire fight.

 

Wizards who do use guns prefer them to be super reliable. Sure, they keep them clean and well maintained, but a well-kept gun in a wizards hand shoots like it has been kept in a pickle barrel, then dragged through a swamp and up a sand dune.

 

So, what weapons resist jams and misfires under even the worst conditions? I already have a nice list of assault rifles (AK47 being the most popular, with SKS getting good remarks too). It's everything else I lack. Basically, I want to make a list for the "Warden's Armory". I'd like a list of the most reliable weapon in a dozen catagories, anything man-portable. That includes mortars and recoilless rifles. I just want a list so I can have pictures and such to show.

 

Swords (already have; the wardens get their own brand of magic sword in the earlier books)

Crossbow (as near as I can tell these are all alike, so this isn't as important)

Air Rifle (I'm going to call this an 'in house' model as well)

Revolver

Semi-Automatic Pistol

Submachine Gun

Rifle (Mauser Model 98

Assault rifle (AK47 or SKS)

Machine Gun

Shotgun (aren't these all the same?)

Claymore (only one make as far as I know, but it needed to be in the armory)

Grenade launcher

Mortar

Recoilless Rifle

Machine Gun (light, medium, heavy)

Rocket Launcher (if you can think of one. As near as I could tell they all had sensitive electronics)

Demolitions (what is the most reliable explosive? Least likely to go off with an oops? Same with detonators, since most of those seem to be either electronic or have delicate mechanical timers. I was looking at those WWII chemical "pencil" timers.)

 

As near as I can tell, flamethrowers are right out. Too sensitive. If there is any catagory that should be on the list and isn't, let me know. I'm just looking for "most reliable" in each catagory, and each catagory has to be "man portable", even if it takes a tripod or something to actually shoot.

[Clonus]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

The important thing is to use revolvers and not automatic pistols. Pistols require much finer tolerances.

[Ragitsu]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Bolt-action rifles are notably still more reliable than semi-automatic rifles.

[Sociotard]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

So I should be more worried about "category" and less about "best in category"?

 

I guess that makes sense. It's too bad. I liked the idea of a player taking down a Ik'k'uox with a recoilless rifle.

[Cancer]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

If you need a heavy weapon, you want a PIAT rather than a rocket; the motive power in the PIAT was a big spring. Instant back sprain if you screwed up while cocking it, though.

[Cancer]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

There's something to be said for giant slingshots, too.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Yeah, mechanical action weapons all around.

Pump shotguns, lever guns, wheelguns, bolt actions for super accurate fire. I recon the Wardens probably have some wicked good old school gunsmiths they can tap for custom work. Spring wound drum on a lever action 12 gauge sounds nasty, and I've always liked me a good Mare's leg.

 

But for specific suggestions...

The LeMatt revolver, in a modernized model, would be nearly ideal for a warden, I'd think. 9 rounds in the outer cylinder and a shotgun shell in the middle for extra oomph and an easy gunbelt sized slayers kit of special shells.

 

Alaska Arms makes a stubby little sawn off lever rifle called the Bushmaster designed to kill Kodiac Bears. The also market a cop model for blowing out engine blocks. .500 Alaska Magnum, baby. Probably do just fine against your average tentacled monstrosity or Ogre.

 

Edit: Hmmm... return of the Gatling gun? We've figured out most of the tricky mechanicals over the last hundred years, just need to replace the electric motors we have now for an updated mechanical way to move the action. Big clockspring coil might do the job without getting too mucked up.

[Beast]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

the older the weapon the better but that is only if you are going to be close to a wizard(none of the others seems to affect stuff)

if your going to shoot a wizard do it from long range with a heavy round when he least expects it(words of wisdom from the Hellhound)

 

If you can have a gas that is generated by burning(have that CS grenade cooking in flight) should work

[Ragitsu]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

A tactical flashlight can be very distracting once aimed at the eyes. Handy for disrupting some spellcasters, certainly.

[Ragitsu]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

The important thing is to use revolvers and not automatic pistols. Pistols require much finer tolerances.

 

Funny thing about these terms: I always use "pistol" and "handgun" interchangeably, and use both to refer to magazine fed hand sized firearms (like a Glock 19) and revolving chamber hand sized firearms (like a Smith and Wesson M629).

[Duane From RI]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

I am not familiar with Dresden files. Many weapons are precision manufactured, but the parts involved are not small, are far from delicate and are intended for use in the worst climates around the world.

I'm not a shooter but the web is full of shooters who have experience out in Iraq and Afghanistan. One thing that occurs to me is that the latest line of weapons from H&K (sniper rifles, light machine guns, personal defense weapons, carbines) are being used in Africa, South East Asia, South America and the Middle East. These weapons are all based on a rotary bolt system developed for the G36. This is the latest system designed by H&K and is replacing the delayed roller back system. Pop out onto the web and look into the following: H&K G36, H&K HK416, H&K MP7.

The old delay roller back system was pretty reliable and was used all around the world, but I'm pretty sure that it would definitely fit the concept of "precision". The parts involved were all quite strong, nothing delicate, but they had a way of moving together that was really special. Nonetheless it was used in deserts, jungles, tundra and so forth. Look up the G3 rifle and the MP5 submachine gun.

I know quite a bit about the geometry that makes the delay roller back system work but I know nothing about the new H&K system except that it has caught on like wildfire across the globe. Nonetheless there are lots of website forums that could help. Pop onto to forums dedicated to H&K, Israeli Military Industries, FN Hertsal, Steyr and ask about dust tests.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

I am not familiar with Dresden files. Many weapons are precision manufactured, but the parts involved are not small, are far from delicate and are intended for use in the worst climates around the world.

I'm not a shooter but the web is full of shooters who have experience out in Iraq and Afghanistan. One thing that occurs to me is that the latest line of weapons from H&K (sniper rifles, light machine guns, personal defense weapons, carbines) are being used in Africa, South East Asia, South America and the Middle East. These weapons are all based on a rotary bolt system developed for the G36. This is the latest system designed by H&K and is replacing the delayed roller back system. Pop out onto the web and look into the following: H&K G36, H&K HK416, H&K MP7.

The old delay roller back system was pretty reliable and was used all around the world, but I'm pretty sure that it would definitely fit the concept of "precision". The parts involved were all quite strong, nothing delicate, but they had a way of moving together that was really special. Nonetheless it was used in deserts, jungles, tundra and so forth. Look up the G3 rifle and the MP5 submachine gun.

I know quite a bit about the geometry that makes the delay roller back system work but I know nothing about the new H&K system except that it has caught on like wildfire across the globe. Nonetheless there are lots of website forums that could help. Pop onto to forums dedicated to H&K, Israeli Military Industries, FN Hertsal, Steyr and ask about dust tests.

 

Wizards in the Dresden Files setting regularly make the laws of physics sit up and beg, so as a side effect things that rely on said physics occasionally pout. Primers don't fire, powder burns wrong, tolerances get all tweaky. electrical currents freak out, microchips whimper and die. Loads of Quantum Uncertainty. A H&K is precision German engineering. Pretty good choice for a lower powered Warden if you can work around the misfires. A stronger Wizard would probably break it tho.

[Sociotard]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Yeah, Harry Dresden himself usually uses a trusty revolver, and even that occasionally has problems.

[Bloodstone]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Yeah' date=' Harry Dresden himself usually uses a trusty revolver, and even that occasionally has problems.[/quote']

 

Has Dresdan ever caused other people's guns to misfire? I don't think so, but I can't recall off hand. Obviously, computers fry just by him walking into the room. He can't even sit in a movie theater without the projector getting screwed up. But I don't recall Murphy, Kincade or anyone else trying to keep him away from their guns. They have been in massively stressful life or death situations, fighting back to back with multiple wizards and I can't recall Dresdan ever jinxing a gun into uselessness.

 

So yeah, complexity may be a factor, but lets also consider distance...

 

In that case, a wizard that relies heavily on firearms may take some extra precautions:

 

- Trading them out often, possibly New York Reload style while yelling Popcorn!!! In this case, it's not a matter of reliable guns so much as easily replaced guns

- Storing them in special lead lined cases (Dresdan himself would at least appreciate the Superman reference)

- Maybe a "squire" to help maintain or even carry them when not in use. ("Bob!!! Gun!!!").

- Gloves might be a good idea and could be a great trademark. Just make sure they aren't orange and Kirby dot style leopard print or an aspect of Dr Strange might come after you from the Nevernever

[freakboy6117]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Flame thrower should be fine there mechanically very simple a pressure tank and a valve though probably a bad idea considering how many people in the Dresden verse can throw incediary magics around.

[Manic Typist]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Has Dresdan ever caused other people's guns to misfire? I don't think so' date=' but I can't recall off hand. [/quote']

 

Yes. So much so that a line of men with AKs unloaded on him until they either ran out of ammo, jammed due to the sheer amount of magic being tossed around, or misfired and exploded.

 

As an aside, he CAN reduce the likelihood of his presence affecting devices with an effort of will. But he has to keep it up, and its tiring. On the reverse, it's VERY easy for him to channel the energies to deliberately mess up technology.

[kiahoga]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

I can see them using something along the lines of the new Metal Storm weapons, which is a tube with the bullets stacked end to end, and set off with a single electric pulse.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

I can see them using something along the lines of the new Metal Storm weapons' date=' which is a tube with the bullets stacked end to end, and set off with a single electric pulse.[/quote']

 

Electricity is one of the elements that gets especially jinxed by a wizards aura. Having the first round in the stack misfire, or an entire tube igniting simultaneously could be very unpleasant.

[wcw43921]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Why bother with technology then? It seems to me that an imaginative wizard could stack a number of bullets metal-storm style in something akin to a muzzle-loader--then when the target presents itself he takes aim and uses telekinesis or something like it to propel the bullets one or more at a time out of the barrel. Ballisitics and a steady hand take care of the rest--or so we hope.

 

But with no moving parts or chemical reactions to foul up, it should work better for a wizard than anything as technologically sophisticated as an automatic pistol or a revolver, or even a breech-loader.

 

Hope that helps.

[Sociotard]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Again, it has to do with the setting. The Wardens exist to enforce the seven laws, one of which is "don't kill with magic". If you shoot a suspect with a gun, you might get a stern talking to by your superior about how suspects are supposed to get a trial, but you won't get in a lot of trouble. If you kill a guy with telekinesis, you automatically become a suspect yourself. Even if the trial declares your act forgivable for self defense or some such, you will almost certainly lose your position and will probably go through a period of probation.

 

There appears to be a little wiggle room. In the books, wardens use magic to pin a guy down while they kill him with swords.

[Manic Typist]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

Why bother with technology then?

 

In short, technology is much more efficient at what you describe. Physics are still very relevant to them, just it tends to have more wiggle room. Force= mass * velocity, for instance, comes up in almost every book.

 

Just in general, the more advanced the technology the more likely it is to have problems with wizard powers being tossed around.

[cutsleeve]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

I would say that double barrel shotguns and single shot rifles and pistols would be the most magic proof because they are the simplest and most reliable. Something like a Rossi single shot, Rossi wizard, Harrington & Richardson rifles, Sharps rifles, Thompson Center Contenders, Stoeger Double Defense, etc. etc.

 

Basically a barrel, a cartridge, a firing mechanism, and a stock.

[Ragitsu]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

That's one thing I love about Harry Dresden: he's skilled enough to wield arcane energies that would make most of mankind quiver in their boots, but he's also wise enough to carry a .38.

[freakboy6117]

Re: "Wizard Proof" firearms?

 

another thought on flame throwers and then some general thoughts on magical firearms

something that occurs to me about flame throwers in the Dresden verse of all the mundane weapons harry has come up against the two most dangerous to him where a long range sniper rifle and a flame thrower the flame thrower is the weapon that nearly cost him his right arm. its defiantly a weapon to be feared in the magical community especially if used in ambush.

 

one thing we didn't see in the Dresden verse that Surprised me was enchantments to weapons them selves like glamoured pistols and blades to make them seem like something non scary to mundies or something like harry's force ring built into a baton or sword or even a gun butt.

 

another option to the wizard who finds the kind of fast passed high powered casting required of combat magic hard. might be a shot gun loaded with potions and pre-prepared spells and mystically appropriate ammunition my favorite example would be harry's handkerchief captured sunlight as a shotgun load it would make red and black court vamps unhappy or ancestral silver shots for loupe garou iron buck for faeries etc

 

my champions mystic uses a sawn off shot gun for this very reason and enchanted revolver [with a shard of the philosophers stone in its hammer] as well for all her silver iron and phosphorous bullet needs.