MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

 

 

Second, how big is this book gonna be (as in pages)?

 

Sorry I missed this question earlier, Zephrosyne. Mea culpa.

 

Honest -- I don't know. I can't know that until I'm finished with the writing and a rough layout is mocked up. At this point I don't know whether I can publish it as one volume, or two or more will be required.

 

I can offer this as a data point though. 6E1 & 2 are combined about 550,000 words. The MH manuscript, which is far from finished, is currently at 425,000 words. So make of that what thou wilst.

[Lord Liaden]

Whether MH should be one book or two (or more) would probably merit a separate discussion once the book is closer to completion.

[PhilFleischmann]

Wow.

 

Thanks for all that!  It sounds amazing!

 

It really didn't take me that long to write that outline, because I wrote it a long time ago.  What took a while was finding it in the *old* section of these threads.

 

My main problem with the old deendee DDG* was that even though it tells me that this particular god wields a +4 spear that does 4d10 of damage, it gives me no clues about what I'm supposed to do if I'm one of his clerics or worshipers.

 

*I have the first edition, with Cthulhu and Elric and all the other copyright-violating stuff.  It might be worth some money on eBay.

[Steve Long]

 

 

Whether MH should be one book or two (or more) would probably merit a separate discussion once the book is closer to completion.

 

Yup, that's true. At this point it's all idle speculation. I've never done a book set with a slipcase though, so it's fun to daydream about.

[Steve Long]

 

 

My main problem with the old deendee DDG* was that even though it tells me that this particular god wields a +4 spear that does 4d10 of damage, it gives me no clues about what I'm supposed to do if I'm one of his clerics or worshipers.

 

I will do my best to make sure that's not a problem with MH.

 

 

 

*I have the first edition, with Cthulhu and Elric and all the other copyright-violating stuff.  It might be worth some money on eBay.

 

Currently I see some people asking $110-150 flat rate, but an ongoing auction hovering at about $50.

[Crueleye]

Maybe some Cthulhu Mythos deities?  Great Old Ones or Outer Gods?  

[Lord Liaden]

If Deities and Demigods had to pull Lovecraft's mythos over publication rights, I seriously doubt Steve would want to take on H.P.'s estate.

[Steve Long]

 

 

Maybe some Cthulhu Mythos deities?  Great Old Ones or Outer Gods? 

 

No, I'm sticking entirely to actual, real-world mythoi. And even if I didn't feel that way, the Cthulhu Mythos for the HERO System is probably a subject that deserves its own book.

[Nolgroth]

No, I'm sticking entirely to actual, real-world mythoi. And even if I didn't feel that way, the Cthulhu Mythos for the HERO System is probably a subject that deserves its own book.

 

The Heronomicon?

[Hugh Neilson]

I believe a lot of the Cthulhu Mythos is in the public domain now, as various works pass by the copyright dates. Paizo has included a lot of Mythos monsters, with no filing off of the serial numbers.

[Steve Long]

Yes, it's correct that a lot of Lovecraft's work is now in the public domain. But not necessarily all of it, and many parts of the Mythos created by other/later authors remain copyrighted AFAIK. In theory there are ways around all this, but since it's a subject I don't intend to cover it's a moot point.

[Hugh Neilson]

Yeah, it's trickling into Public Domain, not all copywritten yesterday and all free and clear today. Mind you, I suspect you could establish a pretty clear list of which works are, and are not, still copyrighted, and when those will lapse, with a level of research similar to that undertaken for real world mythoi.

But the Mythos is not real world mythology, and its inclusion would be slightly less supportable, I think, than a writeup of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (hmmmm...now there's a Kickstarter stretch goal  ).

The Cthulhu Mythos (under that name, or an homage) would be better as a Horror Hero supplement.

[Tanis Frey]

Yeah, it's trickling into Public Domain, not all copywritten yesterday and all free and clear today. Mind you, I suspect you could establish a pretty clear list of which works are, and are not, still copyrighted, and when those will lapse, with a level of research similar to that undertaken for real world mythoi.

 

But the Mythos is not real world mythology, and its inclusion would be slightly less supportable, I think, than a writeup of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (hmmmm...now there's a Kickstarter stretch goal  ).

 

The Cthulhu Mythos (under that name, or an homage) would be better as a Horror Hero supplement.

Or a Pulp Hero supplement.

 

Lovecraft will put his material into public domain for other writers to pen a story in the setting via his will.  But this was well before the advent of RPG.  DG&D with the Cthulhu Mythos was published at a time when the estate licensed the mythos a publisher.  Ever hear of Call of Cthulhu RPG?  That publisher sued TSR.  TSR opted to reprint without the Cthulhu Mythos and Elric saga characters.  (TSR heard from the Elric people also.)  TSR could have won the lawsuit but decided to settle as it was cheaper.  TSR was still a small company in late 70s.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Tanis Frey

[Hugh Neilson]

I'm not sure Chaosium had CoC or Stormbringer out before DDG. Wiki suggests DDG in 1980, CoC in 1982, so it may have been licensed at the time, almost certainly before a second DDG printing.

 

Here we go...

 

For the first 1980 printing, TSR obtained permission from Michael Moorcock for inclusion of Melnibonéan material (from his Elric series of books). The Cthulhu Mythos was believed to be in the public domain, so TSR assumed they could legally use it without any special permission. However, Arkham House, which claimed to hold the copyrights on a number of works by H.P. Lovecraft, had already licensed the Cthulhu property to the game company Chaosium. Furthermore, Chaosium had also licensed the Melnibonéan copyright from Moorcock. When Chaosium threatened legal action, the first printing was halted and the two companies agreed on a compromise: TSR could continue to use the material but must provide a credit to Chaosium to do so. TSR added the credit for the second printing of the book.

 

The Cthulhu and Melnibonéan sections were removed from the 1981 edition, making it a 128-page hardcover (and giving the original edition a high collector's value). TSR felt its material should not contain such an overt reference to one of its competitors and removed the two pantheons altogether, thus negating the need for the credit. For this reason, the first and second printings have generally been in greater demand by D&D fans and collectors. The credit to Chaosium and incorrect page and pantheon counts were still included in some of the subsequent printings.

Anyway, clearly a tangent - back to Mythic Hero!

[Matt the Bruins]

For those jonesing for Lovecreaftean deities and creatures, Arcane Enemies already has the Champions universe take on that sort of thing in the chapter about the Kings of Edom.

[megaplayboy]

Honestly, if you have writeups for dozens of deities from real world mythologies, not that difficult to adapt the format and write up a few fictional ones as well.

[Matt the Bruins]

I do think figures from Lovecraft's work might present more of a challenge to that method than most.

[megaplayboy]

I do think figures from Lovecraft's work might present more of a challenge to that method than most.

Well, there are write-ups for one or two of the Kings of Edom(I think in the Demon handbook and elsewhere) and the sanity-blasting effects are well modeled there. Of course, the Lovecraftian deities aren't necessarily prone to vulgar displays of power, so calibrating their capabilities might be tricky.

[Hugh Neilson]

I don't think the issue is that it would be hard, but that it is not consistent with the vision for the book. Why not write up the Moorcock deities, the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the God Of Rear Service Entrances, while you're at it?

 

Mythic Hero is about bringing the real Deities of Myth to Hero, not fictional Deites.

 

It's not like Steve needs to pad the page count!

[Steve Long]

That last point is certainly true.

[JmOz]

Out of curiosity: what is the status on this?

 

Also regarding "Fictional Gods" I would say that it might be a good small press book (What ever they are called; $2-5 pdfs) after the main book is done.

[PhilFleischmann]

I don't know if this has been addressed already, but what about the illustrations?  I rarely ever see illustrations of RPG gods that look "good" - and by that I mean that actually look like gods.  Most of them either look like ordinary characters or monsters, and some look like superheroes.  I know it's a serious challenge to artists to really make their illustrations look "Mythic", but it seems that in most other RPG sources, they don't even try for a mythic look.  If the gods are "special" - something beyond even the mortal heroes that are the PCs and beyond the mastermind villains and powerful monsters - then they ought to *look* like it!

 

I know it's a tall order for an artist who is used to drawing superheroes or ordinary mortal characters and fantasy landscapes and cityscapes and monsters.  Let the illustrations of the gods look worthy of ancient tapestries and temple walls, huge statues and sacred altars.  It shouldn't necessarily be that difficult - pictures of gods generally don't need intricate detail.  After all, mere mortals never actually met these gods face-to-face, except in the myths themselves.  And the myths do not describe every detail of their clothing and facial features.  The pictures should be iconic and symbolic, even abstract to an extent - to give them an other-worldly feel.  If they look too concrete and realistic, it makes them seem more ordinary.

[Zephrosyne]

Hey Steve, there is one thing  I'm really curious about.  How many character points do your gods have?  Yes, I know it varies.  I'm sure Zeus has a good bit more than say Hermes.  Just give me a little teaser.  I don't need a character sheet.  I'm just curious about the point range of gods (not heroes and demigods, the big boys).  Please...a little somethin, somethin 

[Steve Long]

 

 

Out of curiosity: what is the status on this?

 

I was just heading here yesterday with a status update when an Internet outage derailed me. Now my Internet is back, so here I are.

 

The status is:  I have just finished the chapter on Hittite Mythology, and have begun the chapter on Incan Mythology! There's still a long way to go -- a year or years of dedicated work, at least -- but I am making as steady progress as I can.

[Steve Long]

 

 

I don't know if this has been addressed already, but what about the illustrations?

 

All I can say at this point is that I have given this issue considerable thought. My intention is to get absolutely the best art I can without spending myself into the poorhouse. I will lose money on the book if I have to, but it is going to be illustrated beautifully.

 

When I have some actual information, I'll definitely pass it along.