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[New Product] Champions Complete


Jason S.Walters

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Births in the United States (000s):

 

1990: 4,158

1991: 4,111

1992: 4,065

1993: 4,000

1994: 3,953

1995: 3,900

1996: 3,891

1997: 3,881

1998: 3,942

1999: 3,959

2000: 4,059

2001: 4,026

2002: 4,022

2003: 4,090

2004: 4,112

2005: 4,138

2006: 4,266

2007: 4,316

2008: 4,248

2009: 4,130

2010: 4,055

 

That took a surprising amount of digging. Thanks, Internet. Anyway, the point is that the current cohort of 15 year-olds in the United States is the smallest sincce 1989 (reflecting "bottom baby," 3.144 million births in 1975). The 15-year-old cohort for 2022 will be the largest since 1972, and the second-largest ever.

 

I don't have statistics to hand for RPG sales by age cohort, but I'm going to hazard a guess that we're looking at 15 year-olds as the main market. And, in fact, that the business will look to sell to them at least twice --as youngsters with time on their hands, and as nostalgic victims of mid-life crises. (You talking to me? You talking to me?)

 

An entry-level product aimed at this cohort has real potential. I'd be a little concerned that 2013 might be premature, but what do I know?

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Okay' date=' everybody who's been saying this is the kind of product they and their game groups have been wanting for years... time to pony up![/quote']

 

i'm willing to do just that one question tho will the martial ats book still be valid

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

This is good news! Derek's is as others have said "no slouch" and I look forward to seeing how he manages to put all this in to one beautiful package.

 

I think my major fear is the font will be teeny tiny extra small because my eyes aren't what they used to be ;)

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

And here I just received my copies of Hero System Volumes 1 (damaged cover) and 2 in the mail.;)

 

Not that I'm unhappy to hear about this or anything*. I actually purchased the books for my son and his group because I use to play Champions when I was his age. I was torn between buying the two volume and the basic rules because I was a bit worried about that the size of the two volume rules would be a little off putting (as well as concerns about how his friends would afford the rules). The two volume ultimately won out because I liked how a lot of the powers had examples and because I'm a completist.

 

I think for people just getting into the game the thinner format will be much more accessible (Hey, when I first got into it it was something like 80 some odd pages). The fact that they won't have to sort through so many optional rules that aren't used in most Champions games (bleeding, hit locations, str mins, etc.) should definitely help the learning curve.

 

I'm really sorry to hear that the two volume ruleset is going out of print, however. I was playing Champions when Espionage was first released and I realized right at that point that the ruleset could be tweaked around for so much more than superheroes (I made a modified ruleset that was a lot like Fantasy Hero before it was first released) and ran a great campaign for a couple of years that was a superhero campaign but which did include lots of things such as hit locations, bleeding, an altered strength chart to reduce lifting, strength mins for lots of weapons an the ability for characters to purchase 'normal' equipment with money instead of character points (guns, swords, body armor, etc.). Definitely not a four color campaign but it worked really well for us.

 

I wish it were possible to have both the combined Champions Complete rules (as well as Fantasy Hero Complete, Star Hero Complete, etc.) to get people up an running with a single book and then a two volume "master set" of rules so that people could pull options into their game without it feeling quite so "cross genre". Additionally a master set like that might help keep the various Hero editions from drifting apart like they originally did.

 

However I understand all the problems with production runs and having to store slower moving material so I realize that such business decisions have to be made as taking the two volume ruleset out of print. The only thing I wonder is if it might not be possible to make a deal with some print on demand company so that it would still remain possible for people to order hard cover bound books (albeit the price would probably be something like $60 for volume 1 of the two volume set). Obviously people who purchase the PDF could locate a POD company themselves and do so but the ability to do it straight through the website would make it a much more user friendly operation.

 

*Packed in with the two books I ordered was a free Arcane Adversaries that I didn't order with a little Post-it making it clear it was a gift. I'm guessing this was to help ease the sting that some might have felt finding out that a week after they ordered their books they were going to go out of print and a new, cheaper book was being published. Even without the gift I am very happy with my purchase since I see real value in the two volume set in addition to the new book that is coming but I have to applaud you for your customer service on this. Thank you for thinking of us rather than simply sending off the orders and hoping people won't be too upset.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Now I'm curious about the other genres. :) Jason, will there be a corresponding Fantasy Hero Complete, Star Hero Complete, and so forth? Will we see "mini-complete" versions of the other genre books, perhaps coupled with a setting each?

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

That is my plan for the 40$ book + PDF combo

 

Okay' date=' everybody who's been saying this is the kind of product they and their game groups have been wanting for years... time to pony up![/quote']
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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Now I'm curious about the other genres. :) Jason' date=' will there be a corresponding Fantasy Hero Complete, Star Hero Complete, and so forth? Will we see "mini-complete" versions of the other genre books, perhaps coupled with a setting each?[/quote']

 

No plans yet Chris. We'll see how Champions Complete does and take it from there.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

OK. My turn for questions.

 

1) When can I send my $40 to be put on the pre-sold list?

 

2) Any plans on a "Champions Villian Volume Abrige" (the best of the worse from all three volumes, black and white iner-art, softcover, at a reasonable price)? It would be a perfect copanion piece (along with a "Champions Universe Abrige").

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Now I'm curious about the other genres. :) Jason' date=' will there be a corresponding Fantasy Hero Complete, Star Hero Complete, and so forth? Will we see "mini-complete" versions of the other genre books, perhaps coupled with a setting each?[/quote']

 

Maybe not the same but I think Narosia will be a complete RPG so it might stand for somekind of FH Complete I guess.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

The ultimate super roleplaying game returns to reclaim its crown in *Champions Complete!* All the legendary flexibility and power of the renowned *HERO System* rules engine, plus all the superhero goodness *Champions* has been famous for over 30 years, now in one pulse-pounding, senses -shattering, heroic handbook of superpowered action!

 

At 240 pages, *Champions Complete* includes everything superhero gamers need, and nothing they don't. New players will love the unmatched freedom of *Champions* that allows them to create and play exactly the hero they imagine. Longtime fans will appreciate the tight, concise new approach, presenting the full game system in a fraction of its former length.

 

HERO System 6th Edition

978-1-58366-145-1

HERO2000

Author: Derek Hiemforth

Cover: Sam R. Kennedy

Layout: Ruben Smith Zempel

PDF: $20.00

Print: $40.00

Print+PDF: $40.00

240pp B&W interior with color softcover.

PDF will be made available with every retail purchase via Bits and Mortar

Look for Champions Complete in Fall of 2012!

 

Put me an the "Hell yea!" camp. This is an insta-buy for me. As a writer, Derek is unknown to me as is Ruben. As for Sam, I'd like a more vivid piece than was done for Beyond. I like the cover of Beyond except for Star*Guard himself which I think looks funny-weird. The whole concept is great IMHO and my only reservation is about interior B&W. All the current super games are in color so reclaiming the crown would most likely require a similar treatment. Even more so if Champions Complete is the new core book.

 

A couple of questions/requests :

 

1) Will the character sheets be reworked. There is a lot of duplication on the first page (mostly all the characteristics except the 6 basic ones are listed twice) and as such I think it would help make the sheet look simpler by keeping the former derived in the appropriate (combat, defense,etc...) sections.

2) Will Champions Complete use 100% vanilla HERO or will it make some assumptions based on toolkitting or Advanced Player's Guides rules (DEX cost 1pt, HAP, Disadvantages don't give back points but give back HAP when uses in game, whatever you judge would be beneficial to simulate comic books)?

3) Will it completely omit stuff not usually used in Champions games (Hit Location chart, Disabling/Impairing rules,etc...)?

4) Will it change/revise/update rules that you might find needs it since 6E was released?

5) Will you try to eliminate jargon that newcomer might find too opaque? As a long time HERO gamer I kind of fail to see which expressions would be the offenders but I guess OCV/DCV/OMCV/DMCV might be ones?

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I also have to say that, whether or not it's justified to feel this way, the fact that Hero Games doesn't appear to be financing this book via the Kickstarter model makes me hopeful that the company has more life in it than some of us thought. :D

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I have to say I am definetly in for this book. One of my first experiences with RPG's was the Champions BBB. Wouldn't it be cool if the cover for this one was based off of that 4th ed Champions book..

Also, I think this is a great way to get the basic rules back in print (6EV1) without having to reprint those books.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

If this is replacing 6E1, 6E2, and 6EBasic as the core book, does that mean all further suppliments will reference it instead of 6E1-2?

Will any future Champions suppliments (either CU, or generic Superhero stuff) reference this instead of the current Champions book?

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Put me an the "Hell yea!" camp. This is an insta-buy for me. As a writer, Derek is unknown to me as is Ruben. As for Sam, I'd like a more vivid piece than was done for Beyond. I like the cover of Beyond except for Star*Guard himself which I think looks funny-weird. The whole concept is great IMHO and my only reservation is about interior B&W. All the current super games are in color so reclaiming the crown would most likely require a similar treatment. Even more so if Champions Complete is the new core book.

 

A couple of questions/requests :

 

1) Will the character sheets be reworked. There is a lot of duplication on the first page (mostly all the characteristics except the 6 basic ones are listed twice) and as such I think it would help make the sheet look simpler by keeping the former derived in the appropriate (combat, defense,etc...) sections.

2) Will Champions Complete use 100% vanilla HERO or will it make some assumptions based on toolkitting or Advanced Player's Guides rules (DEX cost 1pt, HAP, Disadvantages don't give back points but give back HAP when uses in game, whatever you judge would be beneficial to simulate comic books)?

3) Will it completely omit stuff not usually used in Champions games (Hit Location chart, Disabling/Impairing rules,etc...)?

4) Will it change/revise/update rules that you might find needs it since 6E was released?

5) Will you try to eliminate jargon that newcomer might find too opaque? As a long time HERO gamer I kind of fail to see which expressions would be the offenders but I guess OCV/DCV/OMCV/DMCV might be ones?

The OP you quoted seemed to cover question 2 and 3:

The ultimate super roleplaying game returns to reclaim its crown in *Champions Complete!* All the legendary flexibility and power of the renowned *HERO System* rules engine, plus all the superhero goodness *Champions* has been famous for over 30 years, now in one pulse-pounding, senses -shattering, heroic handbook of superpowered action!

 

At 240 pages, *Champions Complete* includes everything superhero gamers need, and nothing they don't. New players will love the unmatched freedom of *Champions* that allows them to create and play exactly the hero they imagine. Longtime fans will appreciate the tight, concise new approach, presenting the full game system in a fraction of its former length.

But if there is still confusion this is what Derek said over in the Dark Champions thread...

EDIT: emphasis above added by me, bold below from original quote :)

 

And a point to note about this book for Dark Champions fans... While Champions Complete doesn't necessarily focus on the Dark Champions genre' date=' it definitely does touch on it, and does include the "realistic" HERO System rules needed for a Dark Champions game, such as Hit Locations, Bleeding/Impairing/Disabling, Encumbrance, and so on. In other words, the HERO System rules engine included in the book is the complete system condensed into less space and fewer words; it still includes the Heroic campaigning rules. It's not a Superheroic-[b']only[/b] product. :)
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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Probably means new stuff will have both(not really that much extra to add)

Hopefully this means HD3 will get those references also

 

 

If this is replacing 6E1' date=' 6E2, and 6EBasic as [i']the[/i] core book, does that mean all further suppliments will reference it instead of 6E1-2?

Will any future Champions suppliments (either CU, or generic Superhero stuff) reference this instead of the current Champions book?

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

Probably means new stuff will have both(not really that much extra to add)

Hopefully this means HD3 will get those references also

 

I doubt that it's replacing anything. From what I've read it appears to be a condensed version of the existing rules written under the new licensing rules posted a few months ago. It's not changing any rules, it's just filtering down the word count to cut costs. I just hope it helps bring in new fans. I'm sure I'll order at least 1 copy.

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Re: [New Product] Champions Complete

 

I doubt that it's replacing anything. From what I've read it appears to be a condensed version of the existing rules written under the new licensing rules posted a few months ago. It's not changing any rules' date=' it's just filtering down the word count to cut costs. I just hope it helps bring in new fans. I'm sure I'll order at least 1 copy.[/quote']

Jason specifically said it is...

And now ladies and gentlemen' date=' to the best of my ability[b'] Q and A![/b]

Q:Will this be purely crunchy bits or will there be chewy bits thrown in?

 

A: Champions Complete is mostly crunch with some chew; 80/20 sounds about right. However, Derek's writing style is not overly technical; it's as easy to read as he could possibly make it.

 

 

Q: Is a new in-house setting was in the works or not?

 

A. No. We are pleased with our partnership with Cryptic Studios, and look forward to continuing to developing the Champions Universe with them.

 

Q: Are third-party writers encouraged to refer their readers to this product?

 

A: Yes! Champions Complete will be the core Hero System product for the foreseeable future, and we strongly encourage all of our 3rd publishers to promote it.

 

Q: Will 6E1 and 6E2 remain in print? What about the current Champions genre book? For that matter, will Basic stay in print?

 

A. Champions Complete is designed to replace 6E1, 6E2, Champions, and Basic in our product line. Though we will continue selling these products in digital form, through our website, and at conventions, we have no plans to reprint them at this time or to continue selling them through distribution.

 

Q. How does this compare to 6th ed Champions?

 

A. Champions Complete contains the core elements of 6th ed Champions, but doesn't focus *as much* on discussing the genre elements and techniques of successful superhero roleplaying games. Instead, it is a complete, stand-alone book for playing Champions using the 6th ed Hero System, priced at a level we hope won't provide a significant barrier to new players who want to try out Champions.

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