Fantasy Race Bloat?

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Given that many of these "races" are apparently interfertile, I'm not sure that race even covers it.

 

That said, the proliferation of "race of the week" was one of the things that drove me away from D&D. My own feeling is that if being a different race doesn't mean that much (and our second-line D&D game has two humans, an orc, an elf, a half-elf, all of whom interact more or less equally) then really having different races is pretty pointless. Make them all humans or make them all orcs, keep the personalities the same, and it wouldn't change the party dynamic at all. From what I have seen so far, it wouldn't change our interaction with NPCs significantly either.

 

My own games have been human-only PCs for many years now, and nobody seems to miss non-human races.

 

cheers, Mark

 

Funny, D&D has had a gajillion races since the beginning. 4 -5 varieties of Elf, 2-3 varieties of Dwarf, 3 kinds of Gnomes, 3 kinds of Halflings, Only one kind of Half Elf and Half Orc. All of those are in 1st Edition AD&D. Also there were a few Varieties of Non humans that were unique to Gygax's Greyhawk that existed on top of the types above.

 

Since AD&D, we had Dragonborn added (kind of an offshoot of Dragonmen from Dragonlance), Halflings had a variety of them changed so they were gypsy like and a bit like Dragonlance's Kender, Warforged were added into the Eberon world, Also Asimar(sp?) aka people with a spot of angellic blood, and Tieflings aka people with a spot of Demonic or devil blood. So historically there have always been a ton of different varieties of the different species in published fantasy worlds.

 

I think that a monocultural all Human fantasy world is really boring.

 

I play Non-humans for how people perceive them. I usually play Halflings and most of the campaigns I played in emphasized their reputations as being light fingered thieves. It did change the way that the character interacted with certain people. I played Half orcs and Half Ogres as well. In both cases the campaigns showed the proper amound of Bias against the character due to their ancestry. Some races DO come with abilities that Humans don't usually have, but they usually have some flaw that humans don't. Also in a fantasy game a human using magic can have the same advantages as a non human. Having a non human in a party consisting mostly of humans did make a difference.

 

It's like anything in a game. If the GM CHOOSES to not emphasize something it will be ignored. That's just GM lazyness and not the fault of the published races. The published races DO have quite different things about their culture. It's up to the GM and the Players (sometimes with GM goading) to have that difference be there. One thing about non-human races is that unlike cultural differences, Species differences are very difficult to mask. ie Dwarves, Elves and Halflings have a hard time "Passing" as a Human. Humans have conceptions of what those races Should be like. The conception should cloud how they deal with the race. (ie Dwarves are assumed to be penny penching hard bargaining rich tightwads. Merchants might just raise prices when they see a Dwarf to make up for how much they expect to be talked down in price.)

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I have played in High Fantasy games where their are every known race and culture all pretty much 'slammed together'. My experience is that many new players want to play elves, dwarves, and a few other species because they are 'cool', have interesting abilities or cultural/species quirks. I have also seen this with new GMs as well. I know my first campaign had more than a few species that just didn't make sense. There were also cultures (human and otherwise) that were too close together and didn't make sense.

 

I like playing humans and I have never wanted to play another race. In fact I have only played one other species - gnome fighter/illusionist. He didn't like 'big people' (bordered on bigotry). His favorite thing to do was go find a roof near a bar and when people came out drunk he would create an illusion of a pink dragon flying by spewing puce colored vomit. He thought that was a riot.

 

 

One of the things I like about the Valdorian Age is that humans are the predominate hominid species. There rumors of 'dwarves' and a few gnomes and halflings around but they are rare. As for elves they are the Drindrish and everyone is glad to be rid of them because they left the entire area many years ago.

 

Everyone in the party is human, except for one dwarf. He gets a fair amount of hassle when he goes into new areas because people don't have a clue what he is. And he doesn't even know where he came from because he has amnesia . When people asked "Can I play an elf?" I would tell them that elves are called Drindrish in this world and no one has seen one in a long time. And if one was found they would be killed pretty much on the spot. The Drindrish enslaved humanity for a long time in the Valdorian Age.

 

How do you define "Too Close together"? Heck, if you look at history cities seperated by less than a hundred miles have had radically different cultures. Look at Europe and how close everything is together and how many different cultures and languages sprung up there. There were a ton of very different Native American Tribes when the settlers first arrived. Most of those had very different languages and cultures.

 

Fantasy races are a great way to explore different cultures in a fairly safe way without seeming to be racist. SciFi Races are similar in this fashion.

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Funny' date=' D&D has had a gajillion races since the beginning. 4 -5 varieties of Elf, 2-3 varieties of Dwarf, 3 kinds of Gnomes, 3 kinds of Halflings, Only one kind of Half Elf and Half Orc. All of those are in 1st Edition AD&D. Also there were a few Varieties of Non humans that were unique to Gygax's Greyhawk that existed on top of the types above.[/quote']

 

I still have my old D&D/AD&D books and I'm looking at them right now. You're remembering stuff that came afterwards. AD&D started with 1 playable race of elves, dwarves and gnomes, 2 types of halfling (which were almost identical), and as you note, one type of half elf and half orc. As more books came out, more and more races were added.

 

Since AD&D' date=' we had Dragonborn added (kind of an offshoot of Dragonmen from Dragonlance), Halflings had a variety of them changed so they were gypsy like and a bit like Dragonlance's Kender, Warforged were added into the Eberon world, Also Asimar(sp?) aka people with a spot of angellic blood, and Tieflings aka people with a spot of Demonic or devil blood.[u'][/u] So historically there have always been a ton of different varieties of the different species in published fantasy worlds.

 

Heh. You forgot Asherati, Bugbear, Buomman, Bullywug, , Catfolk, Changeling, Daelkyr, Darfellan, Dark One, Duskling, Dwarves, (10 different kinds!), Elan, Elves, (10 different (11 if you count Eladrin) kinds plus 4 kinds of half elf), Faun, Genasi, (4 different kinds), Gibberling, Githyanki, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnomes, (7 different races), Goblin, (2 different kinds), Goliath, Grippli, Hadozee, Halflings, (9 different races, 10 if you count, kender!), Hengeyokai, Hobgoblin, Humans, (now in seven different kinds!), Jermlaine, Kalashtar, Kenku, Killoren, Kobold, Krynn Minotaur, Lizardfolk, Locathah, Maenad, Merfolk, Mongrelfolk, Mul, Neraphim, Nezumi, Nilbog, Norker, Orc, (3 different races), Orog, Rakasta, Raptoran, Rilkan, Saurial, Selkie, Shifter, Skarn, Skulk, Spellscale, Spiker, Spirit Folk, Swanmay, Tasloi, Troglodyte, Vanara, and, Xeph. And that's only a sample of the player races listed. There's also a bunch of underdark and aquatic races not on that list, none of the intelligent monster races, few of the halfbreeds and none of the templates. So you can probably multiply that list by a factor of 5 or so ...

 

That's a lot of sentient races.

 

I think that a monocultural all Human fantasy world is really boring.

 

Each to their own. I'm not saying people shouldn't play in a Mos Eislely cantina style world - just that it's not my thing. I do remain bemused by the idea that a monocultural game world is boring, though. Whether a game is boring or not depends on the plot and the characters, in my experience. Pointy ears neither make a game less boring or more boring.

 

It's like anything in a game. If the GM CHOOSES to not emphasize something it will be ignored. That's just GM lazyness and not the fault of the published races. The published races DO have quite different things about their culture. It's up to the GM and the Players (sometimes with GM goading) to have that difference be there. One thing about non-human races is that unlike cultural differences' date=' Species differences are very difficult to mask. ie Dwarves, Elves and Halflings have a hard time "Passing" as a Human. Humans have conceptions of what those races Should be like. The conception should cloud how they deal with the race. (ie Dwarves are assumed to be penny penching hard bargaining rich tightwads. Merchants might just raise prices when they see a Dwarf to make up for how much they expect to be talked down in price.)[/quote']

 

This is fair point, but it also points up to me the weakness of the "many races" approach which is that even GMs who do put extra effort in, almost always treat them like cultures: which is exactly what you are doing here. If the only significant differences between races are cultural, why not just use cultures? Actually playing a different race - and GM'ing different races - so that they seem non-human is a very difficult task: one made more difficult if there is a vast profusion of them. I've rarely seen it done well. Indeed in most games, I've never seen it done at all. The vast majority of players (and GM's) treat different races exactly like humans with a few widgets bolted on.

 

cheers, Mark

[Enforcer84]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

played Conan and Iron Kingdoms both had several human types, each with different bonuses and one elf, dwarf, etc...More the latter than the former.

so yeah choice tends to be optimal in many games. Everyone plays to their tastes.

[dmjalund]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Warning: Hobbits are more filling that you'd expect!

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Silly question. Everyone knows that you publish the first few races and classes in the original rules, and more, better races and classes (plus magic items for them and monsters to fight them) in each subsequent supplement. That lets the munchkins escalate the arms race, DMs pull off more TPKs, gloriously one-sided PvP, and more supplement sales. Moar races, moar better!

[lemming]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/604

 

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I still have my old D&D/AD&D books and I'm looking at them right now. You're remembering stuff that came afterwards. AD&D started with 1 playable race of elves, dwarves and gnomes, 2 types of halfling (which were almost identical), and as you note, one type of half elf and half orc. As more books came out, more and more races were added.

 

 

 

Heh. You forgot Asherati, Bugbear, Buomman, Bullywug, , Catfolk, Changeling, Daelkyr, Darfellan, Dark One, Duskling, Dwarves, (10 different kinds!), Elan, Elves, (10 different (11 if you count Eladrin) kinds plus 4 kinds of half elf), Faun, Genasi, (4 different kinds), Gibberling, Githyanki, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnomes, (7 different races), Goblin, (2 different kinds), Goliath, Grippli, Hadozee, Halflings, (9 different races, 10 if you count, kender!), Hengeyokai, Hobgoblin, Humans, (now in seven different kinds!), Jermlaine, Kalashtar, Kenku, Killoren, Kobold, Krynn Minotaur, Lizardfolk, Locathah, Maenad, Merfolk, Mongrelfolk, Mul, Neraphim, Nezumi, Nilbog, Norker, Orc, (3 different races), Orog, Rakasta, Raptoran, Rilkan, Saurial, Selkie, Shifter, Skarn, Skulk, Spellscale, Spiker, Spirit Folk, Swanmay, Tasloi, Troglodyte, Vanara, and, Xeph. And that's only a sample of the player races listed. There's also a bunch of underdark and aquatic races not on that list, none of the intelligent monster races, few of the halfbreeds and none of the templates. So you can probably multiply that list by a factor of 5 or so ...

 

That's a lot of sentient races.

 

 

 

Each to their own. I'm not saying people shouldn't play in a Mos Eislely cantina style world - just that it's not my thing. I do remain bemused by the idea that a monocultural game world is boring, though. Whether a game is boring or not depends on the plot and the characters, in my experience. Pointy ears neither make a game less boring or more boring.

 

 

 

This is fair point, but it also points up to me the weakness of the "many races" approach which is that even GMs who do put extra effort in, almost always treat them like cultures: which is exactly what you are doing here. If the only significant differences between races are cultural, why not just use cultures? Actually playing a different race - and GM'ing different races - so that they seem non-human is a very difficult task: one made more difficult if there is a vast profusion of them. I've rarely seen it done well. Indeed in most games, I've never seen it done at all. The vast majority of players (and GM's) treat different races exactly like humans with a few widgets bolted on.

 

cheers, Mark

 

IIRC the subraces were added in Issues of the Dragon and with Campaign Worlds. I remember there always being High Elves and Grey elves. MM II added Drow from the Drow series. Heck the first monster as PCs came from the MM writeups in first edition. An early 1st edition AD&D character of mine was a Drow Assassin. Was friends with a Human Anti-Paladin. Many of those other races you listed are "Optional". Heck even with all of the Races in 3.x Forgotten Realms I have only seen a fraction of them in actual play. In a typical city you still mostly see Human, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Occasionally Half Elves and rarely Half Orcs. Yes, you potentially have quite a long list of Potential PC's in a Forgotten Realm game. Some them will never be played due to the fact that a first level fully powered Drow is the Equivalent of a 3rd level base line character. Some of those races are actually more powerful than that, and can only be chosen if the PC's are that level or higher. So Most players won't choose them.

 

As long as everyone is having fun, who cares how the Race is played? Heck, most players can't roleplay people of their own gender and race well, let alone someone of another race and/or Gender. Noone is espousing a game world full of White Anglo Saxon Protestants, because of that.

 

In a Game world full of Eurocentric Humans (ie White people). It doesn't matter of one guy is a Viking and the other a Slavic. They are both white people and as long as they don't have an accent. They pass as the majority. I like Non-human races because they can't be anything but their race. Sure a Half Orc, Half Elf or even a full Elf can pass as human sometimes, but eventually someone is going to figure out they aren't human. That's where the being treated differently comes in. Even a half way decent GM can treat the non humans differently, or even turn it on it's head and have the city full of non humans where the Humans are treated as second class citizens. I guess I don't think it's a bad thing that most non-humans are really humans in different bodies. Only a few talent people can even start to concieve what it would be like to not be human and live as long as an elf or as brutally and short as an Orc or half Orc.

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Silly question. Everyone knows that you publish the first few races and classes in the original rules' date=' and more, better races and classes (plus magic items for them and monsters to fight them) in each subsequent supplement. That lets the munchkins escalate the arms race, DMs pull off more TPKs, gloriously one-sided PvP, and more supplement sales. Moar races, moar better![/quote']

 

That's a real biased argument. You assume that the only reason people play a different race because they are more powerful in some way. The new races don't have to be more powerful, just different enough to catch the imagination of players. Many RPers love the challenge of being something different than human. It allows them to be something totally different and an excuse to have a much different personality than they might feel comfortable with if playing a human.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

Besides, who would be interested in a story about vikings and a moor?

[Steve]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I find myself leaning towards agreeing with the earlier argument of culture as a better definer of a character's background than race. I'd make the argument that a party composed of a Hyborian Age Stygian wizard, a Shemite rogue and a warrior from Khitai would be just as interesting to roleplay (possibly moreso) than one composed of an elf, a man and a dwarf.

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I find myself leaning towards agreeing with the earlier argument of culture as a better definer of a character's background than race. I'd make the argument that a party composed of a Hyborian Age Stygian wizard' date=' a Shemite rogue and a warrior from Khitai would be just as interesting to roleplay (possibly moreso) than one composed of an elf, a man and a dwarf.[/quote']

 

If you gave me the choice at a con, I would choose the Elf, Human and Dwarf over the Howard'esque cultures that I have no real connection to or idea of how to play.

 

I know that the Elf could be played as being Aloof, patient beyond belief, who would love finer things like wine, Also would probably know lots of historical facts due to age and possibly being there, Probably woodsey if a Ranger type, but could also make a good haughty Mage. The man would be a regular guy defined by his adventuring profession. The Dwarf would be rough and tumble. Loving his Ale, Fights, and a good Axe in his hand. Probably a Warrior. More comfortable in an enclosed space than in the great outdoors. I could make a decent character out of any of them just out of what I know of their species.

 

Those others are complete Cyphers to me. I read a ton of Conan a long time ago and I really don't remember who is what and how each of the races would be played. I would need an extensive players guide to even start to understand where they come from.

 

It's actually why I recommend allowing a bunch of different Humanoid Species to play as well as a huge variety of player cultures to explore. Pathfinder's Golarion does a pretty good job. The Human cultures are obviously taken from the real world, but that makes them more approachable to a player no matter how new or old to gaming they happen to be.

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

BTW "Officially" the subraces of Elves, Dwarves, and Gnomes were made official in the 1st Edition book Unearthed Arcana. They had appeared in various Greyhawk Articles in the Dragon, and also in Greyhawk Campaign Supplements. IIRC they first made their Appearance in MM where they were mentioned in the monster entries for Each of the Base Races.

 

On top of that many of the "unofficial" Game worlds of the time were chock full of non humans. Arduin for one gave us insectiod People (AKA Phraints), which TSR stole and renamed ThriKreen, Lizard People (Saurigs), and many others.

[Steve]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

That's a real biased argument. You assume that the only reason people play a different race because they are more powerful in some way. The new races don't have to be more powerful' date=' just different enough to catch the imagination of players. Many RPers love the challenge of being something different than human. It allows them to be something totally different and an excuse to have a much different personality than they might feel comfortable with if playing a human.[/quote']

 

It is the only reason for some who play this hobby, so why dismiss the idea? Some people want to play a race because it gives KEWL abilities and could care less about RPing a member of the race. Aasimar and Tieflings developed fandoms because they had powers and abilities beyond those of your average elf. Some people approach the hobby from that basis.

[Steve]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

If you gave me the choice at a con, I would choose the Elf, Human and Dwarf over the Howard'esque cultures that I have no real connection to or idea of how to play.

 

I know that the Elf could be played as being Aloof, patient beyond belief, who would love finer things like wine, Also would probably know lots of historical facts due to age and possibly being there, Probably woodsey if a Ranger type, but could also make a good haughty Mage. The man would be a regular guy defined by his adventuring profession. The Dwarf would be rough and tumble. Loving his Ale, Fights, and a good Axe in his hand. Probably a Warrior. More comfortable in an enclosed space than in the great outdoors. I could make a decent character out of any of them just out of what I know of their species.

 

Those others are complete Cyphers to me. I read a ton of Conan a long time ago and I really don't remember who is what and how each of the races would be played. I would need an extensive players guide to even start to understand where they come from.

 

It's actually why I recommend allowing a bunch of different Humanoid Species to play as well as a huge variety of player cultures to explore. Pathfinder's Golarion does a pretty good job. The Human cultures are obviously taken from the real world, but that makes them more approachable to a player no matter how new or old to gaming they happen to be.

 

I used the Hyborian Age because it's pretty familiar to a lot of people. I suppose I should have used examples of a French musketeer, a Japanese ninja and a viking. Popular culture would give most people some basis on how to play one, probably better than someone being able to play an elf that has not immersed themselves in gaming lore for years on what an elf or dwarf is like.

 

Personally, I find games dealing with human cultures that are foreign to be easier to grasp than an elf or a dwarf. Games set in worlds like "7th Sea" or "Legend of the Five Rings" are human-oriented worlds, and they do quite well.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

In your experience' date=' what's the appropriate number/number-range of fantasy races in the campaigns you've ran or played in? What should GMs be on the lookout for in regards to supplements that introduce new races? Do societies become too unbelievable when there are twenty-six varieties of elves and fourteen kinds of dwarves?[/quote']

 

It all depends on what sort of game you want to play. Swords-and-sorcery games do fine with only humans. Middle Earth had half a dozen races. My perpetually-in-development Spelljammer/One Piece setting could riff on the Mos Eisley cantina scene without straining verisimilitude.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I find myself leaning towards agreeing with the earlier argument of culture as a better definer of a character's background than race. I'd make the argument that a party composed of a Hyborian Age Stygian wizard' date=' a Shemite rogue and a warrior from Khitai would be just as interesting to roleplay (possibly moreso) than one composed of an elf, a man and a dwarf.[/quote']

 

But why not an elven Hyborian Age Wizard, a human Shemite rogue, and an elven warrior from Khitai?

 

(And as you've probably just guessed, I have absolutely no idea what Hyborian Age, Shemite, or Khitai mean.)

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

It all depends on what sort of game you want to play. Swords-and-sorcery games do fine with only humans. Middle Earth had half a dozen races. My perpetually-in-development Spelljammer/One Piece setting could riff on the Mos Eisley cantina scene without straining verisimilitude.

 

Depends on how strong one's v-tude (i'm not typing that) is. I have little to no effort just taking things as they come, regardless of the situation. It is what it is.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

But why not an elven Hyborian Age Wizard, a human Shemite rogue, and an elven warrior from Khitai?

 

(And as you've probably just guessed, I have absolutely no idea what Hyborian Age, Shemite, or Khitai mean.)

 

Hyborian is the name of the age and continent-Hyboria, Shemite are the Israelites and Khitai are Chinese.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

My take in on race bloat is this; if you consider every race published as being true, and or in extistence, then I see the bloat. However, I like to think of supplements as a smogasboard for your game. You can look at new races and say, hey that's a neat approach maybe I'll add this in (I really like the concept of Dragonborn from DnD 4th) Or as in the case of Hero system, they might be an example of a previously presented idea. Think of the Innare from Fantasy Companion two.

 

* I just have to present this here-I have a supplement with isn't DnD oficial and htey have a race called the Squarn who for some unknown reason love build and leave traps underground.

[Tasha]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

My take in on race bloat is this; if you consider every race published as being true, and or in extistence, then I see the bloat. However, I like to think of supplements as a smogasboard for your game. You can look at new races and say, hey that's a neat approach maybe I'll add this in (I really like the concept of Dragonborn from DnD 4th) Or as in the case of Hero system, they might be an example of a previously presented idea. Think of the Innare from Fantasy Companion two.

 

* I just have to present this here-I have a supplement with isn't DnD oficial and htey have a race called the Squarn who for some unknown reason love build and leave traps underground.

 

but is it really bloat. If the party fights Orcs, Tieflings, Asimaars, Kobolds, etc. Why not allow a player to explore one as a PC?

 

I think some of this discussion is between those who like Low Fantasy games like Conan's Sword and Sorcery and those who like D&D style High Fantasy.

 

So assuming you are running a High Fantasy game how many Sentient Humanoid Species is too much? Or is one world big enough to contain all of that intelligent life?

[The Main Man]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I think that what players really care about is getting mechanical goodies with their flavor. A world of faux-Arabs, faux-Spartans, faux-Vikings, and faux-Chinese who each have their own distinct mechanical goodies will evoke virtually indistinguishable player reactions than a world of monocultural Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, and Halflings to the average player - I'll betcha.

 

I don't have a problem with nonhuman races though. I have a problem with redundant races. You can't fool me by adding brown food dye to my vanilla ice cream and calling it chocolate. I have a problem with races that seem like they are little more than a different bundle of mechanics and add nothing to the world. I have a problem with new races for the sake of new book material. I have a problem with races that conflict with the original premise of the setting; ones who raise questions about the sheer cohesion of the setting.

 

If a race is introduced that fits the setting, creates interesting new possibilities, doesn't conflict with the fundamental premise, is mechanically distinct, and stands out from previously existing races then I'm okay with it.

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

If a race is introduced that fits the setting' date=' creates interesting new possibilities, doesn't conflict with the fundamental premise, is mechanically distinct, and stands out from previously existing races then I'm okay with it.[/quote']

 

This.

 

For me, D&D is the poster-child for bad behaviour here, because new, intelligent races were introduced often for the reason "We're writing a module , and I thought it'd be cool if we included two new races!". There wasn't the slightest thought given to why they were there, where they came from, culture or anything else. They were merely intended to be talking targets. But of course to make them a challenge, they had to have cool powers ... which meant players wanted to use them as PCs. Drow are the perfect example: in 1st Ed AD&D they got 2 sentences of text which essentially said "There might be evil dark elves". Later revisions and the Demonweb pit series of modules added kewl powerz and the ability to use them as a PC race and suddenly you couldn't go into a bar anywhere without meeting lonely drow outcasts, who alone of their race had seen the errors of their ways .... And there were plenty of other races who went this route. Any D&D character optimization always starts with a discussion of which races give you the most bang for your buck. So I'd agree with you: it's mostly about the mad skillz.

 

At the same time, there are a few games which have made an effort to integrate their races into the game setting and give them some flavour: I guess Runequest and EPT spring to mind here.

 

cheers, Mark

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

but is it really bloat. If the party fights Orcs, Tieflings, Asimaars, Kobolds, etc. Why not allow a player to explore one as a PC?

 

I think some of this discussion is between those who like Low Fantasy games like Conan's Sword and Sorcery and those who like D&D style High Fantasy.

 

So assuming you are running a High Fantasy game how many Sentient Humanoid Species is too much? Or is one world big enough to contain all of that intelligent life?

 

Tasha I do allow non-human sentinet pcs. In fact, I'm building a tiefling for a friend of mine.

How many is too many? I don't know? To be quite honest, I don't get to play often enough for it to matter to me.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Fantasy Race Bloat?

 

I like non-human races myself. To the point that a setting, whether for a book or a game, which has only humans has to work harder to keep me interested.

 

What I don't like is when these races are basically humans with pointy ears or red eyes or whatever. Playing a different race, (or species, to use the correct term), should give the player a whole new perspective on the game world. Different cultural attitudes, different reactions from NPCs and less importantly a different appearance and unique abilities. You can't make your player species too alien or no one will know how to play them but they should be obviously non-human in body and mind. Or at least noticeably different from the humans in that setting.

 

If each species is unique then I think you can have quite a few of them. Several Sc-fi franchises have managed to do this quite successfully.

 

But I agree that there is a point where it all gets too much. Even a Fantasy setting has to allow people to suspend their disbelief. If you have blind, Buddhist, warrior-monkeys made from living bronze at one end of a valley and pacifist tentacle monsters with advanced technology at the other then drop the ancient civilisation of the Mirror Dwarves who talk backwards and refer to everything as its opposite in the next valley along you will probably notice your players' eyes glazing over before long.

 

Maybe 5-6 is a good number to aim for. At least for player races.