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Paralysed poison


steph

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Someone can give me a exemple of paralysed poison.

 

I need tonight for a archer who can use poison. I am not sure with what i can design it. Entangle with entangle take no damage from attack. AVAD all or nothing ?

 

Some help please how you figure it

 

Steph

 

sorry for the bad english

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

I, personally, would do a paralytic poison as a DEX Drain, Continuous, Uncontrolled, with a limit that you can make a CON check when it would drain you to prevent that one individual instance of Drain from taking effect. Once the DEX hits zero/negatives, that's paralysis. Entangle doesn't work for this for me, as there's nothing for the character to exert against; it makes no sense to me that one can use his Strength, or innate blast-type powers, to escape from a paralytic poison.

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

There's no end to the ways you can do this. My personal favourite would be an Entangle that doesn't take damage from attacks.

 

As I stated above, that makes no sense based on special effects. An Entangle is a 'thing'; you can exert your Strength to escape it, or use non-accessible-focused blasts/killing attacks/etc. How can you do that against a paralytic poison?

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

As I stated above' date=' that makes no sense based on special effects. An Entangle is a 'thing'; you can exert your Strength to escape it, or use non-accessible-focused blasts/killing attacks/etc. How can you do that against a paralytic poison?[/quote']

Mental paralysis is done with Entangle based on Ego instead of str. Why not a paralytic drug as an Entangle based on CON?

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

I went with SPD Drain because :

 

1 Damage Over Time is the 6th default mechanic for poisons and actually does model them realistically.

 

2 Drain of STR or DEX would work just as well in 5th but with the removal of Negative Characterisics, the target will have a 9 or less chance to move every phase. 0 SPD takes that chance away.

 

3 Entangle is too all or nothing. If you make it too strong it lasts forever, too weak and the breakout can happen immediately.

 

4 A broken entangle is gone and has no lasting effect, going from totally immobile to 100 percent healthy. Drain fades gradually and can be mitigated by Aid or fixed by Healing. Seems more poison-like to me but YMMV.

 

Be very careful with Damage Over Time. I find it works great at modeling poisons, crushing environmental damage and slow transformations but it lends to some abusive builds at the faster damage increments. Doubly so when the defense only applies once option is added.

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

I went with SPD Drain because :

 

1 Damage Over Time is the 6th default mechanic for poisons and actually does model them realistically.

 

2 Drain of STR or DEX would work just as well in 5th but with the removal of Negative Characterisics, the target will have a 9 or less chance to move every phase. 0 SPD takes that chance away.

 

3 Entangle is too all or nothing. If you make it too strong it lasts forever, too weak and the breakout can happen immediately.

 

4 A broken entangle is gone and has no lasting effect, going from totally immobile to 100 percent healthy. Drain fades gradually and can be mitigated by Aid or fixed by Healing. Seems more poison-like to me but YMMV.

 

Be very careful with Damage Over Time. I find it works great at modeling poisons, crushing environmental damage and slow transformations but it lends to some abusive builds at the faster damage increments. Doubly so when the defense only applies once option is added.

 

I'll buy that.

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

Mental paralysis is done with Entangle based on Ego instead of str. Why not a paralytic drug as an Entangle based on CON?

 

As Grailknight mentions above, it's too 'all-or-nothing'. Poisons have an onset time, and wear off ... and as he notes, you might break out instantly (Casual CON?), or never be able to break out.

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

I love Entangles with the advantage that they take no damage from attacks. They are great for mental paralysis, or electrical attacks causing the muscles to seize up, or specialized nerve strikes. But as noted above, this is a poison and Entangle isn't really the best way to model it.

 

My only issue with the Drain approach is the cost. Mechanically the SPD Drain is exactly what you need. But realistically you should also probably drain DEX, OCV, and DCV also. That is an extra +1½ Advantage on your Drain on top of the +1 or more Advantage you probably want to decrease the return rate past 5pts/Turn and the +1 or so from Damage Over Time, which can make your poison rather pricey. For a lot of scenarios that doesn't matter, but in a game with Active point caps it can be problematic.

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

Here is a version with your suggested changes. This is perfectly legal by RAW(copied and pasted from HDv3). It will will drain an average of 112 points from each Char over the course of 3+ turns. This version will take down most supers and cripple even the Doc D's of the world.

 

 

Drain SPD, OCV, DCV & DEX 1d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per 20 Minutes; +1 1/2), Expanded Effect (x4 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+1 1/2), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (32 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +5) (90 Active Points)

 

 

Effective, well yeah but abusive enough to make even Gary or Champsguy pause. (Total of +8 in advantages) An example of things you can do but shouldn't in the Hero system.

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

I would go with

2D6 Entangle 2 DEF; Versus Constitution instead of strength +1 (40)

 

Breaking out would be the equivalent of "Sweating it out" and would take a little time. To make it take longer raise the DEF until the character can only damage it with a roll showing at least one 6

2D6 Entangle 4 DEF; Versus Constitution instead of strength +1 (60)

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Re: Paralysed poison

 

As Grailknight mentions above' date=' it's too 'all-or-nothing'. Poisons have an onset time, and wear off ... and as he notes, you might break out instantly (Casual CON?), or never be able to break out.[/quote']

Entangle is very "all or nothing" and probably isn't how I would build a traditional poison, but it is a viable option. The argument that:

As I stated above' date=' that makes no sense based on special effects. An Entangle is a 'thing'; you can exert your Strength to escape it, or use non-accessible-focused blasts/killing attacks/etc. How can you do that against a paralytic poison?[/quote']

is not valid. We already use Entangle to represent non-corporeal things, from TK users with a "fire and forget" type "grab" to mental Entangles. Whether Entangle is good for a poison is very much a campaign specific, play/combat style thing.

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  • 7 months later...

This was meant more for swords, but can be used for arrows

 

Paralysing Poison (Blade Venom): (Total: 94 Active Cost, 35 Real Cost) Deadly Blow: +3d6 ([broad circumstances] (Weapon does BOD damage before applying Deadly Blow)) (57 Active Points); 4 clips of 1 Continuing Charge lasting 1 Turn (Increased Reloading Time: 2 Full Phases; Recovers Under Limited Circumstances (Buy or brew more poison); -1 1/2), Variable Limitations (requires -1 worth of Limitations; Either Concentration and Extra Time each time poison applied, or DEX Roll and risk poisoning self; -1/2), Limited Power DO NOT ACTUALLY APPLY EXTRA DAMAGE (Counts for purposes of Stunning, Impairing, and Disabling only; -1/2), Requires A Roll (14- roll; Burnout; -1/4), IIF (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point (standard effect: 3 STUN), +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4), Attack Versus Alternate Defense (Automaton Powers Takes No Stun or Cannot Be Stunned; All Or Nothing; +1), Damage Over Time, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (8193-16384 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +5 1/4) (37 Active Points); Linked (Deadly Blow: +3d6; -1/2), IIF (-1/4) (Real Cost: 21)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks there should be a Limitation "not vs appropriate life support" but Lucius says that's another circumstance outside the "broad category"

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  • 1 year later...

Bearing in mind I have never played 6e, (I'm a die hard 5e fan)... Is there any reason the best answer wouldn't be "both"?  Like Animal Venoms in 5e, they were a Drain, and a RKA.  So why not a Dex Drain combined with an Entangle based on Con?  The Entangle is the "paralysis" effect, while the Dex Drain represents the longer-term effects, such as shakes, wooziness, etc?

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  • 10 months later...

The way I built it in my Bestiary for spiders and such was to use entangle vs CON (or vs ego defense then shift it to CON) so that a healthy person breaks free sooner, but ordinary defenses are no help at all.  Its slightly expensive, but you don't need a lot of dice to lock up most targets.  Remember to put the limitation version of AVAD so Life Support vs poison ignores it and I'd suggest an absolute time limit.  Paralytic poisons aren't typically permanent but enough dice and someone might never break free until they die of starvation.

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