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dgarsys

Character/Template Pack for MHI for HD - and weapons

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Hi there. Purchased the MHI character pack for MHI - and it's nice to have most of the basic people stats/etc. already defined - especially as it gives me a reference point for character design as I've never played the Hero system before.

 

That said - what's driving me nuts right now is how to add - for example - the AR-10 that's part of the standard MHI template in the handbook, but NOT included anywhere in the character Pack. It doesn't get added as part of the MHI template, and none of the MHI characters who don't have a special weapon as a power ("abomination" - forex) have the standard equipment listed as part of the template. The stats are useful, but I'm not sure how the heck to build up the AR-10 that's standard kit in HD either.

 

So....

1) Am I missing something?

2) If I'm not, how do I build/add the standard AR-10/etc. within HD?

3) Once I get past 1/2 above, I may need to figure out a template/package that includes all of the equipment listed in the book or character creation will come to a screeching halt at kitting out.

 

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Not trying to upsell you or anything, but the Hero System Equipment Guide and its Hero Designer Character Pack are awesome and complete particularly the weapons.

 

As to how to enter in the stats for a gun manually, you need to be sure you're using the Heroic rule set and can see the equipment tab, and then you pretty much just enter it in, probably as a combination power.

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Don't mind being upsold a bit for a reasonable price. :) I also understand if weapons are not part of the default char pack - still find the chars and templates to be worth the 5 bucks for all the time it saves me in creating my own templates

 

I guess what I'd like is some guidance is what specific powers/limits/advantages/etc. were used to generate a couple of the specific weapons in MHI or the core rules (preferably the former), their OCV's, and their range modifiers (the last two are the ones I'm having the most issues grokking how it works. I figured out how to apply the flash suppressor on the AR-10). I "get" the general concept - but

 

Once there, I've already figured out how to make a set of prefabs.... which will save me time in "building" weapons from scratch for each character as I use HD.... Ironically, THIS aspect of HD, if you don't take the trouble to generate prefabs/templates or such for the weapons, is actually harder than simply writing the info down on the character sheets.

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In most cases we don't include the weapons in weapon lists, etc. in Character Packs -- that's a bit more work than we're willing to ask our minions to do. The Minions' Union might picket us if we did. ;) The HERO System Equipment Guide is an exception, simply because that book is all equipment. It has plenty of information on how to build guns using the HERO System, etc. (Both for the sake of simplicity and because of space reasons, I left that information out of the MHI RPG. For that matter, I didn't even include the Character Point costs of guns in the tables.)

 

 

 

If you want to look at the HSEG and try to re-create guns, there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

 

 

 

1. The STR Minima on the guns in the MHI RPG differ from those in the HSEG and other HERO System products. Because the MHI setting gives me very, very specific benchmarks for characters' STRs, I couldn't use the standard STR Minima (which are set for "typical" campaigns, where the average character STR is higher than it is in the MHI RPG). So I just lowered 'em across the board.

 

 

 

2. The guns in the HSEG are a bit more "cinematic" than in the MHI RPG. Following the advice of Larry and my other advisors I tweaked the firearms information for the MHI RPG to make it more "realistic" and up to date. (If I ever do another version of the HSEG, some of that information will be incorporated into the new book, some won't.) MHI fans tend to like "realism" in their guns (as paradoxical as that sometimes is), so I wrote the MHI RPG with that in mind. But the HERO System in general is somewhat more "cinematic" and less concerned with precise rules about how guns "really" work.

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I don't normally like to do this (in fact I am actively against it), but since this issue may come up for many MHI RPG fans I figured it would be helpful to post the basic info from the HSEG about how to create guns in the HERO System. This is the raw text that appears on HSEG 68-69. It just covers the basics; it doesn't delve into historical firearms, shotguns, or other unusual cases, which are covered on other pages of the HSEG. Furthermore, this is written up for the full HERO System rules, and therefore may reference some rules and rules concepts that the MHI RPG doesn't cover.

Firearms Basics

 

In the HERO System, most firearms are built with the following Limitations:

 

—Focus: Firearms are OAFs. They’re Universal Foci (anyone can use them) unless they have personalization features (page yyy).

 

—STR Minimum: Guns have STR Minima, though since they’re built as RKAs, characters cannot use extra STR to increase the damage

 

they do — the STR Minimum indicates the STR needed to hold, properly aim, and fire the weapon.

 

—Beam: Bullets can’t be Spread, and only make relatively small “punctures” in barriers such as walls and doors.

 

—Real Weapon: See below for more information.

 

—Charges: Guns fire bullets, which you represent with Charges. Characters don’t necessarily have to wait a day to get back the

 

Charges for (i.e., reload) a firearm — they can reload if they have access to more ammunition (such as by going to their heaquarters or the

 

local gun store and picking up another box of bullets).

 

ADDITIONAL MODIFIERS

 

Long arms such as rifles and shotguns have the Two-Handed (-½) Limitation. If the campaign uses the Knockback rules, guns should

 

also have the No Knockback (-¼) Limitation.

Weapons capable of automatic fire, such as submachine guns and assault rifles, have the Autofire Advantage. Usually they take it at

 

the +½ level, meaning they can fire up to five shots with a single squeeze of the trigger.

See Shotgun Ammunition, page ???, for more information about shotguns and how they’re built in HERO System terms.

 

REAL WEAPON

 

As noted on 6E2 200-01, the Real Weapon Limitation signifies that a gun functions “realistically” — if it’s not cleaned or

 

maintained, it won’t work properly. In game terms, this usually means the weapon becomes subject to the Optional Firearms Malfunction rules

 

on 6E2 207. Some possible occurrences that may cause the GM to invoke the Malfunction rules include:

 

—the gun becomes wet (if it’s not designed to resist this; see Watertight, page yyy)

—the gun becomes dirty (e.g., the character drops it in mud or sand)

—the character uses the gun for a day without cleaning it

 

If one of these circumstances occurs, the GM imposes a temporary Activation Roll on the gun. Typically the Activation Roll starts

 

at 15-, but the GM can set it lower if he feels that’s appropriate to represent the circumstances. Whenever the character fires the gun

 

after that, the GM rolls the Activation Roll. If the roll ever fails, the gun experiences a Malfunction. For every day that passes without

 

the character taking the time to thoroughly clean his gun (which requires proper equipment and at least 20 Minutes, if not longer), the GM

 

lowers the Activation Roll by 1. The GM can also lower the roll for any other appropriate reason (such as if the character drops his gun in

 

the mud multiple times, or gets it dirty after having not cleaned it for a while).

At the GM’s option, a character can increase the value of the Real Weapon Limitation if a gun has a lower starting Activation Roll.

 

For each step up the Activation Roll Table (14-, 12-, 11-, and so on), increase the value of Real Weapon by an additional ¼ Limitation. Of

 

course, the GM should only allow this if there’s a significant chance that it actually restricts the use of the gun. For example, gun-

 

toting urban vigilantes typically have lots of opportunities to clean their guns, so the GM might not allow them to take this expanded

 

Limitation. On the other hand, soldiers who spend weeks in the field might have trouble keeping their firearms clean, and therefore get to

 

take it.

 

MODIFIERS TO OCV AND THE RANGE MODIFIER

 

Some firearms have bonuses to the user’s OCV, either overall or just to counteract the Range Modifier. This represents guns that

 

are inherently more accurate or easy to aim than average, which are designed for long-distance shooting, or the like. On the other hand,

 

some guns suffer an OCV penalty or an increased Range Modifier; these firearms are not as well made, have features that make them difficult

 

to use, and so forth.

An OCV bonus for a firearm is bought as a 2-point Combat Skill Level with the Limitations OAF, Required Hands, and Real Weapon.

 

Thus, each +1 OCV adds 2 Active Points, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm.

A Range Modifier (RMod) bonus for a firearm is bought as 1-point Penalty Skill Levels versus the Range Group with the Focus,

 

Required Hands, and Real Weapon Limitations. Thus, each +1 RMod adds 1 Active Point, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm. An RMod bonus

 

never raises a character’s base OCV, it can only offset Range Modifier penalties.

An OCV and/or RMod penalty for a firearm is bought as a minor Side Effect (automatically occurs; -½) for the weapon. (This same

 

value applies until the total penalties on a weapon reach the 30 Active Point level — something that’s highly unlikely to ever occur.) If a

 

gun has both OCV and RMod penalties, it only gets a single Side Effect Limitation.

In most cases, OCV and RMod modifiers for a modern gun shouldn’t exceed +/-2 in either category (and in fact most guns don’t have

 

more than +/-1, though as noted earlier in this chapter historical firearms often have much higher penalties). The GM has the final say on

 

what combat modifiers are appropriate for a gun.

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Thank you. I managed, in combination with the core rules, to figure out most of the rest, but that puts it all in one place along with the "expectations" for design, and especially gets me up and running on the parts I didn't know how to cost out or add in HD, like the OCV and range mods.

 

Short story - is that if we build the guns to match the strength/etc. stats in MHI, and use OAF / handedness and "real weapons" as the baseline assumptions, plus damage/round/etc., then we should get a reasonably accurate point cost for special or "always available" weapons. We can also then set a "price" if we want "real world" costs for mere equipment (but what hunter would do that when they could obsess over their precious little babies?? ;)) as well as how-to mod the prices for add-ons, etc.

 

Steve, with your permission, could I write up a more specific "guide" on how to build an MHI-specific weapon and pass it through you for fact-checking and approval before posting here?

 

 

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OK... I'll do a step-by-step build in HD of the AR10 or pistol that are listed as part of the MHI hunter template. Just doing one - maybe two - weapons should make it fairly easy to cross-check for proper limitations/etc and points on your part while making sure I didn't mis-explain the process as well, while also giving a good baseline for those using HD/etc. on how to add/cost the weapons they are by default handed as Monster hunters.

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Here's the rough draft:

 

The MHI handbook includes guns. Lots of guns. Lots and lots of guns. Lots... nevermind, you get the point.

 

Most of this is "equipment" - and you get issued an AR-10 and a pistol as part of you induction into MHI (standard per the template). Like most equipment, it's easily available. MHI has a lot of expenses, but weapons are relatively cheap and available. That's because it tends to get used. And abused. Lost. Beaten up. Bent into pretzels. Shattered. Dropped into other dimensions. Eaten even.

 

But what if you really like your gun. Let's say you customized it. You got those handles inlaid with pearl from the giant oyster you stopped from rampaging through the Florida keys. Perhaps you want a shotgun named "boomstick" (shop smart...). Or you really care about it and want to make sure it's always with you.

 

In short, you may want to know how to build it out of character points. Or you just want to enter the thing into Hero Designer and want to know how to properly "build" it.

 

Courtesy of some guidance from Steve, here's a quick "how to" on building up /costing one of the weapons listed in MHI, or a variant. It's based on the Equipment guide "how to's" with some extra tweaks or guidelines just for MHI.

 

First - especially for those of you used to the standard equipment, here's a few things that are different (per Steve):

 

1. The STR Minima on the guns in the MHI RPG differ from those in the HSEG and other HERO System products. Because the MHI setting gives me very, very specific benchmarks for characters' STRs, I couldn't use the standard STR Minima (which are set for "typical" campaigns, where the average character STR is higher than it is in the MHI RPG). So I just lowered 'em across the board.

 

2. The guns in the HSEG are a bit more "cinematic" than in the MHI RPG. Following the advice of Larry and my other advisors I tweaked the firearms information for the MHI RPG to make it more "realistic" and up to date. (If I ever do another version of the HSEG, some of that information will be incorporated into the new book, some won't.) MHI fans tend to like "realism" in their guns (as paradoxical as that sometimes is), so I wrote the MHI RPG with that in mind. But the HERO System in general is somewhat more "cinematic" and less concerned with precise rules about how guns "really" work.

 

This impacts what choices and limitations we take, as MHI weapons tend to take more restrictions than more cinematic variants.

 

Here's a list of what options need to be addressed in building the weapon for MHI. Since we want to use an example, we will build the AR-10 that every MHI hunter gets.

 

We start by selecting a new power. Guns are RKA's - Ranged Killing Attacks. It will be listed in HD as "Killing Attack - Ranged". Since guns usually use bullets, it's vs. PD (Physical Damage)

 

We add or subtract levels and pips as needed to get the listed damage. For an AR-10 this would mean "level 2" (2D6) and +1 pip. If you want to cross check the Ammo damage chart, you'll see exactly the same damage and stun modifier for the ammo.

 

At 15 Character Points for every 1d6 Killing Attack, 5 points for a single point of Killing Damage, and 10 points for a half die, this makes our base cost in HD 35 points. At this point, all of our adjustments are "adders" - they modify the base cost of the weapon.

 

Also the expected range is 10m for every point of base cost, so we expect a range of 350 meters - which fits in with the chart. Pretty much all of the ranges for ranged weapons are close enough to the expected baseline that adjustment for range limitations/etc. will not be needed.

 

Now we get into modifiers. They come in two types. Advantages and limitations. While HD makes it easy to add them in any order, from a cost perspective, you first take ( 1+(sum of advantages) ) and multiply it by your base cost to get your ACTIVE POINTS. Then you take your ACTIVE POINTS, and divide it by (1 + [sum of your limitations] ) to get your REAL COST

 

Focus: Firearms are OAFs. (a limitiation modifier at 1) Obvious, and accessible. It is obviously the source of bullets. It can easily be grabbed. By default they're Universal Foci (anyone can use them) unless they have high tech personalization features added which allow the gun to fire only when held by the owner (transmitter ring, fingerprint ID, etc...)

 

With the damage, and focus limitation chosen so far, our base cost is 35, and thus 35 active points, and our REAL COST is 17 (35 / (1 + (1)) ).

 

Apply a strength minimum: For the AR-10 this is 12. This is worth -1/2, but we don't also take "cannot add damage" because this is an inherent feature of RKA's.

 

BEAM: Bullets can't be spread, and only make relatively small 'punctures' in barriers such as walls and doors. (-1/4)

 

So far this makes our REAL COST 13 (35 / (1 + (1 + 0.5 + 0.25)) = 12.72)

 

While MHI guns are far less cinematic than the usual firearms in the Hero system, the MHI rulebook doesn't cover weapons malfunctions and other consequences of "REAL Weapons". If you have the full rules AND want to apply that penalty across the board, then by all means use "real weapons". I don't here.

 

Charges: The good news is that bullets are equipment. They are fairly cheap, especially for the kind of money a monster hunter makes, and often provided by the company. Thus - and Owen Pitts abomination is a perfect example - you will only include the number of "charges" for one clip/magazine. If the weapon is "special" and you're spending CP's, then that one magazine/clip full of ammo will be just as available as the firearm is. Otherwise, as with all equipment - easy come, easy go.

 

Ammo can be picked up whenever you're back at HQ, the nearest stash, the gun shop, etc., as appropriate.

 

You can of course use the "clip" rules on 138 to take a smaller penalty for "limited charges" and get extra clips/magazines to keep with you at all (well, most) times..

 

The AR-10 has a 20-shot capacity with a standard magazine. That's +/- 0

 

Handedness: Since it is a "long arm" - the AR-10 is two handed. (Requires Hands, two. -1/2)

 

Autofire: The AR-10 has the advantage of Autofire (5 shots) at +1/2

 

This gives it an ACTIVE COST of 52 (35 * (1 + 1/2) = 52.5), and a real cost of 16 (52 / (1+ (1+ 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/4 )) = 16)

 

Stun Advantage: Also, the default ammo for the AR-10 gives a +1 stun. (+1/4)

 

Finally, for default gear, the AR-10 has a flash suppressor (Invisible to Normal Sight (+1â„4) to hide muzzle flash from the shooter)

 

Right now, the REAL COST is 21 points.

 

The rifle also has an OCV of +1 and an Rmod of 0.

 

From the equipment guide:

 

Some firearms have bonuses to the user’s OCV, either overall or just to counteract the Range Modifier. This represents guns that

 

are inherently more accurate or easy to aim than average, which are designed for long-distance shooting, or the like. On the other hand,

 

some guns suffer an OCV penalty or an increased Range Modifier; these firearms are not as well made, have features that make them difficult

 

to use, and so forth.

An OCV bonus for a firearm is bought as a 2-point Combat Skill Level with the Limitations OAF, Required Hands, and Real Weapon.

 

Thus, each +1 OCV adds 2 Active Points, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm

 

Before the OCV modification, the AR-10 has an ACTIVE cost of 70, and a real cost of 21. After adding the OCV mod, it has an ACTIVE cost of 72, and a real cost of 22.

 

The AR-10 does not have an Rmod bonus by default, but the applicable rules are:

 

A Range Modifier (RMod) bonus for a firearm is bought as 1-point Penalty Skill Levels versus the Range Group with the Focus, Required Hands, and Real Weapon Limitations. Thus, each +1 RMod adds 1 Active Point, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm.

 

An RMod bonus never raises a character’s base OCV, it can only offset Range Modifier penalties.

 

So if we get a standard, long-arm laser sight (+2 OCV, +14 Rmod) the AR-10 would have an ACTIVE cost of 90 (72, +4 from OCV, +14 Rmod) and a REAL cost of 38.

 

 

(How do we handle a negative OCV/Rmod, say, for the walther PPK/s???? Still not sure how to apply the following rule...)

 

An OCV and/or RMod penalty for a firearm is bought as a minor Side Effect (automatically occurs; -½) for the weapon. (This same

 

value applies until the total penalties on a weapon reach the 30 Active Point level — something that’s highly unlikely to ever occur.) If a

 

gun has both OCV and RMod penalties, it only gets a single Side Effect Limitation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Here's the rough draft:

 

The MHI handbook includes guns. Lots of guns. Lots and lots of guns. Lots... nevermind, you get the point.

 

Most of this is "equipment" - and you get issued an AR-10 and a pistol as part of you induction into MHI (standard per the template). Like most equipment, it's easily available. MHI has a lot of expenses, but weapons are relatively cheap and available. That's because it tends to get used. And abused. Lost. Beaten up. Bent into pretzels. Shattered. Dropped into other dimensions. Eaten even.

 

But what if you really like your gun. Let's say you customized it. You got those handles inlaid with pearl from the giant oyster you stopped from rampaging through the Florida keys. Perhaps you want a shotgun named "boomstick" (shop smart...). Or you really care about it and want to make sure it's always with you.

 

In short, you may want to know how to build it out of character points. Or you just want to enter the thing into Hero Designer and want to know how to properly "build" it.

 

Courtesy of some guidance from Steve, here's a quick "how to" on building up /costing one of the weapons listed in MHI, or a variant. It's based on the Equipment guide "how to's" with some extra tweaks or guidelines just for MHI.

 

First - especially for those of you used to the standard equipment, here's a few things that are different (per Steve):

 

1. The STR Minima on the guns in the MHI RPG differ from those in the HSEG and other HERO System products. Because the MHI setting gives me very, very specific benchmarks for characters' STRs, I couldn't use the standard STR Minima (which are set for "typical" campaigns, where the average character STR is higher than it is in the MHI RPG). So I just lowered 'em across the board.

 

2. The guns in the HSEG are a bit more "cinematic" than in the MHI RPG. Following the advice of Larry and my other advisors I tweaked the firearms information for the MHI RPG to make it more "realistic" and up to date. (If I ever do another version of the HSEG, some of that information will be incorporated into the new book, some won't.) MHI fans tend to like "realism" in their guns (as paradoxical as that sometimes is), so I wrote the MHI RPG with that in mind. But the HERO System in general is somewhat more "cinematic" and less concerned with precise rules about how guns "really" work.

 

This impacts what choices and limitations we take, as MHI weapons tend to take more restrictions than more cinematic variants.

 

Here's a list of what options need to be addressed in building the weapon for MHI. Since we want to use an example, we will build the AR-10 that every MHI hunter gets.

 

We start by selecting a new power. Guns are RKA's - Ranged Killing Attacks. It will be listed in HD as "Killing Attack - Ranged". Since guns usually use bullets, it's vs. PD (Physical Damage)

 

We add or subtract levels and pips as needed to get the listed damage. For an AR-10 this would mean "level 2" (2D6) and +1 pip. If you want to cross check the Ammo damage chart, you'll see exactly the same damage and stun modifier for the ammo.

 

At 15 Character Points for every 1d6 Killing Attack, 5 points for a single point of Killing Damage, and 10 points for a half die, this makes our base cost in HD 35 points. At this point, all of our adjustments are "adders" - they modify the base cost of the weapon.

 

Also the expected range is 10m for every point of base cost, so we expect a range of 350 meters - which fits in with the chart. Pretty much all of the ranges for ranged weapons are close enough to the expected baseline that adjustment for range limitations/etc. will not be needed.

 

Now we get into modifiers. They come in two types. Advantages and limitations. While HD makes it easy to add them in any order, from a cost perspective, you first take ( 1+(sum of advantages) ) and multiply it by your base cost to get your ACTIVE POINTS. Then you take your ACTIVE POINTS, and divide it by (1 + [sum of your limitations] ) to get your REAL COST

 

Focus: Firearms are OAFs. (a limitiation modifier at 1) Obvious, and accessible. It is obviously the source of bullets. It can easily be grabbed. By default they're Universal Foci (anyone can use them) unless they have high tech personalization features added which allow the gun to fire only when held by the owner (transmitter ring, fingerprint ID, etc...)

 

With the damage, and focus limitation chosen so far, our base cost is 35, and thus 35 active points, and our REAL COST is 17 (35 / (1 + (1)) ).

 

Apply a strength minimum: For the AR-10 this is 12. This is worth -1/2, but we don't also take "cannot add damage" because this is an inherent feature of RKA's.

 

BEAM: Bullets can't be spread, and only make relatively small 'punctures' in barriers such as walls and doors. (-1/4)

 

So far this makes our REAL COST 13 (35 / (1 + (1 + 0.5 + 0.25)) = 12.72)

 

While MHI guns are far less cinematic than the usual firearms in the Hero system, the MHI rulebook doesn't cover weapons malfunctions and other consequences of "REAL Weapons". If you have the full rules AND want to apply that penalty across the board, then by all means use "real weapons". I don't here.

 

Charges: The good news is that bullets are equipment. They are fairly cheap, especially for the kind of money a monster hunter makes, and often provided by the company. Thus - and Owen Pitts abomination is a perfect example - you will only include the number of "charges" for one clip/magazine. If the weapon is "special" and you're spending CP's, then that one magazine/clip full of ammo will be just as available as the firearm is. Otherwise, as with all equipment - easy come, easy go.

 

Ammo can be picked up whenever you're back at HQ, the nearest stash, the gun shop, etc., as appropriate.

 

You can of course use the "clip" rules on 138 to take a smaller penalty for "limited charges" and get extra clips/magazines to keep with you at all (well, most) times..

 

The AR-10 has a 20-shot capacity with a standard magazine. That's +/- 0

 

Handedness: Since it is a "long arm" - the AR-10 is two handed. (Requires Hands, two. -1/2)

 

Autofire: The AR-10 has the advantage of Autofire (5 shots) at +1/2

 

This gives it an ACTIVE COST of 52 (35 * (1 + 1/2) = 52.5), and a real cost of 16 (52 / (1+ (1+ 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/4 )) = 16)

 

Stun Advantage: Also, the default ammo for the AR-10 gives a +1 stun. (+1/4)

 

Finally, for default gear, the AR-10 has a flash suppressor (Invisible to Normal Sight (+1â„4) to hide muzzle flash from the shooter)

 

Right now, the REAL COST is 21 points.

 

The rifle also has an OCV of +1 and an Rmod of 0.

 

From the equipment guide:

 

Some firearms have bonuses to the user’s OCV, either overall or just to counteract the Range Modifier. This represents guns that

 

are inherently more accurate or easy to aim than average, which are designed for long-distance shooting, or the like. On the other hand,

 

some guns suffer an OCV penalty or an increased Range Modifier; these firearms are not as well made, have features that make them difficult

 

to use, and so forth.

An OCV bonus for a firearm is bought as a 2-point Combat Skill Level with the Limitations OAF, Required Hands, and Real Weapon.

 

Thus, each +1 OCV adds 2 Active Points, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm

 

Before the OCV modification, the AR-10 has an ACTIVE cost of 70, and a real cost of 21. After adding the OCV mod, it has an ACTIVE cost of 72, and a real cost of 22.

 

The AR-10 does not have an Rmod bonus by default, but the applicable rules are:

 

A Range Modifier (RMod) bonus for a firearm is bought as 1-point Penalty Skill Levels versus the Range Group with the Focus, Required Hands, and Real Weapon Limitations. Thus, each +1 RMod adds 1 Active Point, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm.

 

An RMod bonus never raises a character’s base OCV, it can only offset Range Modifier penalties.

 

So if we get a standard, long-arm laser sight (+2 OCV, +14 Rmod) the AR-10 would have an ACTIVE cost of 90 (72, +4 from OCV, +14 Rmod) and a REAL cost of 38.

 

 

(How do we handle a negative OCV/Rmod, say, for the walther PPK/s???? Still not sure how to apply the following rule...)

 

An OCV and/or RMod penalty for a firearm is bought as a minor Side Effect (automatically occurs; -½) for the weapon. (This same

 

value applies until the total penalties on a weapon reach the 30 Active Point level — something that’s highly unlikely to ever occur.) If a

 

gun has both OCV and RMod penalties, it only gets a single Side Effect Limitation.

 

 

 

 

 

One major critique. Why do you explain how to find the Active Point Cost, then the Real Point cost, then in your example you go into detail of Limitation and RC before Advantages and AP? It just seems completely backwards from what you just outlined above it.

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As long as you're not modifying a standard weapon or equipment for that weapon, and you don't fit into the group of folks who "really care about it and want to make sure it's always with you", am I correct in assuming that characters in MHI will just buy their weapons as for a standard heroic campaign?

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Earlkirk - You would be correct as far as that goes. It's just "equipment" - easy come and easy go - and as I noted earlier, far, FAR easier to just not worry about it and write the relevant weapon stats down by hadn't than try to figure out how to gin them up in HD.

 

Part of this was I rally wanted to learn the system for construction against a known baseline, and part of it was I really wanted to be able to simply drop in the weapons via HD - which means creating them in HD. Which means understanding what limitations/factors were employed for building the weapons in the MHI book. Less critical if it's just equipment and not a "power" - but if I'm going to make sure I get all the relevant limitations and advantages, I may as well make sure I cover stuff that affects points in case of a custom build.

 

Bigby - probably because I went through the list of standard modifiers for firearms in roughly the same order as presented by Steve for "generic" firearms that all of them have to address (focus, beam, minimum strength, and to a degree, handedness) before applying the specific mods for the individual weapon and calibre (like auto fire, flash suppressors, laser sights, etc) - sortof a "ALWAYS check these, then look at these other features" order.

 

If the math/choices are sound, I may re-order it a bit. Doesn't make much difference as long as you keep track of the math, and knowing a "gut level" cost for a general weapon gives me a good idea of what kind of budget I need available to purchase one via powers.

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Thank you so much for doing something I'd like done but wasn't going to take the time to do myself! So, it looks like to convert guns from Hero System Equipment Guide (HSEG) to Monster Hunter International (MHI) rules, I just need to change the STR Min value and drop the Real Weapon limitation?

 

Or personally, my preference would be to change the STR Min value but keep the Real Weapon limitation and import the jam/malfunction rules into my MHI game.

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Earlkirk - You would be correct as far as that goes. It's just "equipment" - easy come and easy go - and as I noted earlier, far, FAR easier to just not worry about it and write the relevant weapon stats down by hadn't than try to figure out how to gin them up in HD.

 

Part of this was I rally wanted to learn the system for construction against a known baseline, and part of it was I really wanted to be able to simply drop in the weapons via HD - which means creating them in HD. Which means understanding what limitations/factors were employed for building the weapons in the MHI book. Less critical if it's just equipment and not a "power" - but if I'm going to make sure I get all the relevant limitations and advantages, I may as well make sure I cover stuff that affects points in case of a custom build.

 

Bigby - probably because I went through the list of standard modifiers for firearms in roughly the same order as presented by Steve for "generic" firearms that all of them have to address (focus, beam, minimum strength, and to a degree, handedness) before applying the specific mods for the individual weapon and calibre (like auto fire, flash suppressors, laser sights, etc) - sortof a "ALWAYS check these, then look at these other features" order.

 

If the math/choices are sound, I may re-order it a bit. Doesn't make much difference as long as you keep track of the math, and knowing a "gut level" cost for a general weapon gives me a good idea of what kind of budget I need available to purchase one via powers.

"Check these"? What does that mean? Are you assuming HD is being used? Or is that supposed to mean make sure you include those specific Modifiers? Or something else?

The common modifiers for most firearms are Limitations but for someone doing this by hand listing all the Limitations before the Advantages is counterintuitive and blatantly ignores the summary you presented just before going into the example.

 

How about putting a list of Modifiers common to all/most firearms seperaty instead of disrupting the example with constant adjustments (now the RP is x because we changed the AC on every step)?

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Earlkirk - You would be correct as far as that goes. It's just "equipment" - easy come and easy go - and as I noted earlier, far, FAR easier to just not worry about it and write the relevant weapon stats down by hadn't than try to figure out how to gin them up in HD.

 

Part of this was I rally wanted to learn the system for construction against a known baseline, and part of it was I really wanted to be able to simply drop in the weapons via HD - which means creating them in HD. Which means understanding what limitations/factors were employed for building the weapons in the MHI book. Less critical if it's just equipment and not a "power" - but if I'm going to make sure I get all the relevant limitations and advantages, I may as well make sure I cover stuff that affects points in case of a custom build.

 

Bigby - probably because I went through the list of standard modifiers for firearms in roughly the same order as presented by Steve for "generic" firearms that all of them have to address (focus, beam, minimum strength, and to a degree, handedness) before applying the specific mods for the individual weapon and calibre (like auto fire, flash suppressors, laser sights, etc) - sortof a "ALWAYS check these, then look at these other features" order.

 

If the math/choices are sound, I may re-order it a bit. Doesn't make much difference as long as you keep track of the math, and knowing a "gut level" cost for a general weapon gives me a good idea of what kind of budget I need available to purchase one via powers.

I should explain my concern. For good or ill Hero system has a reputation of being "overly complicated" and MHI is bringing in at least some new blood. So examples should be as straight forward as possible and mixing up the order of events just isn't particularly helpful for a new player. Your example, at first glance, makes the process look like it has twice as many steps as it actually does.

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BigbyWolfe - I understand. Trust me. Getting my head wrapped around this I'm discovering tha there are things that are much simpler than I first assumed - especially compared to GURPS, and others that I'm actually making it harder on myself.

 

a) It's a first draft, done as I created the weapon in HD, and whether or not I take a specific recommendation, the point that I should really, REALLY sequence this in the same order as the construction rules, as base cost first, then advantages, THEN limitations - and group them accordingly, is well taken. Keep in mind also that my mental model of the construction flow as I wrote the draft was "damage -> generic gun features (focus, beam, etc.) -> specific features (handedness, auto fire) of a stock weapon -> accessories".

 

Given how many accessories you can add to a stock weapon after the fact, and that accessories are usually advantages... well, that does tend to throw the math on its head if you're modifying one.

 

I'll be revising this for clarity, and reposting it.

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BigbyWolfe - I understand. Trust me. Getting my head wrapped around this I'm discovering tha there are things that are much simpler than I first assumed - especially compared to GURPS, and others that I'm actually making it harder on myself.

 

a) It's a first draft, done as I created the weapon in HD, and whether or not I take a specific recommendation, the point that I should really, REALLY sequence this in the same order as the construction rules, as base cost first, then advantages, THEN limitations - and group them accordingly, is well taken. Keep in mind also that my mental model of the construction flow as I wrote the draft was "damage -> generic gun features (focus, beam, etc.) -> specific features (handedness, auto fire) of a stock weapon -> accessories".

 

Given how many accessories you can add to a stock weapon after the fact, and that accessories are usually advantages... well, that does tend to throw the math on its head if you're modifying one.

 

I'll be revising this for clarity, and reposting it.

Cool. Hopefully I'm not coming off as hypercritical here. Overall you did a great job. More concise than I would have been. It's just the one thing that felt "off" to me, though I understand why you chose the order you did.

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Here's the revised draft. I kept all the standard stuff in a chunk, but later in the flow, referenced the rules pages, fixed a screwup on the cost of charges and addressed the weirdness where charges can suddenly become an advantage as part of resequencing it. Definitely needs an edit for wordiness.

 

 

 

 

The MHI handbook includes guns. Lots of guns. Lots and lots of guns. Lots... nevermind, you get the point.

 

Most of this is "equipment" - and you get issued an AR-10 and a pistol as part of you induction into MHI (standard per the template). Like most equipment, it's easily available. MHI has a lot of expenses, but weapons are relatively cheap and available. That's because it tends to get used. And abused. Lost. Beaten up. Bent into pretzels. Shattered. Dropped into other dimensions. Eaten even.

 

But what if you really like your gun. Let's say you customized it. You got those handles inlaid with pearl from the giant oyster you stopped from rampaging through the Florida keys. Perhaps you want a shotgun named "boomstick" (shop smart...). Or you really care about it and want to make sure it's always with you.

 

In short, you may want to know how to build it out of character points. Or you just want to enter the thing into Hero Designer and want to know how to properly "build" it.

 

Courtesy of some guidance from Steve, here's a quick "how to" on building up /costing one of the weapons listed in MHI, or a variant. It's based on the Equipment guide "how to's" with some extra tweaks or guidelines just for MHI.

 

First - especially for those of you used to the standard equipment, here's a few things that are different (per Steve):

1. The STR Minima on the guns in the MHI RPG differ from those in the HSEG and other HERO System products. Because the MHI setting gives me very, very specific benchmarks for characters' STRs, I couldn't use the standard STR Minima (which are set for "typical" campaigns, where the average character STR is higher than it is in the MHI RPG). So I just lowered 'em across the board.

 

2. The guns in the HSEG are a bit more "cinematic" than in the MHI RPG. Following the advice of Larry and my other advisors I tweaked the firearms information for the MHI RPG to make it more "realistic" and up to date. (If I ever do another version of the HSEG, some of that information will be incorporated into the new book, some won't.) MHI fans tend to like "realism" in their guns (as paradoxical as that sometimes is), so I wrote the MHI RPG with that in mind. But the HERO System in general is somewhat more "cinematic" and less concerned with precise rules about how guns "really" work.

This impacts what choices and limitations we take, as MHI weapons tend to take more restrictions than more cinematic variants.

 

Since we want to use an example, we will build the "stock" AR-10 that every MHI hunter gets, listed on page 149 of the MHIEG.

 

In the core rules, you typically get the base cost of the power - then adjust for advantages, then for disadvantages. We also have factors that every firearm in MHI - generic or not - need to apply.

 

Base Cost

 

We start by selecting a new power. Guns are RKA's - Ranged Killing Attacks (listed in HD as "Killing Attack - Ranged"). Since guns usually use bullets, it's vs. PD (Physical Damage)

 

To get the base cost of this power, we need to look at the damage column and add levels and pips as needed to get the listed damage. For an AR-10 this would mean "level 2" (2D6) and +1 pip. At 15 Character Points for every 1d6 Killing Attack, 5 points for a single point of Killing Damage, and 10 points for a half die, this makes our base cost in HD 35 points.

 

Also the expected range is 10m for every point of base cost, so we expect a range of 350 meters - which fits in with the stats listed for the AR-10 in the chart. Pretty much all of the ranges for ranged weapons are close enough to the expected baseline that adjustment for range limitations/etc. will not be needed.

 

So tha base cost is 35 points.

 

Now we get into modifiers. They come in two types. Advantages and limitations. While HD makes it easy to add them in any order, from a cost perspective, you first take ( 1+(sum of advantages) ) and multiply it by your base cost to get your ACTIVE POINTS. Then you take your ACTIVE POINTS, and divide it by (1 + [sum of your limitations] ) to get your REAL COST.

 

Advantages

 

Most of the generic checklist of features are limitations. We'll address those later. First, let us look at the stat line for the AR-10, and pick out the advantages.

 

The AR-10 has autofire (5 shots) listed as AF5. This is a +1/2 advantage.

 

The AR-10 als has a stun advantage of +1 stun. This is worth +1/4

 

Finally, a stock AR-10 has a flash suppressor (Invisible to Normal Sight (+1â„4) to hide muzzle flash from the shooter)

 

This makes the number of active points equal to (35 x (1 + 1/2 + 1/4 +1/4)) or (35 x 2), thus 70.

 

Limitations

 

Most of the limitations are standard for all weapons (and two-handedness, for all long arms).

 

Charges: The good news is that bullets are equipment. They are fairly cheap, especially for the kind of money a monster hunter makes, and often provided by the company. Also - with charges, you don't pay endurance to use this "power" or equipment. Thus - and Owen Pitts abomination is a perfect example - you will only include the number of "charges" for one clip/magazine. If the weapon is "special" and you're spending CP's, then that one magazine/clip full of ammo will be just as available as the firearm is. Otherwise, as with all equipment - easy come, easy go.

 

The bad news is that, as a monster hunter, you will tend to use a LOT of ammo. Granted, ammo can be picked up whenever you're back at HQ, the nearest stash, the gun shop, etc., as appropriate, but in teh middle of abandoned tunnels, or deep, dark jungle... not so much.

 

You can of course use the "clip" rules on 138 to take a smaller penalty for "limited charges" and get extra clips/magazines to keep with you at all (well, most) times..

 

A complicating point is that if you have a LOT of charges (a large clip), this can actually become an advantage.

 

The AR-10 has a 20-shot capacity with a standard magazine. Per the chart on page 137 that's actually a +1/4 pont advantage. We will have to recalculate the Active Points before calculating the real cost after the rest of the limitations.

 

Focus: Firearms are OAFs. (a limitiation modifier at -1) Obvious, and accessible. It is obviously the source of bullets. It can easily be grabbed. By default they're Universal Foci (anyone can use them) unless they have high tech personalization features added which allow the gun to fire only when held by the owner (transmitter ring, fingerprint ID, etc...)

 

Strength minimum: For the AR-10 this is 12. This is worth -1/2, but we don't also take "cannot add damage" because this is an inherent feature of RKA's.

 

BEAM: Bullets can't be spread, and only make relatively small 'punctures' in barriers such as walls and doors. (-1/4)

 

While MHI guns are far less cinematic than the usual firearms in the Hero system, the MHI rulebook doesn't cover weapons malfunctions and other consequences of "REAL Weapons". If you have the full rules AND want to apply that penalty across the board, then by all means use "real weapons". I don't here.

 

Handedness: Since it is a "long arm" - the AR-10 is two handed. (Requires Hands, two. -1/2)

 

All of these are standard for weapons - with two-handed operation being standard for "Long Arms" like rifles and shotguns.

 

So, we originally had an Active Point cost of 70, but it turns out having a large magazine turned a limitation into an advantage. So, to recalculate:

 

Base Cost: 35

 

We multiply this by:

 

1 plus

1/2 for autofire

1/4 for stun

1/4 for the flash suppressor and

1/4 for the magazine size

 

or: (35 x (1 + 1/2 + 1/4 +1/4 + 1/4)) or (35 x 2.25), thus 78.75, rounded up to 79 Active Points.

 

 

We now have an Active Point cost of 79. To get the Real Cost, we need to take the Active Point cost, and divide it by (1 + the sum of the limitations) (70 / ( 1+ ( 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/2 ))) or (79 / 3.25) or 24.31, rounded down to 24.

 

So our weapon, so far, costs 79 active points, and 24 real points. There are still two stats we have not accounted for: OCV and Rmod.

 

 

Modifications to OCV and Rmod

 

The stock AR-10 also has an OCV of +1 and an Rmod of 0.

 

From the equipment guide:

Some firearms have bonuses to the user's OCV, either overall or just to counteract the Range Modifier. This represents guns that are inherently more accurate or easy to aim than average, which are designed for long-distance shooting, or the like. On the other hand, some guns suffer an OCV penalty or an increased Range Modifier; these firearms are not as well made, have features that make them difficult to use, and so forth.

 

An OCV bonus for a firearm is bought as a 2-point Combat Skill Level with the Limitations OAF, Required Hands, and Real Weapon.

 

Thus, each +1 OCV adds 2 Active Points, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm

Before the OCV modification, the AR-10 has an ACTIVE cost of 79, and a real cost of 24. After adding the OCV mod, it has an ACTIVE cost of 81, and a real cost of 25.

 

The AR-10 does not have an Rmod bonus by default - so we're done, and a Stock AR-10 has an ACTIVE cost of 81, and a real cost of 25.

 

Some weapons have an Rod modiier, and many accessories you can add affect this as well. So what happens when we add a laser sight to our AR-10?

 

The applicable rules are:

A Range Modifier (RMod) bonus for a firearm is bought as 1-point Penalty Skill Levels versus the Range Group with the Focus, Required Hands, and Real Weapon Limitations. Thus, each +1 RMod adds 1 Active Point, 1 Real Point to the cost of a firearm.

 

An RMod bonus never raises a character's base OCV, it can only offset Range Modifier penalties.

The standard, long-arm laser sight has a modifier of +2 OCV, +14 Rmod. If we add this the AR-10 would have an ACTIVE cost of 99 (81, +4 from OCV, +14 Rmod) and a REAL cost of 41 (25, +2 from OCV, +14 Rmod).

 

 

I'm still not sure how to apply the following rules for a negative OCV/Rmod penalty, such as for the Walther PPK...

 

 

An OCV and/or RMod penalty for a firearm is bought as a minor Side Effect (automatically occurs; -½) for the weapon. (This same value applies until the total penalties on a weapon reach the 30 Active Point level - something that's highly unlikely to ever occur.) If a gun has both OCV and RMod penalties, it only gets a single Side Effect Limitation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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When I add weapons to a character in Hero Designer, I just tend to use Custom Power and enter the stats for the gun. I see no need to reinvent the wheel by building it from scratch.

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Thank you. That definitely addresses one issue for me - how to quickly add stats for something that already exists and doesn't need further modification or tracking of power costs - as I'm still learning HD as well. Of course, POWER costs for stuff in the MHI handbook are non-existent, so when it comes to properly customizing or personalizing non "equipment" weapons bought as powers, or developing something from scratch, that doesn't help quite so much.

 

As to why I'm figuring out build it from scratch? Maybe I do want my "Boomstick" with the pearl inlaid stock, custom grips, and laser sight. :). I'm also new to the system and trying to learn how to use it to make stuff up within the framework.

 

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When I add weapons to a character in Hero Designer, I just tend to use Custom Power and enter the stats for the gun. I see no need to reinvent the wheel by building it from scratch.
I would consider it "putting it on the character sheet', not "building it from scratch". I mean, do you use Custom Power for every super power that already has an official write-up in the books?

 

Now, using a Custom Power for everything in the book, meaning if you ever want to modify if you need to look it up again (or have it memorized), instead of having the actual build on your sheet, THAT sounds like "building it from scratch".

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When I add weapons to a character in Hero Designer, I just tend to use Custom Power and enter the stats for the gun. I see no need to reinvent the wheel by building it from scratch.
You're right if you're going to be modifying a piece of equipment. But I was more thinking of the case where the character uses standard weaponry and you just want to have quick access to the stats. For example, if my character uses a Glock 34 semi-automatic pistol, do I really need the full Hero build on my character sheet or just the stats? Now if I was creating a modified version of the gun then yeah, I'd probably include the fully written up version -- although I still might just want the updated stats on my character sheet. So, I might hide the actual write-up with a custom export template -- although it would still be available in the HD file to be modified.

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